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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#4061 - 2014-10-02 19:48:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Thus the beauty of this even for those of us who know it's a mistake. High Sec (ie many of the people in threads like this cheering about "null sec tears" are about to find out why this change will have a minimal impact on the null status quo while having a decidedly NASTY effect on the rest of New Eden.

Those high sec guys sometimes don't understand how interconnected the game is or who it is buying their mineral, finished goods and LP store items. They sometimes don't understand that that 650 mil Incursion or mission Machariel is that cheap because of the ease of getting it to empire from Curse or other angel space. They don't get that this change is about to SHAFT their way of space-life by drying up aspects of the HIGH SEC market lol.

No, all they can see are null tears. they haven't learned the lesson of real life: rich folks will be ok, it's everyone else that takes the hit. Some of them will learn when plex crosses 1 bil in response to the demand for PLEX for multiple character training Cool


Personally I think this would be great. It's terrible how cheap and easy it is to build and move stuff around space. It makes ships worthless and easily disposable, and leads people to do stupid things with them. If this served to double ship prices, and force people to think harder before getting their ships blown up, that would definitely be a change I can get behind.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4062 - 2014-10-02 19:48:59 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:

Senerios:
1) Oh ok, so just unsub the super/titan pilot for a month. Got it.

2) We are at war and I reach my 1 month timer. I can't use my cap and I can't use a titan bridge, nor a black ops bridge...I guess I'll go to high sec and run incursions?

You could, yanno, actually fly your ship of choice through gates. I know that's for teh poorz, but it is an option. Even for your supercap or titan pilot.

Then again, if you're too damn lazy to actually fly your ships in space, and too careless to watch your fatigue, then perhaps you're bad enough that you don't really deserve your space...?

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Agnahr
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4063 - 2014-10-02 19:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Agnahr
A couple of people in my alliance raised a good point regarding this change to capitals to make Eve more "localized". The regions we live in are nothing but localized. Isotopes of certain type come from specific regions. Valuable moons are not evenly spread out. So the logistic to keep cap fleets and towers fuelled up and supply moon goo will increase dramatically. Has any thought been put into this aspect? Restricting cap movements before rebalancing resources is a double whammy and the wrong way round.
Jai Centarium
Anqara Expeditions
#4064 - 2014-10-02 19:50:11 UTC
Has this threadnaught entered siege mode yet?

Certified purveyor of the High Life.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#4065 - 2014-10-02 19:50:37 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:
Dear CCP,

I am one of the few people in this game that actually do regional trading/marketing in null sec.

The proposed changes will stop me and those like me from even attempting this in the future. The 5ly range will prevent me from jumping even half way across a region meaning a 20 jump 2-4 hr trip might turn into a 40+ jump trip 1+ week trip. This is not meaningful gameplay so please rethink these JFs and Rorquals (the poor man's JF) mechanics.

Thanks.


When I poke my finger in my eye it hurts.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4066 - 2014-10-02 19:50:45 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
30 days of fatigue means 3 days cooldown, it's not so that 30 days of fatigue means 30 days of no jumping, luckily. It's still harsh, but it's not impossible to deal with.

And it's just a matter of not being dumb and jumping the instant you can, but being slightly more patient.


That's right. And after 3 days, when you jump, now you do have 27d of cooldown, and (assuming a 1LY jump), 54 days of fatigue! WHAT A BARGAIN! After all, if it was a 5LY jump, that's 27d * (1 + distance (5) ) = ONLY 162d of fatigue!

Why, next month when you take that jump, you'll be able to unsub for 5 months, come back, and still not be able to jump.

Never ever ever give yourself more than a few hours of fatigue. Ever. You will be shooting yourself in the head.

Actually my understanding was that they were going to cap the fatigue at 30 days, so you never went over that.


I think they said that they are thinking about capping the fatigue at 30 days, but they are probably open to other ideas to prevent excessive fatigue buildup.

https://twitter.com/CCP_Nullarbor/status/517734601721393152

Doesn't look like they're just thinking about it, tbh.
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#4067 - 2014-10-02 19:51:52 UTC
Holy batman!

More then 200 pages already! This is not a threadnought, this is a threadtitan! Run before it unleashes its doomsday on all of us! :)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#4068 - 2014-10-02 19:52:43 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Falkor1984 wrote:
Whats the maximum amount of posts a thread on these forums can hold actually?Big smile

GG CCP, let's scare away even more customers. There isn't any competition out there anyway nowadays...oh wait.


Are we supposed to take the unsub threat of people in this thread more seriously than those in thread about whatever other mechanic?


When a change is good, rejoyce.

When it's against self interests, summon huge trombones and invoke the Sacred Paying Customer mottos!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#4069 - 2014-10-02 19:53:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Hahaha ... It took us weeks to get to 100 pages of tears when they changed wormhole jump changes. Your tears are filling up new pages by the minute.

As I have lived in a wormhole my whole eve carrier, I won't pretend to understand how much this will make life more difficult for you on more than on a theoretic level, just like all the null sec alts that posted in our forums didn't understand wormhole jump changes on more than a theoretic level. However, it does seem like this would weaken the defensive ability of the big power blocks. This is a good thing, isn't it?


The large alliance/coalition have the organisation to teach their player to setup jump clone in important station and can setup ship cache. It will be a PITA to do this but their position is easier to defend with this change as long as they do the legwork of having their pilot setup correctly.


Then why do we have over 200 pages of tears if all this changes is adding a little legwork?


The people doing that legwork right now know what it is and will turn hell and heaven over to dodge that bullet if they can.


If any of you think CCP cares about your tears and threats to unsub, I assure you they don't. The only thing they do care about is if any of their proposed changes will break any other mechanics they are interested in. They are very deliberately trying to make extra legwork.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#4070 - 2014-10-02 19:55:00 UTC
Sentinel Eeex wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
.02 more isk to add...

Remember also this is the first set of changes. That means while you are looking at this and going 'omg x..y... and z will be harder" there is a chance, a very good chance, that CCP has changes that will make x..y.. and z.. be trivial after they are all implemented. This was just the easiest change they can do. And after looking at metrics due tot eh 6 week cycle they will have time to modify and adjust or eve roll back if it sucks. The point is to take a chill pill and wait till its on tq before you fully judge if it will work or not.

And this reminds me of the old saying, everyone who for years complained about force projection and wanted ccp to fix it, be careful what you wish for.


Do you realize that they maybe spent a day thinking about these changes before making a devblog here?

They didn't even think about some most basic issues, embarrassed themselves, and you expect that they have some good/better changes already planned, for the future?

Heh.



As I mentioned before. We are the hive mind. A single dev focused on a single or even broad aspect of eve, can not come up with every single nuance that a player can use. And honestly, I think they did consider a lot, and because they have a bigger plan, people sitting here going 'logistics is gonna suck, watch t2 prices rise' if in say feb they drop a change and now all moon ore is found in new special asteroids belts that you can mine, you now no longer NEED to go to empire to get t2 stuff, your line members can mine it.

In that aspect, its trivial the complaints about importing goods, if part of the idea is to make it so you have everything you need in yoru home systems.

But baring that, a primary pvp player, or even a dev focused on pvp, usually cares little for how logistics works. PVPER don't give a **** how hard it is to fuel a pos, as long as its up, there **** is there, and they can shoot **** who cares. Just like the industrial doesn't care how much DPS a ship can pump out, they just care if they build it what will it sell for. This is the reality. Devs are not gods, they are humans. This is why they ask for feed back because it is impossible for people to think of everything. And you have prolly seen this, you have this brilliant idea, you tell 10 of yoru friends and they go 'wow that sounds amazing!' so you jump on forums and post your brilliant idea... and all it takes is one guy/girl to go "uh dude no, if you do this x will happen" and then you see its a crappy idea. Hence this thread.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4071 - 2014-10-02 19:55:32 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Hahaha ... It took us weeks to get to 100 pages of tears when they changed wormhole jump changes. Your tears are filling up new pages by the minute.

As I have lived in a wormhole my whole eve carrier, I won't pretend to understand how much this will make life more difficult for you on more than on a theoretic level, just like all the null sec alts that posted in our forums didn't understand wormhole jump changes on more than a theoretic level. However, it does seem like this would weaken the defensive ability of the big power blocks. This is a good thing, isn't it?


The large alliance/coalition have the organisation to teach their player to setup jump clone in important station and can setup ship cache. It will be a PITA to do this but their position is easier to defend with this change as long as they do the legwork of having their pilot setup correctly.


Then why do we have over 200 pages of tears if all this changes is adding a little legwork?


The people doing that legwork right now know what it is and will turn hell and heaven over to dodge that bullet if they can.


If any of you think CCP cares about your tears and threats to unsub, I assure you they don't. The only thing they do care about is if any of their proposed changes will break any other mechanics they are interested in. They are very deliberately trying to make extra legwork.


I never said it would work for them. Only that they will do this legwork too in case it does work. They are already used to doing legwork anyway.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4072 - 2014-10-02 19:55:47 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
BTW, 204 pages is not a Threadnaught. It's a Thread Titan, but "Thritan" sounds silly. Cool


Leviathread


Winner!
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#4073 - 2014-10-02 19:56:46 UTC
hey as part of the death clone thing

could you make it so people with level 5 skills can create the skill book for that skill at a cost of npc price +50% or something? often times newbies will pod to their school stations to inject skills, would b cool if noobs still had easy access to skills in null by getting them from a vet or something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4074 - 2014-10-02 19:57:24 UTC
Klara 'Karotte' Krone wrote:
I say we all boycott the game for 20min. lets say everyone logs off at 11:00 eve time daily and log back in 11:20. that should get CCP attention and drop the changes...... oh wait that already happens....

CCP what are you doing... to many late nights so thinking is not clear??


No, we should all protest by self destructing our clone with the most expensive implants.

Btw, can I interest you in my fine selection of replacement implants?
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4075 - 2014-10-02 19:57:42 UTC
Agnahr wrote:
A couple of people in my alliance raised a good point regarding this change to capitals to make Eve more "localized". The regions we live in are nothing but localized. Isotopes of certain type come from specific regions. Valuable moons are not evenly spread out. So the logistic to keep cap fleets and towers fuelled up and supply moon goo will increase dramatically. Has any thought been put into this aspect? Restricting cap movements before rebalancing resources is a double whammy and the wrong way round.

Your ability to supply everything you need from your chosen home will be impacted, yes. Which means you need to source locally everything you can, so your somewhat limited logistics can handle importing the things you can't source locally. It also means that there may be more demand elsewhere for the stuff you can source locally, which could be used to trade for stuff you need.

You could, for example, ensure that your towers and majority of your caps run on locally sourced isotopes, for example. You could ensure that you import the non-racial components you need for local T2 production. You could run more reaction farms. All kinds of ways to generate industrial and economic activity, just by making "get it all from Jita' less convenient.

Yanno, encouraging folks to use the space they live in, and encouraging trade across regions. Might even be a buff to the secondary / regional trade hubs like Amarr and Dodixie. And null/high logistics routes might become valuable trade hubs in and of themselves.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Suzuka A1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4076 - 2014-10-02 19:58:06 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The Cue wrote:

[quote=Erasmus Phoenix]Hang on... I just did some maths on your devblog example...

After jumping those 17.5 light years in 4 jumps, your example person has 706.74 jump fatigue... Unless I'm doing my maths wrong, it's going to take almost FIVE DAYS for that penalty to go away again.

What the hell.


Your maths are correct.


If the math is indeed correct I recommend you (CCP as a whole) see a doctor because you might be insane or you have been infiltrated by Hydra or something.

Again this is not meaningful gameplay.

Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H  What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4077 - 2014-10-02 19:58:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
BTW, 204 pages is not a Threadnaught. It's a Thread Titan, but "Thritan" sounds silly. Cool


Leviathread


Winner!

nobody said outpost yet?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#4078 - 2014-10-02 19:58:47 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Hahaha ... It took us weeks to get to 100 pages of tears when they changed wormhole jump changes. Your tears are filling up new pages by the minute.

As I have lived in a wormhole my whole eve carrier, I won't pretend to understand how much this will make life more difficult for you on more than on a theoretic level, just like all the null sec alts that posted in our forums didn't understand wormhole jump changes on more than a theoretic level. However, it does seem like this would weaken the defensive ability of the big power blocks. This is a good thing, isn't it?


The large alliance/coalition have the organisation to teach their player to setup jump clone in important station and can setup ship cache. It will be a PITA to do this but their position is easier to defend with this change as long as they do the legwork of having their pilot setup correctly.


Then why do we have over 200 pages of tears if all this changes is adding a little legwork?


The people doing that legwork right now know what it is and will turn hell and heaven over to dodge that bullet if they can.


If any of you think CCP cares about your tears and threats to unsub, I assure you they don't. The only thing they do care about is if any of their proposed changes will break any other mechanics they are interested in. They are very deliberately trying to make extra legwork.


i'll add, they also care about the health of the game, they believe that long term this will be better for eve. A few people flipping out and bouncing now will mean nothing if when all the changes are done they get more subs in the end.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#4079 - 2014-10-02 19:59:07 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:

https://twitter.com/CCP_Nullarbor/status/517734601721393152

Doesn't look like they're just thinking about it, tbh.


Funny thing - just like in the actual example in the dev blog, this would seem to indicate CCP Nullarbor hasn't actually paid attention to how their own mechanics work.

TheFreakinDevBlog wrote:

After a jump is complete but before your fatigue is increased, you gain a jump cooldown timer. The length of this timer is a number of minutes equal to your jump fatigue (before being increased by that jump!), and you are unable to make another jump of any kind until this timer expires.


So you have 30d of fatigue. 3d timer. In 3d, you have 27d of fatigue, and you jump

You now have a timer of 27d, and fatigue's reset to 30d, because it can't get higher.

Dear CCP devs: You should at least try to understand what your own mechanics say.
TerminalSamurai Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#4080 - 2014-10-02 19:59:36 UTC
Capqu wrote:
hey as part of the death clone thing

could you make it so people with level 5 skills can create the skill book for that skill at a cost of npc price +50% or something? often times newbies will pod to their school stations to inject skills, would b cool if noobs still had easy access to skills in null by getting them from a vet or something


Dunno if I support the exact idea, but making skills a non NPC seeded item as this point in time would be cool. I do agree that not being able to find skills anywhere besides certain systems is an issue, I've podded myself more than once in a Wh to go get skills because it's easier.