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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4161 - 2014-10-02 20:39:24 UTC
Janus Nanzikambe wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


Please please put whomever put the "expel from corp" button next to "expel from fleet" in charge of this!
And make sure the default spawn a point in space about 12km off gate in Tama inline with the highsec gate.

Consider it expectations management and a loud HTFU as an introduction to the cruel beauty that is New Eden.
Pirate



Also, give them a mandatory 2500 year timer for jumping a gate.
Jerf Foo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4162 - 2014-10-02 20:39:29 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


I saw this idea on how to handle med clones in the Reddit forum, and thought it was REALLY good. Here's the copy and paste.

"Regarding medical clones - maybe a spool up to move them would be better than no movement at all? Say, it takes 12 hours to securely send the brain-scan information station to station, but if you're there you can do it immediately as they just make their own scan of you. Makes lore sense."

LINK, because I don't wanna take the credit for the idea: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2i06zw/dev_blog_longdistance_travel_changes_inbound_ccp/ckxn8ku

I think this is great. Newbros can still join and get to corporations that are in spooky space. You can't abuse it to suddenly defend/attack SOV space because once you pick a destination you have to wait 12 hours for the "processing period." It's a much cleaner and simpler way to handle it then the awkward and arbitrary rule set CCP Greyscale proposed.
Brittney Calm
Escape from Darkness
#4163 - 2014-10-02 20:39:30 UTC
TerminalSamurai Sunji wrote:
Capqu wrote:
hey as part of the death clone thing

could you make it so people with level 5 skills can create the skill book for that skill at a cost of npc price +50% or something? often times newbies will pod to their school stations to inject skills, would b cool if noobs still had easy access to skills in null by getting them from a vet or something


Dunno if I support the exact idea, but making skills a non NPC seeded item as this point in time would be cool. I do agree that not being able to find skills anywhere besides certain systems is an issue, I've podded myself more than once in a Wh to go get skills because it's easier.



WAIT!!!! capitals and super capitals incursions now goons have something to do with there super fleet... no more cyno jammed incursion systems!!!...

lolz

-BC
Shen Hiryuu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4164 - 2014-10-02 20:39:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Shen Hiryuu
FFS no, just f***ing NO. Moving supplies in and out of null will become a major pain in the butt. If you're talking that the range will be nerfed to hell it will take more cynos to accomplish the same thing.. waiting for more timers to cycle... needing a whole nother account for more cyno alts.. or taking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer to use the single cyno guy as he's now got to cycle his 10 minute timer, get to the next cyno point.. rinse and repeat.

Having to spend hours cyno'ing isnt anyone's idea of fun.

Bad idea is bad CCP...

edit: not to mention... are you going to undo that godawful increase in fuel consumption? higher costs + more jumps = wtf.
Dessa DesPlains
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4165 - 2014-10-02 20:39:58 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
The abolition of podjumping makes it massively difficult for our newbies to join us in Deklein. Has any thought been put into that?


Yeah. They probably thought about it, and realized that 'Warp to Zero' and 'Jump' activated on enough gates in sequence gets your newbies there just as effectively.

Either they, or more likely you, did not actually put any thought into this response and should be embarrassed it was made. A newbie can't deal with bubblecamps that are standard for highsec/null connections.


Get a gang together, we need to go escort some noobs back here.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4166 - 2014-10-02 20:41:22 UTC
Doral Reinert wrote:
How is jump fatigue going to make thins any different when the larger alliance can just make a chain of titans to bridge them?


I'm pretty sure that since you are using a jump portal, the individual pilots getting bridged will get fatigue.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#4167 - 2014-10-02 20:41:47 UTC
Rarnak Ki wrote:
One big problem is that these changes have the unintended consequence of nerfing multiple jumps over short ranges, say back and forth between two nearby systems. That has nothing to do with force projection and yet will still incur the same penalties as jumping all the way across the universe.


Two jumps (back and forth) gives you a few hours of fatigue.

How often do you plan to jump back and forth?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#4168 - 2014-10-02 20:42:02 UTC
Doral Reinert wrote:
Here is an easier fix for sov IMO. Simply limit the number of systems and alliance can hold .


*face palms*

and here is how I break this idea. I am now mittens, this idea goes into effect, I take each of my alts on however many accounts I have and I make different holding corps. I then make differend alliances, Goonswarm B, C, D etc. I then have some memebrs of goons jump into B, C, D. I use the tools that goons already has in place, make a new 'alliance channel' make it mandatory for every member of any goon alliance into this channel, then I divide up my space among my new alt alliances. Each alt alliance is controlled by the GS high command. They are all Goons, just with different names. I now still hold the exact same amount of space I did, all my alliances are blue to eachother. you fix has changed nothing.

Good job on the crappy idea.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Dalia Rensini
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4169 - 2014-10-02 20:42:15 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
Suzuka A1 wrote:
[quote=CCP Greyscale]


CCP is now worse than Goonswarm.


A goon bootlicker is saying THAT!? See another indicator CCP is on point with those changes! GOGO CCP!



mhmm... and how is this anyhow a reasonable comment


Seriously, please do understand that making people wait in front of a computer screen for a timer to tick down is not

''Playing a game''

it is torture / job / a chore / cleaning toilets / unpleasant experience

So if that is what you desire for the future of Eve Online please do us all reasonable people a big favour and go fcuk yourselfie
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4170 - 2014-10-02 20:42:20 UTC
Falkor1984 wrote:
[IF this is the case, which I don't expect, but let's for arguments sake say it is, CCP should still be able to solve this problem in another way. Adding boredom does nothing good for a game.

Also, when I think further on this matter: this change kind of robs the players of an endgame. I can still remember getting my first bs, capital and supercapital. With this change caps and supercaps become kind of obsolete. What do new players have to look forward too then? Ships that are worthless/no fun to fly?

1. Just because you don't like the solution, doesn't mean it's not a solution to the problem they're looking to solve. None of the changes as written introduce boredom IMO. If you choose to sit on your hands waiting all the time rather than using the mechanics available - you know, gates - then that's your own fault, not CCP's.

2. This is a sandbox. There is no predefined endgame.

3. If you want to fly bigger and bigger ships with shinier and shinier mods (because PURPLE!) then go right ahead. If that's how you define your endgame, there's noone stopping you from doing it. If, on the other hand, you feel that entitles you to mapwide instant gratification, well... that I have an issue with.

4. Supers and Titans will still have a role. Invulnerable hotdropo'clock mobiles won't be it - but they will have a role. Inventive players (which may or may not include you) can probably find all kinds of ways to use them effectively. Like, say, notice they have Clone Vats and SMAs.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#4171 - 2014-10-02 20:42:38 UTC
I like the idea of cooling down after a jump, but fatigue and a cool down timer, and reduced range is just stupid. I see this having terrible effects on the market.

Caps can use stargates now, but with the previous warp changes youd be best served by a 4 hour nap, because thats exactly how long youll be in warp.

You want to facilitate smaller cap fights, good. make it a bit easier to fight against the big guys, good. but your just screwing with everyone. BTW, would be nice if you could add an interface or display that allows people to actually know how far the systems are.

also, 5ly seems too short.

I understand being able to go from one side of the galaxy to the other in 15-20minutes is ridiculous, but making the trip 12 hours......... its a game, calm down.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#4172 - 2014-10-02 20:42:47 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
Rarnak Ki wrote:

Then think about how this affects small corps running pos based industry in quiet areas of low sec that are not even going to have the man power any more to make the jf jumps required to manage the business.

Jumps are the least of their concerns. They will all be nuked by fleets of 200 dreadnaughts for the lulz. Better start buying up modules now, because the price of -everything- is going up. Highsec just got a lot smaller.


Why isn't it happening now then.

But yea, NPSI will be more fun.
Sheeana Harb
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4173 - 2014-10-02 20:43:06 UTC
Bjor Ambramotte wrote:
@CCP Greyscale

You said earlier that fatigue modifiers were already possible in the code but I think a ton of people would be happy with a sliding scale based on ship sizes with a few special case exceptions:

0.10 : JF, Rorqual, Blockade Runner
0.20 : Frigate, Noob Ships
0.25 : Blackops BS, Cloaky Recons, Cloak Sub t3 (maybe start all Cloaky ships higher (.4?) and have a ~7.5% reduction by skill level in Recon, t3 offensive, blops skill)
0.30 : Destroyers
0.40 : Cruiser, Non-Cloaky T3
0.50 : Battlecruiser
0.70 : Battleship, Freighter
0.85 : Carrier
0.90 : Dread
1.00 : Super
1.10 : Titan

This would make it easy to quickly get your frigates deployed, then cruisers, then then fights would escalate progressively. That said, if you live close and can get your heavy ships in quickly you'll likely hold the field. Also, a sliding scale could work to stratify Carriers, Dreads, Supers, Titans and promote natural fight escalations.


This idea would encourage both sides to 'flood' the battlefield with as many small ships as possible, rather than making pick to counter your enemy. Don't get me wrong, having more pilots on the battlefield is a valid tactic, but I'm not sure that's what CCP is aiming for.
Unified jump fatigue is better because it doesn't discriminate. Jump Freighters are an expection because without them null-sec industry will fall apart.
Grave Digger Eriker
Doomheim
#4174 - 2014-10-02 20:44:17 UTC
Jerf Foo wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


I saw this idea on how to handle med clones in the Reddit forum, and thought it was REALLY good. Here's the copy and paste.

"Regarding medical clones - maybe a spool up to move them would be better than no movement at all? Say, it takes 12 hours to securely send the brain-scan information station to station, but if you're there you can do it immediately as they just make their own scan of you. Makes lore sense."

LINK, because I don't wanna take the credit for the idea: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2i06zw/dev_blog_longdistance_travel_changes_inbound_ccp/ckxn8ku

I think this is great. Newbros can still join and get to corporations that are in spooky space. You can't abuse it to suddenly defend/attack SOV space because once you pick a destination you have to wait 12 hours for the "processing period." It's a much cleaner and simpler way to handle it then the awkward and arbitrary rule set CCP Greyscale proposed.
Alot better than the CCP suggestion and fits in lore-wise. This is something CCP should have looked at.
Iece Quaan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4175 - 2014-10-02 20:44:17 UTC
There is nothing I would like more than a series of changes that help break up the blocs.

But there's nothing I see here that will do that. So there's nothing here that will make me resub my alts and log them in. Why would I start playing again when the game is more work than it was when I stopped?
Kalissis
#4176 - 2014-10-02 20:45:07 UTC
Dalia Rensini wrote:
Kalissis wrote:
Suzuka A1 wrote:
[quote=CCP Greyscale]


CCP is now worse than Goonswarm.


A goon bootlicker is saying THAT!? See another indicator CCP is on point with those changes! GOGO CCP!



mhmm... and how is this anyhow a reasonable comment


Seriously, please do understand that making people wait in front of a computer screen for a timer to tick down is not

''Playing a game''

it is torture / job / a chore / cleaning toilets / unpleasant experience

So if that is what you desire for the future of Eve Online please do us all reasonable people a big favour and go **** yourselfie



See its not how you should play EVE, currently thausends of players are waiting in stations spinning ships, just to hear later "we are standing down".

You will not need to wait, take your fleet go out and fight, no need to wait for anything, no "blue balls", no nothing, just good old fun!
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4177 - 2014-10-02 20:45:13 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Flaming Forum Spammer wrote:
F* realism... it's why we don't have newtonian physics.


Ok, but that would really slow you down. Nothing can go faster than the speed of light. Nothing.


light can go faster then light stuck in a gravity well.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#4178 - 2014-10-02 20:45:36 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

An incremental change like that, followed by a Development pause, and then additional Public Discussion/ Iteration/ and planning is far less 'burn it with fire' than this proposal.

This is an incremental change. They've already said there will be more done down the road to work towards some murky unexplained goal. In CCP We Trust. *shrugs*

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4179 - 2014-10-02 20:45:41 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
Rarnak Ki wrote:
One big problem is that these changes have the unintended consequence of nerfing multiple jumps over short ranges, say back and forth between two nearby systems. That has nothing to do with force projection and yet will still incur the same penalties as jumping all the way across the universe.


Two jumps (back and forth) gives you a few hours of fatigue.

How often do you plan to jump back and forth?


Jump to the target system; kill target; jump out to your staging system.

There you go, two jumps "back and forth". Roll
Endo Saissore
Afterburners of Eve'il Inc.
#4180 - 2014-10-02 20:45:52 UTC
Iece Quaan wrote:
If there is an optimal jump frequency that you've calculated as being the best for the fatigue curve..

I don't see why you wouldn't just set a static jump cooldown timer to that value and just call it a day.

Why use this insane system where people can lock their characters for 30 days? As a penalty for playing your game? In what world does this make sense?



If you lock your character for thirty days then you are doing it on purpose or you don't understand how to properly jump. If you wait out the jump fatigue after every single jump then you can do the jumps in the devblog example in under 14 hourssss!!!!!

So again, if you reach the limit then you deserve it