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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#3941 - 2014-10-02 18:55:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rowells wrote:
When are these changes hitting sisi?


November sometime. Possibly just enough time for me to train into a dread.


It'll be super weird thinking about you not being in a megathron Baltec

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#3942 - 2014-10-02 18:55:09 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
Why do you want to kill Null-Sec travel for subcaps? With the proposed changes taking multiple jump bridges will be impossible. Image an Alliance living in different parts of one region.

To assemble a fleet it will already put a lot of their pilots on different timers and fatigues values. When they try to reach their goal, they will a) all have to wait for the people with the longest timers or b) drop people at jump bridges.

When poded players want to reship and rejoin the fleet, they will also have to wait out multiple timers.

How does disabling people to take multiple jump bridges make NULL-SEC less static?

The incredibly bad part of having the same changes aimed for caps, applied to subcaps and jump bridges is that you will kill/split of fleets. That's a horrible idea.


Can anyone please check, if this is really what it is going to be to use JBs? I made this assuming a 4LY jump per bridge.
http://imgur.com/K1Tq5fo


Or you could just fly there gate to gate in a group. You do realize that is still an option.

It is not really. As I outlined above, people live in different parts of the SOV. This seems to be what the general idea of "use your space" wants. They will rat/explore/mine/produce in a system farer away from a main staging system. When a fleet forup is called, they will have to travel in not so large groups/alone and will have to take JBs. That is what they are there for. To use your space, no? This will give them timers.
In the end people will arive at a staging with different timers. How is that a good change?



How is it a bad one. Transit for subcaps is more difficult because they cannot solely rely on jump bridges to traverse great spances of space, bypassing gate camps. (such as the Enormous One that was on an almost constant basis by Afterlife on SV5-8N/Hed-GP gate). The benefit, is that hot drops and backup for those gate camps are not as available (so you can break them up in organized escorts and groups). There is no need for the jump bridge to get around your own space because there is less worry of being completely obliterated by a much escalating group. They run as much risk as you do setting up that gate camp as you do running it. With that said, call to arms will go out, people will figure out how to get from one point to another in your system. For those across the ways, they may... oh log on another character, or jump clone to the beachhead, or find some other way of getting to and fro instead of relying solely on a jump bridge network.

The functionality of sov is changing, and it is coming all the way down to what people protect, where they go, and what they do.

In other words.. you cannot own everywhere and get to anywhere you want in a flash anymore without incurring some sort of penalty. The people at the forefront in the staging system may have to fend for themselves for the time being until everybody gets there. It happens. Dog-piles won't work because you really won't know whose on cool down and who is not. If you truly want everybody at one point in space at a specific time for whatever reason, you'll have to travel that space together, and not rely on instant teleportation to get there.

It is weird to advocate that jump bridge networks should also hold this same cooldown, but the concept of this whole thing is to localize fights and not to be so outplayed because the defenders have a network of reaching every system they own in moments, in volume, with no method of slowing them down or stopping them.

Yaay!!!!

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#3943 - 2014-10-02 18:55:09 UTC
Yi Hyori wrote:

Deep null is going to be severely unattractive if these changes go in. There will be no benefit to living on the fringes of null due to logistics difficulties and being cut off from just about everyone. Some may enjoy the challenge and welcome the challenge of being in the frontier, but the income from deep null does not compare significantly enough to hisec to warrant living deep in null, cut off from hisec supply other than to simply claim that I CAN DO IT. This ties in with the mining income, but it also has to do with the ratting as well...

What if these jump changes are the first step in several, including tying ISK generation into system ownership?

I can totally see a smaller alliance going out to a fringe system, declaring it as home, and starting war on neighbors if it buffs their ISK generation. I can also see said home systems being the only systems to allow building of 'super gates', to lands of ISK milk and honey perhaps.... Or imagine said smaller alliance nibbling on the edges of neighboring large alliance systems because that large bloc has overreached its ability to defend all its borders without ridiculous power projection...

If the next moves on this chess board are along those lines, CCP could really have something here.

F
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3944 - 2014-10-02 18:55:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
Everyone in the game: Please fix game nao?!
CCP: OK We Fix Nao.
Everyone in the game: NO! FIX BAD!

Shocked


Patient: "Doc, my wrist has a rash on it from my wrist watch"

Dr. CCP: "Ok, I Fix" *takes out chain saw*

Patient: "I want 2nd opinion NAO"


Medic : You are also ugly!
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3945 - 2014-10-02 18:55:40 UTC
Skyler Hawk wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Grookshank wrote:

I am not denying there is a solution to every problem.
This function though is an unintuitive clusterfuck. Having a CD is one thing, but this "lets multiply cd with x times the size of your mum", is intransparent and stupid. No new player will get it. We'll do teaching fleet on "how to calculate if you are allowed to take a jb"....


In this day and age, jumping will be a commitment so you have to teach people how to understand what kind of commitement their jump create.

"Sorry, did you not understand we told you not to jump before the fleet up? We can't take you on the fleet tonight."
New player retention?

ah yes, those new players and their archons

what scamps they are!

I am talking about JBs.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#3946 - 2014-10-02 18:55:47 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Endo Saissore wrote:


B). You are not suppose to use your caps to deploy to "hot zones" across the map. The days of owning vast amounts of empty space are over. Decide what space is important to you and live in it.


QFT.


Sure people will own the space they live in, and it will be beyond painful to try to remove them. Stagnation on steroids.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#3947 - 2014-10-02 18:56:29 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Ocih wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
machuugoo wrote:
wow worked so hard to get capitals now....... load of b.s.



Why?

Now you can rat in your cap with increased safty... Now you can have a small scale pos battle without the bat phone... heck if you wanted you could even pull out a few super caps and not worry about the bat phone...

I think we have to re-focus our minds on how large eve is. right now we see eve as a small map but after the changes this small map will be like a huge map... and with it the region next to you should be seen as if its on the other side of eve now.


Agreed.
Though tbh, knowing I can tank a large faction POS full faction pimp fit with a single Rev, none of this matters. .


Greyscale did say that pos mods are going to be balanced... So dont expect your single rev being able to tank a death star for long.


We have seen these "Soon" comments before. I've also watched regions burn before "soon" took place.

I'm not going to do the whole "Ima quit EVE" thing but I haven't been to null in years and until I see logistical and defensible Null, I won't be in null. So if it's about vibrant null? That's 5 years down the road for me. I will continue to pay for 2 or 3 months a year and spend the rest of my time playing something else.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3948 - 2014-10-02 18:57:17 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rowells wrote:
When are these changes hitting sisi?


November sometime. Possibly just enough time for me to train into a dread.


It'll be super weird thinking about you not being in a megathron Baltec


Oh I wont be giving them up, the monkfish will simply be my ship for baltec fleet.
flakeys
Doomheim
#3949 - 2014-10-02 18:57:34 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Eigenvalue wrote:
flakeys wrote:
[

Take a ship , undock , fly there .... o// problem solved.

OW wait you're affraid you're gonna be too late to enjoy that content , wich will mean there is another side who VERRY much enjoyed their content as the reinforcements came way too late.Those guys also paid to have fun remember ...


You're convincing me even more that CCP is on the right track here ...



Because spending hours gate jumping to play the game is really really boring?

Every single proposed change here is about making eve slower and more boring. The predicate for doing so is that more boring will create more fights. I don't believe it.

on one hand yes but on the other it means the red zone where smaller content is interrupted or avoided due to the instant strike capabilities of capitals and bridges is smaller. So, assuming that the tales of people re-subbing and all the mini-blobs waiting in nullsec/NPC space were true. You should see more action close to home.

And if it's another B-R, You have all day to get there. Put some nanos on that dread.



Indeed, and this is just one of many changes . I hope in the end if everything is implemented there will be a reason/need/will to keep coalitions on a reasonable level and not the massive ones as we have now.Don't get me wrong i understand why and how they have come to grown the size they are now but it just really takes away the fun of it.Last time i was with FCON for half a year i remember that before and after the last great war we used to do pvp roams wich basically meant flying 25 jumps and then getting either blobbed on or blueballed and as a result we had to fly those same jumps back.The best way to get a fight was visiting BRAVE in syndicate wich was like 25+ jumps away, if you're used to the old ways of nullsec pvp that is just really sick.

As i hadn't been in sov null the year before that it opened my eyes at just how ****** up nullsec had become.Will these and the many changes to come in the end create what most players want , well we dont know but we gotta start somewhere and with big changes so why not this?

The only bad thing i see atm is the nerf on JF's , that should be a lot lesser if you ask me.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Aerich e'Kieron
Peace.Keepers
#3950 - 2014-10-02 18:57:49 UTC
Monica Selle wrote:
CCP Greyscale is there any chance at all you will address the concerns of Black Frog and PushX of not being able to get to many NPC null systems without going through sov null, or is this an intended consquence?


You might be able to increase your costs due the extra work and effort involved in moving.
That extra effort and work is something that also effects the players who want to move the stuff, the increased hassle is the same for them as it is for you, and you can rightly increase your prices to adjust for this.
And these players wanting to move stuff would rightly pay more for the service, because the amount of work involved is the same in both cases. I think?
Sentinel Eeex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3951 - 2014-10-02 18:58:04 UTC
I am still waiting for moment when CCP realizes that many capital pilots played the game because flying capital ships allowed them to play the game without being stuck in front of screen for hours.

That will probably occur to them sometime between December and February.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3952 - 2014-10-02 18:58:12 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
Skyler Hawk wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Grookshank wrote:

I am not denying there is a solution to every problem.
This function though is an unintuitive clusterfuck. Having a CD is one thing, but this "lets multiply cd with x times the size of your mum", is intransparent and stupid. No new player will get it. We'll do teaching fleet on "how to calculate if you are allowed to take a jb"....


In this day and age, jumping will be a commitment so you have to teach people how to understand what kind of commitement their jump create.

"Sorry, did you not understand we told you not to jump before the fleet up? We can't take you on the fleet tonight."
New player retention?

ah yes, those new players and their archons

what scamps they are!

I am talking about JBs.


EVE online, where your misstake will be painfull. Adapt or die and all that stuff...
Yi Hyori
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3953 - 2014-10-02 18:58:38 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Yi Hyori wrote:

Deep null is going to be severely unattractive if these changes go in. There will be no benefit to living on the fringes of null due to logistics difficulties and being cut off from just about everyone. Some may enjoy the challenge and welcome the challenge of being in the frontier, but the income from deep null does not compare significantly enough to hisec to warrant living deep in null, cut off from hisec supply other than to simply claim that I CAN DO IT. This ties in with the mining income, but it also has to do with the ratting as well...

What if these jump changes are the first step in several, including tying ISK generation into system ownership?

I can totally see a smaller alliance going out to a fringe system, declaring it as home, and starting war on neighbors if it buffs their ISK generation. I can also see said home systems being the only systems to allow building of 'super gates', to lands of ISK milk and honey perhaps.... Or imagine said smaller alliance nibbling on the edges of neighboring large alliance systems because that large bloc has overreached its ability to defend all its borders without ridiculous power projection...

If the next moves on this chess board are along those lines, CCP could really have something here.

F



You're right, which is why I asked for more information on the direction they were headed.

These changes by themselves have dire consequences on the longevity of Eve or at least relevance of nullsec if there aren't any followup changes to address said issues.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#3954 - 2014-10-02 18:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


i don't understand why this is needed. When i recruited noobs i picked them up at the tutorial systems. Flew them around and showed them a few basics.

so why can't a recruiter pick them up from the tutorial systems once a week in a little noob fleet and fly them to their new home? We have WHs and everything. getting into null is easy.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Bailian Moxtain
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#3955 - 2014-10-02 18:58:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Bailian Moxtain
Put ratting back into belts instead of stupid anamolies u gotta scan for, and see roamimg once again rise from the shadows

And btw, u gotta fix bumping if titans and supers are supposed to use gates. Pretty obvious why ..
Rarnak Ki
Twilight Hour Industries
Barely-Legal
#3956 - 2014-10-02 18:58:52 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Rarnak Ki wrote:
One big problem is that these changes have the unintended consequence of nerfing multiple jumps over short ranges, say back and forth between two nearby systems. That has nothing to do with force projection and yet will still incur the same penalties as jumping all the way across the universe.


protip... use the stargates for short range trips.

a nano fit niddy can get up to 6.5 AU per second...



Except that using gates is suicide unless you are in a fleet. Sorry, I am not jumping my jump freighter repeatedly through low sec gates. That would just be idiotic. The ability to use a jump drive to move large amounts and high value goods is essential to this game.
Croc Evil
Croc's Family Business
#3957 - 2014-10-02 18:58:55 UTC
CCP said they had thought it through. So I'd like to ask CCP about other ideas that came up during this and were revoked. Also reasons would be interesting.

For example. Have you considered to put limitations on particular ships/bridges and not characters? This could solve problems with jump clones and jump alts. Something that came up in my mind: to put counter on ship named like jump phased. When ship jump phased more than threshold, not possible for ship to jump via jump drive/bridge. Jump phased counter would fade out at some non linear speed. This could be very similar to you fatigue mechanism.

So any character could use several ships in chain to transport goods, switch to from transport ship to combat ship and jump etc. On the other hand still limits large force movement over large distances in short time. This seems more convenient way compared to several alts/clones passing ships each other. No characters locked for jumping so it should be better manageable for small groups.

Or am I missing something?

PS: If someone already came up with something like this, my apology, lazy to go through almost 200 pages ;-)
JEFFRAIDER
THIGH GUYS
#3958 - 2014-10-02 18:59:31 UTC
Usually I'm against any sort of poorly thought out changes.
Much to my pleasant surprise, while these changes are not perfect, they are the kickstart that 0.0 revamp needs.
Admittedly, these changes hit my cap-heavy, mobility-abusing alliance harder than others.
Doesn't matter, I say, it will be for the best.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#3959 - 2014-10-02 18:59:35 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Yi Hyori wrote:

Deep null is going to be severely unattractive if these changes go in. There will be no benefit to living on the fringes of null due to logistics difficulties and being cut off from just about everyone. Some may enjoy the challenge and welcome the challenge of being in the frontier, but the income from deep null does not compare significantly enough to hisec to warrant living deep in null, cut off from hisec supply other than to simply claim that I CAN DO IT. This ties in with the mining income, but it also has to do with the ratting as well...

What if these jump changes are the first step in several, including tying ISK generation into system ownership?

I can totally see a smaller alliance going out to a fringe system, declaring it as home, and starting war on neighbors if it buffs their ISK generation. I can also see said home systems being the only systems to allow building of 'super gates', to lands of ISK milk and honey perhaps.... Or imagine said smaller alliance nibbling on the edges of neighboring large alliance systems because that large bloc has overreached its ability to defend all its borders without ridiculous power projection...

If the next moves on this chess board are along those lines, CCP could really have something here.

F


Its probably in combination of the remaking of pos systems, new possible deployables, and hopefully the revamp of the Rorqual (it still needs a role/job).

Its just the beginning. One hell of a start for the Rebirth of Eve.

Yaay!!!!

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3960 - 2014-10-02 18:59:36 UTC
Bailian Moxtain wrote:
Put ratting back into belts instead of stupid anamolies u gotta scan for, and see roamimg once again rise from the shadows


That will support even fewer players than the ****** anoms do now..