These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kalissis
#4101 - 2014-10-02 20:10:02 UTC
Terranid Meester wrote:
bp920091 wrote:
Congratulations CCP, you've made Stain and just about every single NPC 0.0 region uninhabitable.

Good job, I couldnt have created a faster way to kill smaller groups if i tried.


Enjoy living in Stain AAA 07


You have no idea how to run logistics and the guy before you too, Stain can manage easely by using BHs. Some of em are doing this for years! AAA will get back their space once this is live, mark my words.
Flaming Forum Spammer
Doomheim
#4102 - 2014-10-02 20:10:17 UTC


Eliminate the fatigue on characters entirely in favor of the jump drive delay based on range of jump. Longer the jump, longer the delay. "Travel Fits" with max cap recharge will be unnecessary as the drive is its own system not dependent on capacitor. Jump Drive rapidly recharges via sun before the timer is up, when timer is up... Jump Jump Jump... at least keeps fleets together. Dramatically reduce the Isotopes needed.

Eliminate the need for cynos for travel... you eventually want us settling a new galaxy, so dump them except for pin-point accurate drops. Capital should jump to random point in system for travel/exploration with a residual jump beacon instead of a cyno. Spreads a fleet out when traveling long distances so to minimize risk of entire fleet being caught by hostiles.

If capitals must resort to running gates due to fatigue, then let that reduce the fatigue. If someone goes through 10 gates in a cap, all fatigue removed so they can jump again. Just balance the damn system.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#4103 - 2014-10-02 20:10:29 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on.


ROFLMAO

Keep thinking that.



You dont know me well. I was the one who spearheaded the movement to keep 3 fighter per carrier level on super carriers.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#4104 - 2014-10-02 20:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
thinking about it some more
i think ceptors should lose bubble immunity in this new eve, otherwise they are just too format warping

and i say this as someone who flys a **** load of ceptors

goes against making eve more localized, having the fastest aligning and warping ships also be immune to being stopped

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Rarnak Ki
Twilight Hour Industries
Barely-Legal
#4105 - 2014-10-02 20:11:26 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Rarnak Ki wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Rarnak Ki wrote:
One big problem is that these changes have the unintended consequence of nerfing multiple jumps over short ranges, say back and forth between two nearby systems. That has nothing to do with force projection and yet will still incur the same penalties as jumping all the way across the universe.


protip... use the stargates for short range trips.

a nano fit niddy can get up to 6.5 AU per second...



Except that using gates is suicide unless you are in a fleet. Sorry, I am not jumping my jump freighter repeatedly through low sec gates. That would just be idiotic. The ability to use a jump drive to move large amounts and high value goods is essential to this game.


man you can blind jump ships threw 0.0 today and not die... I did this a month ago in a non fit Domi just for the lolz in stain went 40 jump without seing a soul.

All this means is you will have to use a scout instead of a cyno alt... and keep an eye out for known blops and you will be fine...



Except that I am not talking about jumping through back-end null sec systems. I am talking about shipping goods from Jita into low/null sec. Tell me how many of those entry points aren't regularly camped to the point that even a mid-size fleet escorting a jf would have trouble breaking through? That takes an activity that right now has virtually zero risk (as it should for spending 7 bil on a jf) and only modest amounts of time, to an activity that has almost zero chance of success (using gates) or the alternative: cyno jumping which now is going to take ages to do even basic work. Besides, if we make people fleet up every time we need to do a jf run, well, this game will be destroyed by boredom in a heartbeat.

Also, you all complain about inflation, wait until there are massive supply shortages because half of the logistics pilots throw in the towel.
Suzuka A1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4106 - 2014-10-02 20:12:11 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

The Slayer wrote:
Chinicata Shihari wrote:
I know you wouldn't do this but just to show the facts

Spreadsheets are good for the mind https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IjH2JyeTd0suTC43REymnoiD2TF70HxbkRWqNtJjqds/edit#gid=0

yes that is 2.43 millennium.


Just to play Devils Advocate here a bit if you wait out the fatigue timer instead of just the jump timer you can run this exact route in around 14 hours.



Yup, there's a lot of smart optimization opportunities here.


So you are going to punish the newbs (newb renters most likely) with excessive arbitrary timers which might take MONTHS/YEARS to decay...gotcha.

CCP is now worse than Goonswarm.

Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H  What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626
Kalissis
#4107 - 2014-10-02 20:12:11 UTC
Kurita I wrote:
I say significantly reduce jump fatigue this is far too heavy handed.

Keep it simple.

Having different pilots with different fatigue levels trying to coordinate a fleet is just too much of a pain in the ass.

Instead of fatigue just do a jump timer of X minutes per LY.

For example 2 minutes of jump timer per light year. With max range of all jump ships 5 LY.

It would still take 1 hour and 40 minutes to go 50 LY.

How is this not enough time? You definitely cant zoom across the map and drop on people. Move ops still become a much bigger deal and where caps are deployed makes a huge strategic difference.

All without making people play for 8 hours straight just because they want to move their carrier.


Also the implications of everyone having their caps near home all the time may actually completely kill fights.

I think the change is so heavy handed that alliances will conquer a small area and keep their caps there. They will use the caps to drop on people in the local area with impunity because they know no counter drop is ever coming.

How is this healthy for fights?

You still need to give people the option to travel distances in reasonable time. IT IS A GAME AFTER ALL we dont need realistic travel times. You could literally travel to the moon in real life faster then some of this jump fatigue business.


So not getting the point of EVE, its not a WOW² its EVE! Eve is real, Eve is harsh, get over it.
Endo Saissore
Afterburners of Eve'il Inc.
#4108 - 2014-10-02 20:12:57 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The Cue wrote:

[quote=Erasmus Phoenix]Hang on... I just did some maths on your devblog example...

After jumping those 17.5 light years in 4 jumps, your example person has 706.74 jump fatigue... Unless I'm doing my maths wrong, it's going to take almost FIVE DAYS for that penalty to go away again.

What the hell.


Your maths are correct.


If the math is indeed correct I recommend you (CCP as a whole) see a doctor because you might be insane or you have been infiltrated by Hydra or something.

Again this is not meaningful gameplay.



This is assuming you jump as soon as possible. If you wait until the fatigue meter drops before you jump then you will find the 4 jumps can be done in a few hours.
Flaming Forum Spammer
Doomheim
#4109 - 2014-10-02 20:13:11 UTC
F* realism... it's why we don't have newtonian physics.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#4110 - 2014-10-02 20:13:36 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.



My thoughts is that it should be more often than once a month. A lot of people change corps every 3-6 months. Once a year is a little too restrictive for some play styles. This could also be a good way for players to firesell and leave stations if they were trapped in 0.0
Kalissis
#4111 - 2014-10-02 20:13:44 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

The Slayer wrote:
Chinicata Shihari wrote:
I know you wouldn't do this but just to show the facts

Spreadsheets are good for the mind https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IjH2JyeTd0suTC43REymnoiD2TF70HxbkRWqNtJjqds/edit#gid=0

yes that is 2.43 millennium.


Just to play Devils Advocate here a bit if you wait out the fatigue timer instead of just the jump timer you can run this exact route in around 14 hours.



Yup, there's a lot of smart optimization opportunities here.


So you are going to punish the newbs (newb renters most likely) with excessive arbitrary timers which might take MONTHS/YEARS to decay...gotcha.

CCP is now worse than Goonswarm.


A goon bootlicker is saying THAT!? See another indicator CCP is on point with those changes! GOGO CCP!
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#4112 - 2014-10-02 20:14:08 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Falkor1984 wrote:
Well, dwindling numbers are saying CCP is doing a bad job. If I look at Eve-offline I think I see we just hit a 6 year low in active chars. Pissing off half of your customers is a bad idea in any situation, let alone in this situation. Change will always **** off some people, but changes like these with grotesque cooldown timers and long travel times do not add anything to the game but boredome. I expect devs to be able to create something more fun than that. If they can't, customers will leave, because face it, if a game needs 'features' like this there is something really wrong in that game. And people generally do not want to pay for bad games.

So, no it is not about self interest, it's about being stunned how stupid companies/devs can be.

Or you could take the opposite view, in that current low numbers are because nullbears aren't logging in. They're not logging in because there's nothing to do. There's nothing to do because blue donut. There's blue donut because force projection. There's force projection because there are no practical limits to capital movement.

Ergo, impose practical limits on capital movement over long distances.

Ergo, power projection nerfed.

Ergo, blue donut impacted.

Ergo, stuff happens.

Ergo, reason to log in.

Ergo, concurrent subscribers increases.


IF this is the case, which I don't expect, but let's for arguments sake say it is, CCP should still be able to solve this problem in another way. Adding boredom does nothing good for a game.

Also, when I think further on this matter: this change kind of robs the players of an endgame. I can still remember getting my first bs, capital and supercapital. With this change caps and supercaps become kind of obsolete. What do new players have to look forward too then? Ships that are worthless/no fun to fly?
Artemis Dalvik
Arxersize Industries
#4113 - 2014-10-02 20:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Artemis Dalvik
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Charlotte Ginger wrote:

There is no need for this what so ever. Grab a Frig, and FLY

Seriously?

Anything that makes it easier for new players to start doing interesting stuff straight away is a thing that we are interested in supporting :)


Than create a new player experience that shows them what interesting stuff there is. That is not what this is about. The suggestions you are making sound more like a brainstorming session than well thought out game mechanics. This whole notion of one pod jump per year is a hack. As a developer I shudder at the thought of working for ccp if this is the best you can come up with.

Address the core of the problem, dont litter the solution with bandaids.
Kurita I
Illicit Technologies
#4114 - 2014-10-02 20:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kurita I
I have to double post about this topic because I feel so strongly about it.

REMOVE Jump Fatigue

KEEP Jump Timer

Keep it simple, don't make it confusing to new and existing players. AND don't penalize jumps so damn harshly. 3 days is an enormous time to wait to do something IN A GAME

I mean seriously think about it.

I need to move to my alliances staging point. The total jump fatigue i accumulate puts a 2 day timer on my jumping.

The next day is an alliance OP that requires one titan bridge.

I skip the op because of my timer.

The next day is another op that requires one jump in a carrier.

I skip the op because of my timer.

The THIRD day is another op that requires one titan bridge.

I go on the OP because yay my timer is finally gone.

The FOURTH day is another op that requires a titan bridge.

EVERYONE has been cooling down their jump fatigue to zero each day because they were properly synced with the alliance ops. EXCEPT ME, I still have a compounding value that is increasing my jump fatigue.

Today because of YESTERDAYS jump I can not go on an OP again.

I decide to SIT OUT AND NOT PLAY THE GAME for a week so my fatigue goes away and syncs up with the rest of the alliance.

HOW IS THIS FUN????????? (or a good mechanic?)
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4115 - 2014-10-02 20:14:48 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

The Slayer wrote:
Chinicata Shihari wrote:
I know you wouldn't do this but just to show the facts

Spreadsheets are good for the mind https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IjH2JyeTd0suTC43REymnoiD2TF70HxbkRWqNtJjqds/edit#gid=0

yes that is 2.43 millennium.


Just to play Devils Advocate here a bit if you wait out the fatigue timer instead of just the jump timer you can run this exact route in around 14 hours.



Yup, there's a lot of smart optimization opportunities here.


So you are going to punish the newbs (newb renters most likely) with excessive arbitrary timers which might take MONTHS/YEARS to decay...gotcha.

CCP is now worse than Goonswarm.

Except it won't take months/years. 30 day fatigue max, 3 day jump max.
Erelas RyAlcar
Teh Hive Collective
Carebear News Network
#4116 - 2014-10-02 20:16:08 UTC
Players new to the universe are going to do some very simple math, weigh the benefits against the immense time-sink and simply overpopulate high-sec. This seems like, in the short term, it is going to have precisely the opposite of the intended effect.

The long term, who really knows, or can predict.... This seems a heavy-handed and overwhelming non-solution to power projection (i.e. bat-phoning in super-caps). KISS, limit their travel based on mass, don't eliminate all desire for a newer corp or player to even "try" null.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4117 - 2014-10-02 20:16:16 UTC
Kurita I wrote:
I have to double post about this topic because I feel so strongly about it.

REMOVE Jump Fatigue

KEEP Jump Timer

Keep it simple, don't make it confusing to new and existing players. AND don't penalize jumps so damn harshly. 3 days is an enormous time to wait to do something IN A GAME

If one of my characters got stuck in hostile space because of a 3 day timer I would just unsub the account. Seriously.

If you reach a 3 day no-jump timer, then you've been working very, very hard at getting that timer up, and probably spent a lot more time getting to where you're at than if you'd just waited a few more minutes more each jump.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#4118 - 2014-10-02 20:18:01 UTC
I will keep saying it over and over fatigue should be scaled by ship size and not a flat rate. And the decay should be faster based on size too. Punish big ships not small ones

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4119 - 2014-10-02 20:19:45 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


For the majority of applications this is not an efficient option vs just using a jump bridge, so we do not believe that jump bridges are "useless" under this system when compared to titans.



Jump bridges have a significant cost to maintain them as well as having to sacrifice 2 upgrade slots for every link. They can only be used to link systems that you own. They can not be used directly for offense in the way that a titan jump bridge can be used to hot drop.

It's been a while since I lived deep enough into null that I had use for JBs but when I did they were great for moving stuff around. We used to run mining ops and use the JB to move our ore back to station where it could be used. This seems to make that not viable.

It seems you'll still be able to use JBs for the occasional flanking of a red roam it's only the habitual users like miners and industrialist that get hit with this nerf or at least to a greater degree. Since JBs can't be used to hot drop you might want to treat them more like JFs than titan bridges.

It seems like a reasonable guess that while these changes don't make JBs useless they will almost certainly cause a significant reduction in the number of them in use.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Suzuka A1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4120 - 2014-10-02 20:19:56 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Fonac wrote:
You've nerfed rapidly deploying over vast distances to a complete impossibility.


Hopefully, yes.


I've always had the opinion that anything should be possible in EVE, maybe extremely difficult/painful but still possible.

Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H  What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626