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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
MC'SAKE
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3801 - 2014-10-02 18:07:12 UTC
Just tell me one thing:

Who benefits from making nullsec logistics and industry more boring than it already is?


Welcome back freighter escorts. I will not be participating. And god forbid you forgot two modules for your new fit. Back you go through 27 jumps to pick it up.

These changes are ok'ish for combat capitals, they are way too much for JF/Rorq. Even with the 90% reduction
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3802 - 2014-10-02 18:07:28 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
People asked for the change to "help them recruit newbies," CCP responded with a newbie only fix, and then those who asked for the original are upset because in reality they were asking to not nerf power projection.

I'm not sure that phrase means what you think it means.
Ice Dealer
Ice Dealer Corporation
#3803 - 2014-10-02 18:08:29 UTC
Degalo wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


What about those that get kicked/leave corp will in a sov station?

How will they get out without just hoping they don't get podded?

e.g. Jeff gets kicked from corp. He tries to leave to empire in a ceptor. Gets caught and podded before he gets out of sov 0.0. He is now back in the sov station, but unable to upgrade his clone (standings). He used his yearly move 8 months ago.

It seems he's presented with the choice of trying again in an alpha clone or waiting there until he gets into a new player corp. He can't just make his own corp (as the hq system would be the same system he's already in).


Getting kicked out of a corp, is actually joining an NPC corp. So you should get a free move upon getting booted. Then use your move to exit to your med station for the NPC corp.
BrundleMeth
Black Parrot
Sylvanas Super mercenary
#3804 - 2014-10-02 18:08:46 UTC
After this is implemented, I'd lke to see every Captains Quarters get equipped with a working Toilet and Urinal...Bidet optional...ShockedShockedShocked
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#3805 - 2014-10-02 18:08:50 UTC
Master Dumi wrote:
YOU are Killing EvE again.


Looks like the best reason to QUIT now :

1. Life will get impossible in deep 0.0 and Capitals will become giant old ships that nobody want them.
2. Without any benefits from Capitals players will stop learning and building them and loosing goals = loosing players
3. Sure you hate 0.0 because of the stress on your servers due to 3000 pilot fights but that is the reason ppl join EVE, that is the reason EVE is so great.
4. This will not balance the 0.0 - it will take out the pleasure of 0.0 ppl to play EvE and a lot of them will QUIT.

My advice :
You have the CSM, use those ppl to come up with ideas to improve EvE.
Stop letting employes that did not play the game for a long time to change this game.
EvE is a great great game - stop changing the game.


Can I have your stuff?
Sulzer Wartzilla
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3806 - 2014-10-02 18:09:07 UTC
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:

4. Lowsec cyno-jammers should be made system wide or grid wide at least. **As presumably you will get no exhaustion cynoing within the same system - lowsec will have more cap fleets cynoing within system much more regularly as part of a camp or w/e. Lowsec power projection will actually increase for the current '1 system overlords' as they warp caps to gate, jump and then cyno within the system to the fight.


** Edit: added a reason why ... Mystic Meg crystal ball opinion here but I'm normally not too far off.



4 Need to have a look at in-system jumps - I can't even remember if they're possible :/




ARE YOU ******* KIDDING ME??!?!!! HOLY **** ******* QUIT YOUR ******* JOB

This is the man in charge of kneecapping capital ships, folks. We can only wonder - has Greyscale ever actually logged in to Eve?
Demonfist
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3807 - 2014-10-02 18:10:46 UTC
Querns wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
Alliances love tech moons, right?

Man your playbook is dated

Thanks for your input. Next time if you could suggest alternate options that would stimulate conflict more efficiently that would be swell.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.

Pic'n dor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3808 - 2014-10-02 18:10:49 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Coreemo wrote:
Also, the whole "fix" to deathcloning is a really bad idea. We need SOME way to quickly deploy to a hot area that requires it.


Why? (Serious question.)




Because where it's hot, it's content.
When it's content, it's fun.
When it's fun, it is worth playing.
When it is worth playing, we, player, pay and have fun.

Remove from casual player the ability of quickly catch up is incentive... to play something else...


Remember this http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-online-development-in-2013-and-beyond/
Don't let the enablers ant the instigators alone with followers that can't catch up.
No everyone is playing 24/7...

COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE

Tribalist
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3809 - 2014-10-02 18:11:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
the outer reaches of null will be all but abandoned.


Suppose that's a step up from the current all reaches of null being all but deserted. Lol


Which isnt exactly fixing null.


Yup.

CCP is not trying to fix Null sec they are trying to change the way the game is played.

CCP Greyscale has stated as much, and I paraphrase - we don't want you to deploy, we want you to decide where you want to live.
The problem with this is that EVE players are creative. We want to play the game our way. So we are going to look for ways to do that and CCP Greyscale is going to look at ways to punish that behavior.

In my opinion Jump Drive Fatigue is designed to punish Jump Travel, what other purpose is there?

CCP Greyscale you want us to play a certain way.Can you please share that vision so we can help you determine the least painful way to achieve that.

Some Suggestions based upon your responses to questions and comments

1. Distinguish a difference between combat capitals and logistical capitals. - Combat capitals (Titans, Dreads, Carriers, Supers) have a limited Jump range as you propose - 5LY. (for role players or anyone who needs a reason - it's because of the weapons and defensive systems requiring all the ships power not leaving enough for extended jump range)

2. Non Combat capitals (Rorquals, Jump Freighters) have a reduced range maxing out at 10LY - This encourages industrial expansion

3. Farms and Fields - These changes will encourage local industry for Null sec. The range limitations and a limited Jump Fatigue will force alliances and blocs to local mfg. at the same time we don;t want to kill high sec industry so it needs to be balanced. The average industrial corp has no desire to relocate to null sec, forcing them to will produce as many tears as the current batch.

4. Limited Jump fatigue. CCP Greyscale wants us to use gates and he feels that the fixed length timer would need to be 51 minutes per jump to effectively force this. This is not practical, and its not fun. Neither is incurring a weeks worth of Jump Fatigue, It's probably the biggest problem I personally have with the proposed changes. It makes whole classes of ships useless and liabilities. You indicated that Jump clones were working as intended and no foreseeable timers would be enacted, I propose a similar jump drive limit. Each jump incurs a 1 minute per LY traveled delay plus a multiplier which reduces by 1 every 6 hours and resets to 1 at downtime

Example:
Jump 1 a 5 LY jump - 10 minute Fatigue timer and sets your jump counter to 2 ( 5 min = 5 min (jumped distance) + (5 (jumped distance) x 1 (current Counter))
Jump 2 a 5 LY Jump and 15 minute Fatigue and sets your jump counter to 3 (15 min = 5 min + (5 x 2 (jump counter when doing second jump))
Jump 3 a 5 LY Jump = 20 minute Fatigue and adds 1 to jump counter now 4 (20 min = 5 min +(5 min x 3)
Jump 4 a 5 LY Jump = 25 minute Fatigue and adds 1 to jump counter now 5 (5 min + (5 min x 4)

Result - 20 LY traveled in 4 jumps taking 70 minutes

When presented with this I believe FC's will choose to do a combination of Jumps and Gates to move a fleet saving the ability to jump as they get closer to the Target system. This still allows Caps to be USEFUL. The numbers can always be tweaked.

However I would beg you to reconsider any change that would result in a ship class being limited in such a way that it becomes a liability for periods greater than 24 hours.

When getting people to change their behavior it is usually better to make it as painless as possible. Almost like quitting smoking, gradual steps until desired results are achieved. If the change is too aggressive the cure may kill the patient.
Terraniel Aurelius
Space Wizards.
Tactical Narcotics Team
#3810 - 2014-10-02 18:11:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Terraniel Aurelius
CCP Greyscale wrote:


- Yes, persists after podding
- Yes, gate camps are hard. If they end up being too strong we'll likely add tools to redress the balance, but don't forget that jump drives allow you to switch entry gate very quickly.
- This is a thing we're considering
- Ditto


With the maximum jump range being 5 Lightyears, this will no longer be the case for several regions. With the proposed jump fatigue mechanic "very quickly" turns to painfully slowly. Gate camps will become the new standard for "Sov PvP".

I feel as though you have forgotten that we do not play this game in a vacuum. This will reduce the maneuverability of fleets and make them much more predictable. Spies will now eliminate any surprise factors that could have been had. If you think that spies are not a factor, then you have not played this game enough to understand how it works.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#3811 - 2014-10-02 18:11:50 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


they need special consideration because they're such incompetent/lazy groups that they can't run a frigate/shuttle op through a null entrance? there's no point to this. I would've thought that journey would expose new players to dying and sandbox stuff. null is supposed to be dangerous.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#3812 - 2014-10-02 18:12:33 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
People asked for the change to "help them recruit newbies," CCP responded with a newbie only fix, and then those who asked for the original are upset because in reality they were asking to not nerf power projection.

I'm not sure that phrase means what you think it means.


Basically someone brought up the concept of recruiting noobs and bringing them into nullsec, and that by changing current medical clone mechanics, would make it exceedingly difficult to get them in there, diminishing the new player experience.

CCP makes their following change, which provides all non-new characters no reprieve from the change, but still keeps a viable new player experience going for actual new characters and players.

It was an attempt to undo the suggested change for everybody new and old, by putting it all under the veil of "it'll diminish the new player experience".

It was a political play. It did not work.

Yaay!!!!

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3813 - 2014-10-02 18:12:36 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Personally, I see this as POSSIBLY opening up deep space for new comers, even tho you nullies think nobody is supposed to be out here without being part of a larger machine.


Of course 'they' do. Do you play games with the intention of letting your opposition score points?

If so I'd like to invite you to a friendly soccer match because I haven't won one of those in a while.

Letrange
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3814 - 2014-10-02 18:12:46 UTC
@greyscale @anyFC

Sudden though, could FC's chime in on this?

Would it be possible to add some form of jump fatigue indicator of a fleet and not just the individual pilots? I think that FC's would like to know what the max jump timer and max fatigue (and possible average jump timer and average fatigue with a x/y indicator indicating how many pilots are still part of the average) for a fleet without having to manually ask the pilots in the fleet to yell out how much jump cooldown they have left.

New tab on the fleet panel, some other indicator. Since there's now a cool-down after a jump and it's influenced by fatigue, it may be different for various members of a fleet. Also knowing if anyone still has fatigue going INTO a fleet since this means that parts of the fleet may take longer before they're able to jump than the rest of the fleet.

Also good for normal fleets using bridges since fc's may want to keep "sudden movement" capability of using jump bridges in reserve and knowing how much fatigue is in the fleet as a whole and how much that'll hang up their ability to use the next jump bridge may need to factor into their decision making.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3815 - 2014-10-02 18:14:46 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
People asked for the change to "help them recruit newbies," CCP responded with a newbie only fix, and then those who asked for the original are upset because in reality they were asking to not nerf power projection.

I'm not sure that phrase means what you think it means.


Basically someone brought up the concept of recruiting noobs and bringing them into nullsec, and that by changing current medical clone mechanics, would make it exceedingly difficult to get them in there, diminishing the new player experience.

CCP makes their following change, which provides all non-new characters no reprieve from the change, but still keeps a viable new player experience going for actual new characters and players.

It was an attempt to undo the suggested change for everybody new and old, by putting it all under the veil of "it'll diminish the new player experience".

It was a political play. It did not work.

Actually, it worked just fine -- Goonswarm Federation unironically and legitimately encourages new players, primarily by recruiting them from the Something Awful forums. The proposed mechanic does everything we wanted it to do.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Kalissis
#3816 - 2014-10-02 18:14:47 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


Great, one time deal, nothing fancy. Also mentioned before by some players you commented on, that it will become hard to move "new" players to NULL. This is not true, it creates more interactive ways to be created (like wait for WH, or wait for a "newb" move fleet), thus making EVE richer and not dull as it is right now.
Jita Pricer007
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3817 - 2014-10-02 18:14:55 UTC
I need new shoes my are very wet. I read this thread for awhile but got bored

https://i.groupme.com/76x101.gif.d50301f93b714c75bfac21def53a7228.preview

for all you leaving contract your stuff to me.


For all the black ops crying about time to jump out... Find a better site to link stuff

https://i.groupme.com/500x281.gif.4b19f89c4d6544dcbf57a1c084f602ae.preview
Shatoya
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#3818 - 2014-10-02 18:15:11 UTC
Sulzer Wartzilla wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:

4. Lowsec cyno-jammers should be made system wide or grid wide at least. **As presumably you will get no exhaustion cynoing within the same system - lowsec will have more cap fleets cynoing within system much more regularly as part of a camp or w/e. Lowsec power projection will actually increase for the current '1 system overlords' as they warp caps to gate, jump and then cyno within the system to the fight.


** Edit: added a reason why ... Mystic Meg crystal ball opinion here but I'm normally not too far off.



4 Need to have a look at in-system jumps - I can't even remember if they're possible :/




ARE YOU ******* KIDDING ME??!?!!! HOLY **** ******* QUIT YOUR ******* JOB

This is the man in charge of kneecapping capital ships, folks. We can only wonder - has Greyscale ever actually logged in to Eve?


I think it's pretty obvious he's never even played the tutorials.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#3819 - 2014-10-02 18:16:05 UTC
Whilst this change won't effect me in any way I have to say that this really feels like it's a string and sealing wax bodge-fix.

These proposals present the impression that theve' been created to sort out a larger fundamental problem.

If CCP wish to make travel a little more difficult in order to make the different areas of space have different markets then why not look at the Security Levels of the systems.

What makes, for example, a 0.6 system a 0.6 system? What happens if it has a revolution or something? I would rather that CCP looks at the mechanics of a system's security level being able to change for whatever reason.

Look at other ways to change what you want to acheive but this Fatigue Factor is wrong. We're supposed to be demigods and not some frail creature.

This new idea feels like a badly designed fix:, please do reconsider.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Wrecktum Yourday
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3820 - 2014-10-02 18:16:10 UTC
CCP givith. ...CCP taketh away.... I for one love the new changes. I also think blops need to be left alone or touched lightly since they will be perfect for smaller groups to inflict guerrilla warfare and harass larger groups.