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So here's something I think nobody has talked about yet. It's not huge, but it's an interesting consequence of the math they are using for this. If a pilot lets their fatigue value drop to 1 (not zero) it will no longer have an effect on their new fatigue value. Further, if it is less than 1 but over zero, it will actually make the new timer shorter than it would otherwise be. I'm assuming CCP has thought of this already and made it not happen, but I haven't found anything in writing about it.

An example:

Varos Kang jumps his non-existent carrier and accrues some fatigue. Nobody cares how much because that's not the purpose of the example. He waits until it is sitting at 0.2. He then makes another 5LY jump, bringing his new fatigue value to

0.2(1+5) = 1.2

Varos is very happy, because this is much less than the minimum he would have gotten if his fatigue was decayed to zero. He is also very happy because he somehow made a jump to another system without being able to use any jump-capable ship. :)

Seriously though, if this loophole in the math isn't already fixed, it needs to be. If I'm somehow missing something here, sorry to have wasted your time. Carry on as if you were normal.

I seem to remind people all too often that the end of that quote from Seagull was "we kind of have a history of treating these people like... ****"

Everything old is new again, indeed.

Once again, good job!

As I wrote above, it will be a horror moving subcap fleets *in your own sov* around.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5070585#post5070585

CCP: You want us to live all in one system?

CCP Greyscale once this is though and we wont or can't get to far away conflicts anymore were will we get our conflict you know content? What are you doing to make sure there will be local conflict? Because right now most nullsec space is not even worth fighting over much less holding it other then for renting it out? Are you going to address the fact that nullsec is especially worthless?

Lemme guess - you expect people to web supers into warp...?

Why dont you come back in four weeks? Your forums page jump timer must be through the roof after reading all this.

Given the niche of Black Ops (jump in, kill a target and leave as fast as possible), could you please consider the jump cooldown timer affecting overall performance of Black Ops, rather than preventing it from jumping?

Let's say if a pilot is in Black Ops, he can still jump, even with the 'orange' timer, but the timer itself would penalize ship's tracking, damage, resistances, speed, ect? Black Ops usually strike with an overwhelming force, where these penalties don't matter much, but when they are counter-dropped (or when targetting something bigger), the defenders would have an upper hand.


edit:
Hats down for going through with this CCP and I sincerelly hope you will stick with this plan, because the backlash of many null-sec players will be tough.
Personally I like the changes (with the exception of anchored jump bridges) and can't wait to see how they shake up the SOV map.

Well done!

So you will be retiring cyno jammers from the game as they are now useless ?

Just reading into a lot of the changes I do have to ask about the Black Ops changes.

It states that the range isn't going to be changed however it will still have the same "effects". Considering the BLOPS can jump further it is going to be penalised and the whole point for black ops is to project itself over different areas/regions undetected. This needs to be thought through a lot more as having to use gates is going to be suicide when potentially jumping into camps due to this jump lag timer.

I would propose the same sort of cool down time as the Rorq/JF or even none at all so at least they aren't nerfed into the floor to literally never being used again.

Go check reddit. They love the changes over there.

At least you have all the cry babies localized.

What entities are either not seriously impacted or stand to gain from the changes?

And wtf does this even mean?

"We expect the impact of these changes to be emergent, and as a consequence are unpredictable and will take a while to develop on TQ. This plays into our longer-term plans, as you’ll see in a second!"

How can something whose effects you bluntly state you don't know fit in with your long term plans, unless your long term plans are being built on a dart board?

That's untrue. People sell in Jita because it's got liquidity. You sacrifice margin for liquidity. People buy in Jita because prices are better than any where else *and* there's availability of whatever you want.

You won't get that in your locally produced markets. There's no way even a large alliance has the industrial capacity to locally produce all their doctrines and fittings as well as everything else they need to produce for revenue production (ratting, anom running, etc).

Sellers also just won't see the same liquidity in a local market for their goods and they'll have a much higher inventory risk. They will also have a much greater supply risk because you'll be fully dependent on local miners/moon production/etc.

What this is equivalent to is not amazon vs local shop owners, because here's reality: local shop owners depend on the highways and interestates to supply them just as much as amazon depends on them.

What this change is equivalent to is a country voluntarily tearing up all their highways and interstates and telling everyone to live off their local land. Worked really well for the Khmer Rouge. Really enabled post-Rome Europe. Sounds fun.

The other big issue that i have is the inclusion of jump fatigue on JB's. Not in a "ohh we cannot blop people anymore" issue but for the simple fact that pushing a full fleet through systems, even with the help of JB support incurs its own lag in the form of TiDi. Surely that alone adds artificial constraints to force projection already? why compound the situation?

I understand adding jump fatigue to JBs if you're permitting caps to use jbs as not including it means theres an obvious loophole to using your jump drive, but surely the mechanic of jumping through a jump bridge and jumping through a stargate can be separated and iterated upon separately?

if not then reduce jump fatigue drastically on subcaps (with a scaling up on jump fatigue based on ship hull class). its already been said by devs that the amount of fatigue can be varied on an attribute attached to the ship. and from a lore sense you'd be more fatigued jumping several billion tonnes of mass as opposed to several millions.