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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Mijou Star
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
#2161 - 2014-10-02 01:49:36 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Makalu Zarya wrote:
o7 eve and thanks for all the fish, it's been fun.


Bye. If your sole reason for playing this game is to hot drop everything in sight with impunity, then CCP's cure for cancer is already working.




Thank you for saying that. Lol
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#2162 - 2014-10-02 01:50:59 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Needmore Longcat wrote:
Is today April 1? Capitals taking gates? Jump fatigue? These are some of the worst ideas.

How is a stagnant nullsec going to be fixed by making things take even longer than they do already? How does that make any sense at all?

Absolutely terrible.


Because the tears will improve navigation through your stagnant pond of space. I predict enough that just riding the current of QQ will be faster than bridging.



I dont understand why folk think this is going to make things less stagnant. Sure it will promote localism, but it should act as a tremendous advantage to the local residents, making it much harder to remove them - which means that after an initial shake out - we will be right back to a stagnant null.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Slap Chop
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2163 - 2014-10-02 01:51:00 UTC
Lost touch wrote:
Who the **** pays for EvE with RL money?!?!


I do, for nearly 6 years now having only taken a 3 month break at the end of 2010.

I used to spend a shitload of cash on GTC's also to fund my PVP adventures. I stopped that after Y-2 and the canned response the GM's were giving out about the blackout. Less than a year old and blew over a grand up to that point, glad the GM knocked a little sense into me.

My time is more valuable than what the game pays, i'd rather just spend some cash and buy PLEX so that the few hours I have per week is spent playing a game that I enjoy.
Naoru Kozan
Perkone
Caldari State
#2164 - 2014-10-02 01:51:19 UTC
These changes are great!

Maybe for the newbros you could make it so remote medical clones can be used by players under 10 mil SP or something?

/shrugs
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2165 - 2014-10-02 01:51:33 UTC
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


We can already make any tech 1 ship in nullsec, but tech 2 & some capital components can only be built from materials that spawn in certain areas of space. If you had any idea of what you were talking about then you would understand how stupid your suggestion is & probably wouldn't have made it in the first place.


Jesus, how many goons lost their sense of humour when they found out that they might have to invest some time in the game again?


Do you seriously think we keep a space empire running by never logging in?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
aniel
Guardians of Toutatis
#2166 - 2014-10-02 01:51:59 UTC
what will ido now a cap i cant do in a sub now ?
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#2167 - 2014-10-02 01:53:05 UTC
Sygma wrote:
Balzaamon wrote:
Jump Freighters with 5LY limit? Really?

How someone, who lives in Stain will get to Jita with no docking rights in Catch/Providence???

Simple: he dont get to Jita with 5LY JF.
Oh wait, he can jump to system on route and dont dock, wait to cool down timer on cyno, but wait, theres no cloak on JF...

Also it affects other frontier regions like Period Basis/Feythabolis and many more.

Another knife in the back for smaller alliances without sov, keep it up.


This makes perfect sense. For instance, our corp has lived in Curse since about 2007, as a subcap pvp corp with zero ability to build ships. Basically we import everything from empire by design. By limiting the JF it would really be a giant kick in the sack. By using a 5 AU jump we would double the time it takes to do our Empire runs. It is doable, but would be a giant pain in the ass, it would take time away from pvp and may dissuade some from playing. I can't imagine living in the back end of Stain region where it would take no less than 15 jumps for a single jump freighter. I will be honest and say that I don't have an opinion on PVP capitals because we don't engage in that type of warfare, but damn. You are going to really hurt the independents who despise the sov bs.

We'll just use WHs for logistics. We already use them heavily anyway, so we can easily adapt to not having JFs.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2168 - 2014-10-02 01:53:55 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
NinjaTurtle wrote:
Is it me or does this seems like an uncharacteristically heavy-handed balance pass? Some of these ideas could be great if you applied them more specifically but at this point you're just swinging the bat as you walk through the room. Thumbs down.


It's a much needed heavy hand. This stuff has been talked about for a long time. The idea of spool ups and cool downs are nothing new, and have been advocated by a lot of really major players and thinkers. Further, a great many have suggested removing jump drives altogether or limiting their range even further. I guess you haven't been following this stuff. They are implementing a fairly moderate version of a concept that has been floating around for a LONG time.

We wanted to break up the blocs.

We wanted to get rid of the blue donut.

We asked for stuff just like this or in many cases even tougher nerfs.

I don't know why you people are surprised.

The only shortfall I see is that there hasn't been enough consideration given to just how miserable the life of a JF pilot is. Or how we want to break up the combat pattern but we don't want to jack with Eve's successful economy too seriously. So again, bravo on the combat ships. Show some love to the Rorq and JF pilots please.

But all in all, if you're familiar with the whole power projection issue, I really can't believe you people are surprised, and I can't believe you people aren't thankful that it wasn't more severe.


As an industrialist this destroys the game completely. Remember when mining wasn't even worth it, I promise you those days are coming back.


Depends on how you look at it. Cap sales will likely increase as they will need to be staged and pilots can jump clone to them. So instead of your one cap you shoot around New Eden you may have 5. That's good for industrialists. However, we have already seen compressed ore shortages and the pain that causes for the independent builder. The push to localize industry will benefit the big groups and hurt the independent builders simply because parochialism and insular social groups prevail. I do think the small time industrialists will need access to Jita and will benefit from being able to haul from empire out to deep null. This will also help smaller alliances who will have an increased access to null with these and future changes but may not be in a position to set up an entire industrial juggernaut to support themselves out in deep null. So I have posted it 4 times already in this thread, but will say it again, JFs and Rorqs still need jump range.

I don't think the changes will 'ruin the game' for 'industrialists' as you say, but could amount to a big step backward for a number of industrialists. The changes are great, but please think about the Rorq and JF CCP.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2169 - 2014-10-02 01:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhul Chembull
Celly S wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
As an industrialist this destroys the game completely. Remember when mining wasn't even worth it, I promise you those days are coming back.


Sooner than most folks think when you look at the recent SP and ISK sink that industry has been turned into...
this is without even bothering with the upcoming nerfs to invention.





As much as I dislike the big blocks and their blops, blaps, flaps and in general underhanded tactics, I do understand the necessity of them burning each others titans to the ground so we can have a healthy economy. Without the constant amount of ships being destroyed that "blaps" "blops" , whatever other name you want to use, then the economy dies.

Titans , supers and capitals cost a lot in minerals, it keeps the market healthy. Their destruction is even more crucial. These big alliances will move to sub-caps mostly and get away from having a massive amount of titans. Titans will rarely be destroyed and many people will get rid of their capital ships. It will crash the market so bad its not even funny.

Many of us depend on these asshats for our income. For those of you that are for this, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. I am sorry you can not get first place, but that does not mean that you should take the ability for us that make the ribbons to suffer from your inability to take a region or keep it. Anyhow you think this is a good idea I have a billion dollar bet this is negative ALL AROUND to the market.
uziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2170 - 2014-10-02 01:54:45 UTC
NinjaTurtle wrote:
Is it me or does this seems like an uncharacteristically heavy-handed balance pass? Some of these ideas could be great if you applied them more specifically but at this point you're just swinging the bat as you walk through the room. Thumbs down.


I've always referred to Greyscale as CCP Sledgehammer on podside. Now you know why.

From the formless void's gaping maw, there springs an entity.  Not an entity such as any you can conceive of, nor I; an entity more primordial than the elements themselves. In its wake there will follow a storm, as the appetite of nothing expands over the world. The Prophecy is true. Grayscale has come.
Adasar Fenris
Concordiat
#2171 - 2014-10-02 01:56:01 UTC
It seem seems like that CCP wants to change up null sov by implementing force projection. Fine, that's great. I don't like having to worry about who is going to drop what and when if I **** off the wrong person. I run logistics and it's going to be a royal pain. They already doubled my fuel consumption, now they are reducing my jump range by 66%. Logistics in my jump freighter is going to be a nightmare, let alone getting cyno's coordinated to move the freight around. It's going to be ridiculous. What about for alliances who don't live anywhere near 5 ly's to a NPC station? This seems like a final fix to SOV that would have been implemented at the end of the other 2 phases if they didn't work. Medical clones would probably be better fixed by implementing a timer like jump clones. that way new players can jump down to their new home if they go to null sov space. Or make it so the "home" system of whatever alliance they are in has to have a special, one per alliance only, office in their home station. This would be the only station that you could set a medical clone to remotely. That way new players and old players have to brave the gauntlet to get back to highsec if they have reason to go but new, and consequently old, players can just pod jump down home. It would limit quite a bit of force projection and open up multi pronged attack tactics as well. Hit a large coalition at 2 different places and they may be able to get half way to you via a med clone but they can't immediately jump to the station nearest you and ship up. JDC V is an almost pointless skill now for it's 9x skill train. 40 days for .5 lightyears is a waste of time. I feel like most of the changes are needed but at the same time, we're sacrificing cost of living for these changes. I feel like jf's and rorq's should be immune from the jump range change or have a much more limited nerf to the range because otherwise with the fuel consumption penalty we've underwent this is like a repeated kick in the groin for logistics for anybody doing it.
Mijou Star
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
#2172 - 2014-10-02 01:56:27 UTC
Misaniovent wrote:
This is going to make cap proliferation even worse. Smaller entities will have less to fear from major players, which is a positive, but it also means that carriers and dreads are going to see deployment much more frequently and, when operating local to the homes of the owners, with less effort required from cyno pilots. This means that groups without caps are going to be even more disadvantaged than ever before.

Reducing the size of the map is a good idea, but this is the wrong way to go about it. This strongly favors nullsec entities that have extensive jump bridge networks. Fatigue will help but traveling to new deployments or preparing for fights ahead of time will be much easier for groups that have the transit networks in place compared to groups that will need to move cynos extensively.

I'm also concerned about how jump fatigue will work in fleets. If a group of 50 capital ships needs to move two jumps, but some pilots already have jump fatigue, how does that impact the rest of the fleet? Will everyone else be slowed to their speed?

Finally, you seem to be planning to release these changes in stages. I think I am not the only person who would prefer to see them all released at once. If you really feel that these changes will be for the best, then they need to be released in a way that makes them all coherent and immediately shows the community how they fit together. Making these changes piecemeal is just going to have a negative short and medium-term impact and will not be good for the game.


The fact that your group,Pl and the like can hit any capital you feel like whenever is a bad thing. Yea now smaller groups will be able to use caps in fight.. thats a good thing. Stop crying that you dont hold power over all of space after these changes.
HarlyQ
harlyq syrokos investment station
#2173 - 2014-10-02 01:56:31 UTC
So this only hurts people that can not afford multiple clients that can fly caps. If you do not have more than 3 clients now your unable to do anything. Poor people just got smacked :(
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#2174 - 2014-10-02 01:56:51 UTC
Slap Chop wrote:
Lost touch wrote:
Who the **** pays for EvE with RL money?!?!


I do, for nearly 6 years now having only taken a 3 month break at the end of 2010.

I used to spend a shitload of cash on GTC's also to fund my PVP adventures. I stopped that after Y-2 and the canned response the GM's were giving out about the blackout. Less than a year old and blew over a grand up to that point, glad the GM knocked a little sense into me.

My time is more valuable than what the game pays, i'd rather just spend some cash and buy PLEX so that the few hours I have per week is spent playing a game that I enjoy.


I am in a similar situation, I used to fund 11 accounts total including my Son's 2 accounts and while I have cut down on the number of them, I play to have fun, not to have a second job, so I too pay with RL money mostly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2175 - 2014-10-02 01:57:30 UTC
Adasar Fenris wrote:
It seem seems like that CCP wants to change up null sov by implementing force projection. Fine, that's great. I don't like having to worry about who is going to drop what and when if I **** off the wrong person. I run logistics and it's going to be a royal pain. They already doubled my fuel consumption, now they are reducing my jump range by 66%. Logistics in my jump freighter is going to be a nightmare, let alone getting cyno's coordinated to move the freight around. It's going to be ridiculous. What about for alliances who don't live anywhere near 5 ly's to a NPC station? This seems like a final fix to SOV that would have been implemented at the end of the other 2 phases if they didn't work. Medical clones would probably be better fixed by implementing a timer like jump clones. that way new players can jump down to their new home if they go to null sov space. Or make it so the "home" system of whatever alliance they are in has to have a special, one per alliance only, office in their home station. This would be the only station that you could set a medical clone to remotely. That way new players and old players have to brave the gauntlet to get back to highsec if they have reason to go but new, and consequently old, players can just pod jump down home. It would limit quite a bit of force projection and open up multi pronged attack tactics as well. Hit a large coalition at 2 different places and they may be able to get half way to you via a med clone but they can't immediately jump to the station nearest you and ship up. JDC V is an almost pointless skill now for it's 9x skill train. 40 days for .5 lightyears is a waste of time. I feel like most of the changes are needed but at the same time, we're sacrificing cost of living for these changes. I feel like jf's and rorq's should be immune from the jump range change or have a much more limited nerf to the range because otherwise with the fuel consumption penalty we've underwent this is like a repeated kick in the groin for logistics for anybody doing it.


AMEN
Viceversa
Cancer Therapy
Ginnungagap
#2176 - 2014-10-02 01:59:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Viceversa
A simple conclusion.

CCP doesn't want users to transport their cargoes to deeper and dangerous sites.
and it will form a crucial barrier for small scaled dwellers at NPC null or low sec like Solitude or Aridia.

Isn't it bit against what CCP has spoken?
Jenna Cruz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2177 - 2014-10-02 01:59:53 UTC
Like the ideas so far, but the 5LY max range seems a bit silly tbh.

Perhaps a base of 5LY and tweak current calibration skill to a 10% increase per level...giving a max of 7.5LY?
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#2178 - 2014-10-02 01:59:54 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Celly S wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
As an industrialist this destroys the game completely. Remember when mining wasn't even worth it, I promise you those days are coming back.


Sooner than most folks think when you look at the recent SP and ISK sink that industry has been turned into...
this is without even bothering with the upcoming nerfs to invention.





As much as I dislike the big blocks and their blops, blaps, flaps and in general underhanded tactics, I do understand the necessity of them burning each others titans to the ground so we can have a healthy economy. Without the constant amount of ships being destroyed that "blaps" "blops" , whatever other name you want to use, then the economy dies.

Titans , supers and capitals cost a lot in minerals, it keeps the market healthy. Their destruction is even more crucial. These big alliances will move to sub-caps mostly and get away from having a massive amount of titans. Titans will rarely be destroyed and many people will get rid of their capital ships. It will crash the market so bad its not even funny.

Many of us depend on these asshats for our income. For those of you that are for this, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. I am sorry you can not get first place, but that does not mean that you should take the ability for us that make the ribbons to suffer from your inability to take a region or keep it. Anyhow you think this is a good idea I have a billion dollar bet this is negative ALL AROUND to the market.

The market will be fine. It is a market, so by definition the prices will be set according to demand. If capital construction falls, then mineral prices will fall, that doesn't mean the market isn't healthy so not sure where you are getting that idea from.

The only issue will be that some materials for T2 items are going to become very expensive and it may become prohibitive to use some T2 equipment. That is just my speculation, and CCP could easily tweak it by altering the supply of moon resources.
ollobrains
Alts R Us
#2179 - 2014-10-02 02:00:27 UTC
Well wormholes are quite common from low sec to null and vice versa, a far as logistics goes it might encourage more market orders in low sec, 00 alliances can do their shopping there. Might mean more renter corps, more 00 mining ops, maybe even more localised warfare and wormhole warfare. Theres quite a few tweaks that need to be made to this system ( dont reduce the amount of wormholes compared to what they are now) and maybe buff low sec a bit to make up for the dumb idea of titan doomsdays in low sec, they never worked before. And should be left out now
Wolfhound32
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2180 - 2014-10-02 02:00:48 UTC
As I see it, Logistics will be severely hampered but then again it forces local production into a degree of greater prominence. Massive but loose alliances will fail because they are full of self centered lazy people seeking only personal profit and that wont participate in escort duties. I foresee allot of people getting kicked out of Corps and alliances for not helping with moving assets or being productive. The tight knit smaller alliances will be stronger because they will work together for common goals better and won't be hot dropped every time they turn around. They will be forced to defend smaller regions that are easily accessible to their caps and black ops which, I think, means they wont hold sov over vast regions of empty space making room for others that can't do so now to move in and claim it. Moving caps through gates is great, they will require escorts which makes sub caps important, instead of treated like the bastard children they are now, for the protection of the fleet and webbing caps so they can warp quicker. Getting resources to High Sec for pure profit takes a backseat to using those resources for local production. Getting newbies into null? Install their clones in a rorqual and plan on guarding it in systems it jumps into.