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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Roushar Prhizer
Doomheim
#3181 - 2014-10-02 12:34:51 UTC
While this increases the appeal of meta-gamming even further (those with enough skilled alts wins the game), the group I belong to can now deploy capital assets against regional foes. All without having to worry about a cyno alt providing a door to a super cap fleet of bored coalition pilots sitting 20+ LYs away

Even with the asspain of losing the easy resupply from Jita, comes the fact that now resupply for the opponents ship I just blew up won't be trivially easy.

A massive game changing shakeup, GG CCP. I just might keep my accounts subbed longer than I thought.
Richie Kane
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#3182 - 2014-10-02 12:35:08 UTC
Wow, you CCP people really want to mess up people going to null space. I'm a logistics pilot, I cover an entire alliance single handedly, we live in NPC 0.0 - I can GUARANTEE you that if this actually happens... it will be literally IMPOSSIBLE for people to live 15 jumps away from a station in a POS... it just will cease to be possible.

the whole reason we live in NPC space is to get away from SOV bullshit, if you are trying to get null space less stagnent you should be doing the oposite.

by FAR the worst idea you guys have EVER had.... I will consider to STOP paying for my 5 accounts and run lvl4 missions with only one account.. you will be forcing an entire region to leave and move back to highsec.... really not a good idea.
Yugo Reventlov
Keeping Up Appearances
#3183 - 2014-10-02 12:35:14 UTC
In order to fix the problem with accessing some regions with jumpdrives (Stain comes to mind), wouldn't it be possible to have the jump range linked to the jump fatigue, so that you could make one long jump if you saved up for it?

You can still cripple the jump range after that first jump, but at least then you have the possibility to cross certain long boundaries if you really need to and can wait long enough.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3184 - 2014-10-02 12:35:43 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Ive said it before and ill say it again:

Any mechanic that caters to a more casual player will be completely exploited by anyone who isnt a casual player which would break the game for everyone.

I see a bunch of whining in this thread but no alternatives being proposed. If you dont like this change, im sorry but nobody cares about you, but if you have a better idea on what to do, im sure people would be willing to listen.


You don't need to have a 'better idea' to be able to say "yo, firing nuclear weapons at your own cities is counter productive" lol.

Me personally, I long ago got tired of using my carrier to move stuff when every constellation has an empire wormhole somewhere. Hell, with this new jump crap their might even be a market for selling point to point wormhole locations to alliances lol (space-capitalism ftw).

What i personally dislike is the display of the same kind of failed thinking of the past. I remember saying (years ago) that CCP pays an economists when what they need is an in house psychologist to explain human nature to them as they develop the game. This is because we end up seeing so many game mechanics changes that INTEND one thing but end up doing the exact opposite:

(From an old devblog)

CCP Greyscale wrote:
tl;dr There's now a reason to fight for better space again: sov upgrades will spawn better cosmic anomalies in lower truesec space; cosmic anomalies spawned by methods other than sov upgrades are unaffected.


That was 3 and a half years ago and we all know how that turned out. That this kind of 'nerf your way to success' thinking hasn't changed is concerning. These jump changes HELP established players and groups who can absorb the punishments they inflict (through sheer numbers and 'handing off' jump capable ships to alts in 'Daisy-Chain' style, and via 'pre-postitioning/caching ships and alts all over the map, something poorer groups can't do). It's the exact opposite of what should be happening.

On the brightside, nano roaming carriers of remote rep death. I just EFTed a nano Archon with enough tank to survive a DD (sure, corners were cut, but hey, it's a ROAMING CARRIER! lol).

TL;DR I thought CCP was done with this kind of foot shooting.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3185 - 2014-10-02 12:35:44 UTC
Gossi91 wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
There is nothing to discuss they are going to do this regardless. The only way we can truly show our displeasure is to unsub from the game and pack up. They want an easy solution, don't gimp the rorquals and JF. If you think the rorquals can be exploited as combat ships, then leave it to the sole providence of the JF, hell ill even buy one. What is not acceptable is going back to a horsedrawn carriage to take my goods after I flew them out in a jet. No way in hell man. I have a wife and three kids that I like to hang out with and being able to mine, transport goods and back already takes me 2-3 days of careful jumping and planning. I am not having my range limited to 5y which is ridiculous.


Ok, let me give u another example:
Your boss tell you:
"Hey guy, u have to work 5 hours longer per week"

Would you just go and leave the company or would you say somethink like
"Ok, i can work 5 hours more a week, but to do this i would prefere to earn more money/get more holidays?"

Same here, by just saying "f*** you ccp, unsub incoming" you could share some ideas, THATS what ccp needs, not just another guys telling "i will unsub, deal with it or dont bring that patch"


Idea already proposed which they wont listen to. Don't effect the JF or rorqual, if we believe we can have a fleet of battle Rorqual that can be exploited, leave it to JF. Logistics is crucial in this game and removing it only solidifies the bigger blocks. They have plenty of cap pilots, the smaller guys on the other hand don't. and for the stupid posts of produce your own stuff, you cant produce all the T2 you need to be semi-competitive to make money, so don't give that stupid spill. Everyone still needs to get to jita to buy and sell their goods, without the ability to do that in a somewhat time efficient way, bleh.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3186 - 2014-10-02 12:36:03 UTC
Slevin-Kelevra wrote:
A rough idea of how people feel.

http://strawpoll.me/2686971

You forgot "yes, but they could need some tweaking" and "checkbox"
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#3187 - 2014-10-02 12:36:40 UTC
Major Trant wrote:
True Sight wrote:
The announce changes won't stop that. If you were genuinely hot-dropped by 12 carriers, simply so they could kill a dozen cruisers, they were local carriers, they will still happily do that after this change, if you think some alliance in Vale jumped 7 jumps to kill your cruiser gang in Delve, you are very very mistaken.

Dude you need to understand what you are talking about before mouthing off about it. But then you probably do, you just don't want to acknowledge how it really is.

Two of us in a Caracal and Heretic, were hotdropped by a shedload of PL in Huola recently. A few days later I was cloaked up off the Huola gate in Kourm and saw PL drop 3 times in an hour on small gangs no more than 3 cruisers strong. Each time they jumped in with 30 odd Faction BS/T3s and other exotic ships, then jumped a Titan in to bridge everyone home.

Is Huola within 5 LY of Amamake, Yes! But would PL drop on a Caracal and Heretic if it came with this penalty - or course not. Would they drop all the things 3 times in an hour, just to kill a couple of cruisers each time - that wouldn't be possible anymore. They would have to measure their response each drop, decide is the target worth it to lock them out of jumping for the next x amount of time. Drop less and then have to slow boat back to Amamake with the risks associated with that. Would it even be viable to have a couple of people wandering around in cyno tanked haulers baiting for ganks while everyone sits on the Titan? PL may even have to abandon Amamake to move near their most valued area of operation, cause now they are going to have to choose one or divide up their force into smaller scattered chunks.

You made your bed, now lay in it.

Please CCP stick to the plan! Don't let a few null sec leaders bullying their members into slagging you off here put you off.


QFT, let small gang pvp live again.
Gossi91
Orden der Freischar
The Vanguard Syndicate
#3188 - 2014-10-02 12:36:44 UTC
Slevin-Kelevra wrote:
A rough idea of how people feel.

http://strawpoll.me/2686971


49% agree vs. 39% disagree Lol
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#3189 - 2014-10-02 12:37:17 UTC
Sohl Ni-Zha wrote:
Maybe we, honest drug dealers of the cluster, get new product to distribute and help old, tired capital pilots with their fatigue?

We still wait for promised smuggling overhaul and this could be fine reason, to implement new drugs and tweak some other stuff.


A 40 jump round trip lasting 2.7 million years whizzing your **** off is going to be the mother of all come downs!

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3190 - 2014-10-02 12:37:28 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
If you think that way then there's no reason to complain, CCP is doing its part. What's delusional is playing a MMO and not taking responsibility for the own actions or thinking that players have no influence here - just watch the CSM or the influence of Fanfest, etc. The way people react to certain things like the cyno exploit that made CCP change something. We all knew this was coming and the past months have been quite the "boost" for CCP to ensure something is changing about nullsec.

Leaders of the coalitions could've been able to change something to avoid such harsh measures, now you've gotta deal with it. Either leave, biomass your **** or try to be helpful for once and stop blaming CCP for your own mess.

You seem to be reading something into my posts which I'm not putting there, because barring the severity of the "fatigue" and the fact I'm not sure nullsec as a whole is ready for the limitation they're looking to put on JFs, I'm all on board with these changes. So uh, yeah.

It will hurt a lot of people and won't solve the problem. CFC can still get still get there, they have made a new type of fleet with this change, 300 man roaming slow cats, but now you can't just drop suppers on them because they are out of range and you can't get them out.
Tyby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3191 - 2014-10-02 12:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyby
Lord TGR wrote:
Tyby wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
You can still get dropped, it will just take more preparation and skill to do so than it currently does.


yes ofc you can still get dropped, but except traps, the 12 man carrier gang dropping on cruisers just gained some extra time to gtfo if something went south. or even better than gtfo, they got some extra time to call and bring reinforcements
no matter how you look at this, the 12 man carrier gang just got a little safer

Last I checked they were talking about a cooldown time of 5 minutes. That's one siege cycle. If you're prepared well enough, then you should have little to no fatigue and as such be able to do a hit and run. If you aren't prepared to do that, then tough cookies.

yes, but to have a cooldown time of only 5 minutes means the dreads need to be prepositioned in 5AU range; that can be avoided very easy by just not jumping in 5AU of the hostile staging system
if the destination system is 6AU away, they just got 5 extra minutes; and we are talking about 6 au here; if dreads are 11 au or more, good luck trying too keep a fleet of carriers tackled till your dreads/super get to it and get out Blink
i'm not saying it can't be done; all i'm saying is that it will be harder to get it done and we are talking about a relativelly small distance here 6-11 au
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3192 - 2014-10-02 12:38:10 UTC
Ren Kavik wrote:
So Lord TGR... You mean to say that CCP intented null to be stale dead and borring except for the once in a decade BRB5...

Intended, no, probably not. Caused, yes.

Then again, they do play off of the "HOLY **** x THOUSAND PEOPLE IN A SINGLE SYSTEM ALL FIGHTING EACHOTHER" or "x TRILLION ISK DAMAGE CAUSED IN ONE EPIC FIGHT" card, so I guess you could say that their inaction has been because they intended to use that as advertisement, and now they might finally be seeing the error of their ways.
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#3193 - 2014-10-02 12:38:53 UTC
Major Trant wrote:
Two of us in a Caracal and Heretic, were hotdropped by a shedload of PL in Huola recently. A few days later I was cloaked up off the Huola gate in Kourm and saw PL drop 3 times in an hour on small gangs no more than 3 cruisers strong. Each time they jumped in with 30 odd Faction BS/T3s and other exotic ships, then jumped a Titan in to bridge everyone home.

Is Huola within 5 LY of Amamake, Yes! But would PL drop on a Caracal and Heretic if it came with this penalty - or course not. Would they drop all the things 3 times in an hour, just to kill a couple of cruisers each time - that wouldn't be possible anymore.


No, you are right, with these changes, they would only be able to do this once per hour instead, thank the lord for CCP's changes!

Major Trant wrote:
They would have to measure their response each drop, decide is the target worth it to lock them out of jumping for the next x amount of time. Drop less and then have to slow boat back to Amamake with the risks associated with that. Would it even be viable to have a couple of people wandering around in cyno tanked haulers baiting for ganks while everyone sits on the Titan? PL may even have to abandon Amamake to move near their most valued area of operation, cause now they are going to have to choose one or divide up their force into smaller scattered chunks.

You made your bed, now lay in it.

Please CCP stick to the plan! Don't let a few null sec leaders bullying their members into slagging you off here put you off.


Lets repeat your encounter 'post' the suggested changes

  1. You and your friends are chilling out in Huola
  2. PL Jumps you from their staging sytem, which is within range, none of them have jumped recently.
  3. It takes them 4 minutes to kill you, they only have 2 minutes left on their cooldown afterwards before they can jump again
  4. every extra couple of minutes they wait before jumping back fades their fatigue, if they did jump back straight away, they would have a 30min cooldown at most.
  5. now, they are indeed slowed down very, slightly, as after that 30mintues cooldown, it would be wiser for them to wait for more of their fatigue to fade before jumping again


Ultimately, the changes in this blog aren't even intended to fix the "dropping someone 5ly away" thing you are complaining about, it is meant for long-range power projection, for which I personally think this is a terribad idea, and I don't even live in null nor engage in capital combat (but I have many times in the past)
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3194 - 2014-10-02 12:39:26 UTC
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
If you think that way then there's no reason to complain, CCP is doing its part. What's delusional is playing a MMO and not taking responsibility for the own actions or thinking that players have no influence here - just watch the CSM or the influence of Fanfest, etc. The way people react to certain things like the cyno exploit that made CCP change something. We all knew this was coming and the past months have been quite the "boost" for CCP to ensure something is changing about nullsec.

Leaders of the coalitions could've been able to change something to avoid such harsh measures, now you've gotta deal with it. Either leave, biomass your **** or try to be helpful for once and stop blaming CCP for your own mess.

You seem to be reading something into my posts which I'm not putting there, because barring the severity of the "fatigue" and the fact I'm not sure nullsec as a whole is ready for the limitation they're looking to put on JFs, I'm all on board with these changes. So uh, yeah.

It will hurt a lot of people and won't solve the problem. CFC can still get still get there, they have made a new type of fleet with this change, 300 man roaming slow cats, but now you can't just drop suppers on them because they are out of range and you can't get them out.

And this carrier roaming fleet will catch who, again? The deaf, dumb and blind?
Schluffi Schluffelsen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3195 - 2014-10-02 12:40:36 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
If you think that way then there's no reason to complain, CCP is doing its part. What's delusional is playing a MMO and not taking responsibility for the own actions or thinking that players have no influence here - just watch the CSM or the influence of Fanfest, etc. The way people react to certain things like the cyno exploit that made CCP change something. We all knew this was coming and the past months have been quite the "boost" for CCP to ensure something is changing about nullsec.

Leaders of the coalitions could've been able to change something to avoid such harsh measures, now you've gotta deal with it. Either leave, biomass your **** or try to be helpful for once and stop blaming CCP for your own mess.

You seem to be reading something into my posts which I'm not putting there, because barring the severity of the "fatigue" and the fact I'm not sure nullsec as a whole is ready for the limitation they're looking to put on JFs, I'm all on board with these changes. So uh, yeah.


I'm pretty sure CCP will adjust the 5LY to something more realistic like 7-8LY, which should be fine. The fatigue should be lowered a bit, too - tons of other stuff to be taken care of like new NPC space in every region, racial fuel, moons, t2 production in general, etc.

But the direction is a right one and I'm glad that you agree. I'm not reading something into your posts, I just hate the neglect of taking responsiblity for the actions of your own alliance or blaming CCP for this. Yes they provided a crappy sov system - but it worked for years for smaller alliances, lots of wars and fun.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3196 - 2014-10-02 12:40:47 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Muadd Dibb wrote:
LMFAO!!! Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile


My god look at the null bears with the biggest tears in a bucket i have seen EVER in EvE Online.

TBH it sounds more fun.

PS obligatory " Can I az your stuff"



Keep laughing. i know I will when the so called null bears adjust (by owning all of the 'near Empire' sov Null space, spending even more time in Low Sec because it's close, strangling any attempt for anyone to take or live in deep null while making a fortune off of skyrocketing tech2 prices) but people like you suffer the consequences of this change.

Can you all be so naive and short sighted (even if it is just a video game)? Rhetorical question I know Cool



You sound as if you have a vested interest in keeping the current (s)cap status quo.


I personally have none. But I'm an EVE player. a more stagnant (and it will be because goons are in the best place to shift to "multiple regional control scheme' that these changes call for), more Goon dominated null sec is in no one's interest.

As I said in other places, what irks me is the poor thought process on display more than anything else. I'm not a game designer, I don't pretend to have the answers, but damn if these changes don't look bassakwards to me.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3197 - 2014-10-02 12:40:49 UTC
Tyby wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Tyby wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
You can still get dropped, it will just take more preparation and skill to do so than it currently does.


yes ofc you can still get dropped, but except traps, the 12 man carrier gang dropping on cruisers just gained some extra time to gtfo if something went south. or even better than gtfo, they got some extra time to call and bring reinforcements
no matter how you look at this, the 12 man carrier gang just got a little safer

Last I checked they were talking about a cooldown time of 5 minutes. That's one siege cycle. If you're prepared well enough, then you should have little to no fatigue and as such be able to do a hit and run. If you aren't prepared to do that, then tough cookies.

yes, but to have a cooldown time of only 5 minutes means the dreads need to be prepositioned in 5AU range; that can be avoided very easy by just not jumping in 5AU of the hostile staging system
if the destination system is 6AU away, they just got 5 extra minutes; and we are talking about 6 au here; if dreads are 11 au or more, good luck trying too keep a fleet of carriers tackled till your dreads/super get to it and get out Blink
i'm not saying it can't be done; all i'm saying is that it will be harder to get it done and we are talking about a relativelly small distance here 6-11 au

The numbers can be tweaked for both the distance and how the cooldown works, the main point is the thinking behind the change.
ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3198 - 2014-10-02 12:41:05 UTC
Gossi91 wrote:
Slevin-Kelevra wrote:
A rough idea of how people feel.

http://strawpoll.me/2686971


49% agree vs. 39% disagree Lol



those %'s are of that poll.. what about the other 40,000 people you didnt poll?
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3199 - 2014-10-02 12:41:20 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
If you think that way then there's no reason to complain, CCP is doing its part. What's delusional is playing a MMO and not taking responsibility for the own actions or thinking that players have no influence here - just watch the CSM or the influence of Fanfest, etc. The way people react to certain things like the cyno exploit that made CCP change something. We all knew this was coming and the past months have been quite the "boost" for CCP to ensure something is changing about nullsec.

Leaders of the coalitions could've been able to change something to avoid such harsh measures, now you've gotta deal with it. Either leave, biomass your **** or try to be helpful for once and stop blaming CCP for your own mess.

You seem to be reading something into my posts which I'm not putting there, because barring the severity of the "fatigue" and the fact I'm not sure nullsec as a whole is ready for the limitation they're looking to put on JFs, I'm all on board with these changes. So uh, yeah.

It will hurt a lot of people and won't solve the problem. CFC can still get still get there, they have made a new type of fleet with this change, 300 man roaming slow cats, but now you can't just drop suppers on them because they are out of range and you can't get them out.

And this carrier roaming fleet will catch who, again? The deaf, dumb and blind?

The sov. It will become an unstoppable rapetrain of sov grinding remote repping power.
ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3200 - 2014-10-02 12:41:51 UTC
is this update aimed to helping the french get into nulsec? all they gotta do is join an alliance...