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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Ferrocerium Spark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2901 - 2014-10-02 09:32:06 UTC
Someone probably mentioned this before...

CCP please don't make new jump drive changes nightmare for logistic/industiral operations. EvE is already feels like second job so please don't make it more time consuming when it comes to using jump freighters and rorquals.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2902 - 2014-10-02 09:32:50 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

Timers.. how are you going to attack somebodies system which is cyno jammed and defended with Capitals with your small subcap fleet?


With capitals

(read the devblog)



In other words you have no idea

No, capitals can still get in, they just can't cyno in (or back out in a panic if they suddenly decide (ackbar)IT'S A TRAP(/ackbar).
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2903 - 2014-10-02 09:33:23 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Cr Turist wrote:
how about a fixed cool down timer for capital jumps say 5-10 mins. forget this silly 5ly thing and all this other madness your talking about. its quick its easy it makes sense.


To hit our target of being faster to gate-warp than to jump, and our benchmark of 3m/LY for gate-warping caps around, for a 17 LY carrier jump the cooldown would need to be 51 minutes.

Jenn aSide wrote:


Reducing the number of hot drops in a game whose economy depends on ships going boom is not and never can be a good thing. CCP is making a bad move here, it remains to be seen how long after it's implemented for this to sit in with them. I expect 'un-nerfs' within 6 to 12 weeks of this change.


That logic also suggests that giving ships a 10% chance to explode every minute would be a good change. I don't wholly trust that logic.


Hows about a chance for a ship to pop on bridge or jump.

Words like the worm hole become unstable and ur ship droped out of warp.

Or a chance that the ship can drop out of warp falling out of the worm hole. and landing at some system randomly along the jump line.
Friedward Schnorch
EDGE Holding
EDGE Alliance
#2904 - 2014-10-02 09:33:28 UTC
5 LY max jump range for a jump freighter? Way to hit the people who live in the outer areas extra-hard, I don't think you thought this through very well.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2905 - 2014-10-02 09:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
I'm very much afraid that if these changes go through as presented here the game will stagnate because it will be too slow. .


This. Some people like the larger scale battles, in fact the only times EVE has hit the headlines and brought in more subcribers than CCP's marketing department ever has is the big fights. With these changes, these sorts of battles will likely never happen again. Those with local supercap dominance will always have a trump card and no one will be able to escalate.

It begs the question of why can't CCP see what the real problem here is: Supercaps and not Carriers, Dreads, JF's or anything else with a jump drive.

Those big fights need to stop. They are a flawless demonstration of why I said fleets move too quickly. With so many reinforcements able to hit the field before a fleet of the size of the one that instigated B-R can decisively win how can you justify starting a fight where you risk you heavy assets? Unless you are so super space rich that nearly any loss is trivial assuming you don't care about the morale loss. It's hardly a wonder why the null sec coalitions are on such good terms given that kind of threat.

What I meant with stagnation resulting from movement being too slow is that these changes will make it nearly impossible to attack anyone who is farther than one jump from your home system especially if one jump is 5ly MAX. Meaning you will have to completely redeploy to fight a war, leaving yourself completely vulnerable to anyone else as it will take you all day and then some to respond to anyone attacking your home. In that case you can't risk fighting a campaign because it will involve dropping you pants to allow you to bend over far enough to reach anyone else. There are few who can resist such temptation. EDIT: I should add here anticipating the "use the gate" response that camping a gate with a large enough force allows you to kill them with TiDi and camping choke systems is not difficult to do, jump drives should provide a meaningful means of circumventing such a defense.

Fleets need to be slowed down but it can not be done in such a heavy handed way. The sweet spot for the speed of fleet movement will be very much like walking on a knife edge but we must find a way to do it.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2906 - 2014-10-02 09:34:10 UTC
Geanos wrote:
Good changes CCP, you outsmarted the CSM sock puppets Big smile. The hypocrisy of the BotLRD is amazing. Cry me a river, we're finally going back playing EVE Online instead of Boredom Online Big smile .
You crybabies will not leave the game and if you do your place will be taken by resubs of those that left the game because of the boredom (cause you know, you made the game boring for everybody) and the newbros.
The tears, oh the tears! Big smile
PS: mimimimimimimiBig smile



You have no idea what you are talking about, just saying.
Prince Kobol
#2907 - 2014-10-02 09:34:15 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

Timers.. how are you going to attack somebodies system which is cyno jammed and defended with Capitals with your small subcap fleet?


With capitals

(read the devblog)



In other words you have no idea

No, capitals can still get in, they just can't cyno in (or back out in a panic if they suddenly decide (ackbar)IT'S A TRAP(/ackbar).


The FC is ever going to jump a fleet of capitals in a system that is heavily defended, gates bubbled and with no way of extracting.
Selexid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2908 - 2014-10-02 09:34:40 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
[quote=TheFairyClinkerBell][quote=Prince Kobol][quote=Aiyshimin][quote=Prince Kobol]
lmao.. yeah like to see a fleet of capitals jumping into a **** load of bubbled and then getting popped...


Well if someone is attacking a cap defended system with caps of their own, they might have subcap support and even scouts on the other side....... Gezuz man.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2909 - 2014-10-02 09:34:54 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
lmao.. yeah like to see a fleet of capitals jumping into a **** load of bubbled and then getting popped...

Well, considering the fact that we're hopefully going towards a sov system where multiple daily fights are in order, not one huge fight every week like we're seeing now, this scenario's not going to be that big of a problem. If you've got enough force, go through, if not, go back to harassing them some more or see if you can't get down that jammer so you can set things up more to your liking.
Pavlakakos
W.A.S.P
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#2910 - 2014-10-02 09:36:11 UTC
Papa Django wrote:
Very nice changes for nullsec :)

Follow theses rules and it will be nice :

1/ Everything in nullsec should be destroyable (including stations)
2/ A big entity should be slow and very hard to maintain

So theses changes are a good start.

Next : Delete ALL npc stations are make them destroyable.


On the principals i agree. However a null station cost as much as a super. One can say "well if a super can be derped, so should a station".... Yes, but a super can move, while a station can't. The only way to equalize a fight between a station and 10 supers would be for uber-doomsdays installed by the owner.

Wanna kill a station? Ok, but it can be done at a certain cost Big smile
Prince Kobol
#2911 - 2014-10-02 09:37:41 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
lmao.. yeah like to see a fleet of capitals jumping into a **** load of bubbled and then getting popped...

Well, considering the fact that we're hopefully going towards a sov system where multiple daily fights are in order, not one huge fight every week like we're seeing now, this scenario's not going to be that big of a problem. If you've got enough force, go through, if not, go back to harassing them some more or see if you can't get down that jammer so you can set things up more to your liking.


lmao
Geanos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2912 - 2014-10-02 09:37:42 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Geanos wrote:
Good changes CCP, you outsmarted the CSM sock puppets Big smile. The hypocrisy of the BotLRD is amazing. Cry me a river, we're finally going back playing EVE Online instead of Boredom Online Big smile .
You crybabies will not leave the game and if you do your place will be taken by resubs of those that left the game because of the boredom (cause you know, you made the game boring for everybody) and the newbros.
The tears, oh the tears! Big smile
PS: mimimimimimimiBig smile



You have no idea what you are talking about, just saying.

Yeah, keep saying that! Tissue? Twisted
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2913 - 2014-10-02 09:38:00 UTC
Selexid wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
I'm very much afraid that if these changes go through as presented here the game will stagnate because it will be too slow. .


This. Some people like the larger scale battles, in fact the only times EVE has hit the headlines and brought in more subcribers than CCP's marketing department ever has is the big fights. With these changes, these sorts of battles will likely never happen again. Those with local supercap dominance will always have a trump card and no one will be able to escalate.

It begs the question of why can't CCP see what the real problem here is: Supercaps and not Carriers, Dreads, JF's or anything else with a jump drive.


Dude you exhale bias... Only SC are a prob? cause the other blob has more?


No, I exhale experience in living in nullsec, owning capitals and generally being fairly active there. These are things you don't have so you're unlikely to do anything but grrr goon.

If you can't see the immediate problem, you probably shouldn't be commenting in a thread like this.
Crimsons Storm
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2914 - 2014-10-02 09:38:20 UTC
I normally avoid posting on forums mainly because whatever is said is either:
a) trolled
b) falls of deaf ears

But I will make an exception here and join those above me in saying that....if these changes go through...u can kiss my 7 accounts goodbye.

utterly appalling idea lacking any sort of reasonable logic

The "suggested" problem
Hot dropping power blocks in supers

Your proposed solution

kill all capitals ??

Whoever come up with this idea needs their head "monkeystomped" and their brain sent back to their mother for a refund....im all for a change...but your suggestions are way overzealous.
Prince Kobol
#2915 - 2014-10-02 09:39:01 UTC
Selexid wrote:


Well if someone is attacking a cap defended system with caps of their own, they might have subcap support and even scouts on the other side....... Gezuz man.


Tell you what.. after this change go and attack Deklein and tell me how it s goes :)
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2916 - 2014-10-02 09:39:02 UTC
I hope all these people unsubbing bring the PLEX prices down a bit. xD
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2917 - 2014-10-02 09:39:15 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ezio Dicostanzo wrote:
CCP I'm 100% with you on this one!
Don't backdown, DO IT!!

now we clearly understand what this "null deal" was all about, and why opposing blocks were all standing behind Mittani's "listen to us cause we're the boss" bullsh*t. Dont listen to them, and dont add more NPC systems/stations !!

btw after reading the null deal and now this dev blog, isn't it obvious that certain CSM members are breaking the NDA and letting Mittani &friends know what you are planning ahead?
Just FYI, the dev blog also states that the sov changes are likely to be occupancy based - exactly what the null deal calls for.

And if you were even remotely awake during fanfest you'd know that power projection changes were very much on the cards. I'm honestly surprised it's taken this long for them to come up. So your tinfoil hat theories that the CSM are breaching the NDA are unfounded.

Honestly I would've thought the sov system changes would suffice, and that the "force projection" change is shaking the stick from the wrong end, but I'm interested to see how the meta'll change to match the new rules, and just how punitive the rules WILL be.
Nah, force projection was always needed. It's too easy to go from one end of the universe to the other with a mass of ships. It's still going to be pretty easy to fly interceptors back and forth and leave ships dotted about all over, but at least it will require travelling rather than sitting on a titan. Occupancy sov without force projection changes would be a recipe for disaster, since it wouldn't stop larger group jumping half way across the map to nuke someone and jumping back at a moments notice. With these changes you'll have to at least partially commit to it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Sigras
Conglomo
#2918 - 2014-10-02 09:39:30 UTC
Ferrocerium Spark wrote:
Someone probably mentioned this before...

CCP please don't make new jump drive changes nightmare for logistic/industiral operations. EvE is already feels like second job so please don't make it more time consuming when it comes to using jump freighters and rorquals.

because Eve didnt exist before jump freighters and rorquals right?

talk about entitlement issues...
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2919 - 2014-10-02 09:41:10 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
lmao.. yeah like to see a fleet of capitals jumping into a **** load of bubbled and then getting popped...

Well, considering the fact that we're hopefully going towards a sov system where multiple daily fights are in order, not one huge fight every week like we're seeing now, this scenario's not going to be that big of a problem. If you've got enough force, go through, if not, go back to harassing them some more or see if you can't get down that jammer so you can set things up more to your liking.


lmao

Let me guess, you're one of those who actually either want 4k fights, or you want to be able to hotdrop everyone from across the map whenever there's a chance of getting anything even remotely juicy. Right?
Selexid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2920 - 2014-10-02 09:41:38 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Selexid wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
I'm very much afraid that if these changes go through as presented here the game will stagnate because it will be too slow. .


This. Some people like the larger scale battles, in fact the only times EVE has hit the headlines and brought in more subcribers than CCP's marketing department ever has is the big fights. With these changes, these sorts of battles will likely never happen again. Those with local supercap dominance will always have a trump card and no one will be able to escalate.

It begs the question of why can't CCP see what the real problem here is: Supercaps and not Carriers, Dreads, JF's or anything else with a jump drive.


Dude you exhale bias... Only SC are a prob? cause the other blob has more?


No, I exhale experience in living in nullsec, owning capitals and generally being fairly active there. These are things you don't have so you're unlikely to do anything but grrr goon.

If you can't see the immediate problem, you probably shouldn't be commenting in a thread like this.


My dear friend i was with RZR for a year, And in Provi for 2 so i know what Null sec is. And tbh I have a way more big grr SC blob than any grr...