These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2041 - 2014-10-02 00:45:08 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:

We had been asking for this for years anyway.


And we're still waiting.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#2042 - 2014-10-02 00:45:19 UTC
Robert Fortis wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
A lot of people really need to ask, who will these changes hurt the most? I'll give you a hint: It's not groups like CFC, PL or N3, who have the manpower & resources to work our way completely around this.


So why are you the ones crying about it incessantly?


That's they way goon does propaganda. They think they are trying to convince us, but really they are scared.
Melvin Coulter
Abyssal Freighting
High Bear Nation.
#2043 - 2014-10-02 00:45:35 UTC
Just as i was starting my training for caps. Yep, no.

Move along!
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#2044 - 2014-10-02 00:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Davionia Vanshel
Daegara Odenson wrote:
This may have already been mentioned, apologies if so but RE: logistics and the use of JFs for supplying 0.0:

Many people undock from 4-4 in JFs and immediately jump to a cyno to avoid the veritable shitstorm that is the 4-4 undock and the surrounding systems. Under the range limit of 5 light years however that leaves only 2 valid low sec systems that may be jumped to:

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Nomad,0/Jita

Two systems, a small collection of stations, of which one 1 is non-kickout. I'm all in favour of bottlenecks for content but this is the most populous trade hub in new eden would it not be possible to at least get 1 other option? Making max jump range 6 light years would for example offer 22 possible cyno-out points otherwise I can envision JF losses quickly outstripping production and the logistics backbone of new eden tumbling like a house of cards.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Nomad,1/Jita

As it stands now, unless you happen to want to head in that direction already cynoing out of 4-4 as is not a practical option at all.



Burt it is ambiguous as to whether the 5LY range applies to Jump Freighters and Rorquals. As there is the 0.1 multiplier for effective jump range to be considered for all jump calculations under the new mechanic. If that includes the calculation of whether a jump is in range then if the nominal range of a JF was reduced to 5LY then it's effective and actual range would be 50LY.

Bottom line is we don't know what the new jump ranges for Rorquals and Jump Freighters will be.
SSG Keeper
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2045 - 2014-10-02 00:45:49 UTC
CNN just reported:

CCP kills internet in upcoming patch.
Xavi Bastanold
Sveipar Trade and Transport
#2046 - 2014-10-02 00:46:41 UTC
Elise Randolph wrote:
Con't from https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5073593#post5073593 because I post too hard.




However I do understand better than most the issues facing null-sec at the moment, and I fail to see how any of these changes will fix things for the better. Holding space is now more important, so stratops will now have to form earlier. I will simply reduce my offices to strategic locations, have a cache of ships in certain regions, then fly speed fit interceptors to death-clone to my new cache. If you come after my space, I'm going to choose awful timers and form up earlier than you to defend them. I will litter my space with Caldari Outposts so taking it is even more tedious. why? Because that's the easiest solution.

So I implore you CCP if you think this jump-shock **** is a great solution, fine go HAM all over it. But understand what the REAL issues are, and how this alone will only make it that much worse.



It sounds like the shift is more toward a defensive lean. Anyone attacking your system would have to contend with j-fatigue coming in if jumping, or dealing with ambushes and skirmishing across a series of gates, while you sit prepared. If SovNull loses systems following a wide change based on verifiable occupancy, then they will have to be attacked, if lost. All of those systems. And then you're back to the problem of holding them.

A great circle for content, but one that becomes a disadvantage when a Sov faction decides to allow other corporations/alliances to hold old, untenable systems for a fee. A protection fee, as it were. In time that can get interesting in terms of centralization.

Good hunting,

Xavi
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#2047 - 2014-10-02 00:46:45 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:

we only need 1000 man fleets when the rest of the galaxy has shown up
they no longer can


I'm sorry, but you need more than 1000 to crash a node. Anything less will be goon splatter.
Lost touch
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#2048 - 2014-10-02 00:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost touch
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Lost touch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Lost touch wrote:
Smaller entities could just produce in NPC null.. meaning they would have to try and make a living there.

Just letting people who wasent there from the beginning capitals haven't always been in EvE.
EvE was great then it is now and it will still be after this change.
You are not FORCED to use capitals its just convenient for you.

WH's will be more travel'd
Space will have to be utilised
Cant just RR any system that needs defending in 4 regions then go blob provie or somewhere with ****, so you have to plan what NEEDS to be done.

If you just HAVE to post saying i quit then un-sub now and good glad your going bye o7

Either adapt or die simple as that.
Small gang pilots get nerfed all the time and we don't whine we adapt, become stronger.

More tears in thread tho plz :)

CCP Deserve a medal for this kudos


At least you have a name that aptly describes you. Your right we aren't forced to use capitals, we just have to move our supplies we produce to Jita. Space will not be utilized any, you my friend have no idea what is going to happen. It will not effect the big alliances at all, just the smaller ones. WH cant be relied on moving supplies, give me a break. Your casual gamer will go away, which is about damn time I find a good reason. And yeah, after 11 years, I do believe my opinion holds a small amount of weight as I have watched the inception, explosion and straight up decline of the game. Subs will be less for sure after this stupid idea is moved into action. That's right its stupid, my 13 year old could come up with a better idea than this. These ideas have purposed over and over by people that actually play the game.


Really?! coz back in the day smaller alliances use to just convoy things and get people to scout/web indis

Subs wont decline and if they do we will get more players who are happy to use gates.

WH's are pritty reliable in a small region you will easly be able to get to HS,

And the point isent to make things to sell in HS its to make things to USE in Null.


We all use the items we produce in null and we sell them at jita, giving us the best price possible. Ever played this game much ?


If you use them dont sell them then?! logic buy some

Sry misunderstood. Can still produce in HS/LS wont change much tbh.

Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#2049 - 2014-10-02 00:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Davionia Vanshel
Rowells wrote:
Davionia Vanshel wrote:
Question is what are the jump ranges for Rorquals and Jump Freighters going to be?

Blog says "Almost all jump-capable ships will have their range reduced to 5 LY after skills" and "Jump Freighters and Rorquals will gain a role bonus: 90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This means that, for all the math we’re doing on this feature, whenever we use the range jumped as a variable we first multiply it by 0.1"

Thing is when I first use the range jumped as a variable I check to see if I can make the jump. If the jump is 10 LY then effective jump range is 0.1 x 10LY = 1LY so that means if the JF has a jump range of 1LY it can make the 10LY jump right? It does say "all the math" which includes checking to see if the jump is in range?

your doing it wrong.

Jump range = 5LY

90% reduction to jump range when calculated for fatigue


The word fatigue does not appear in this section:

Quote:

What's being special-cased?

Jump Freighters and Rorquals will gain a role bonus: 90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This means that, for all the math we’re doing on this feature, whenever we use the range jumped as a variable we first multiply it by 0.1. We will still likely want to revisit the logistical power of these ships in future, but for now we want to bring them into the new system without nerfing them too hard.
• Black Ops ships will have their range unchanged, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This also keeps the range of their jump portals unchanged. We don’t feel that Black Ops range needs adjustment right now.


I suspect you are right - but a literal interpretation of what is written says otherwise: Bottom line is CCP actually said the 0.1 modifier applies to all the calculations and the calculation of whether a jump is in range is a calculation. This means we do not know for sure.
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#2050 - 2014-10-02 00:49:34 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
bp920091 wrote:
Congratulations CCP, you've made Stain and just about every single NPC 0.0 region uninhabitable.

Good job, I couldnt have created a faster way to kill smaller groups if i tried.


Jump freighters get a 90% reduction in these penalties. Your lack of logic is frightening.


You might want to learn how those logistics work.
Currently jump freighters can supply stain from empire by jumping directly from northern stain to lowsec.
After these changes they will have to jump:
Through stain
Through Catch
Possibly Through provi
to get to lowsec

So the NPC nullsec residents that used to be able to bypass sov space to live there and supply there are now forced to run logistics through sov space putting 7 billion isk assets at great risk for no gain. Not to mention because of the fact that ranges dictate a multi-jump trip even with the role bonus they'll still be facing about 2 hours of 'travel time' to do what they used to be able to do much more quickly.

Logistics to support your corporation is already a pretty thankless job. Making it a 2+hour grind every time you have to do it is just insult to injury. Add on top of it having to pass through hostile sov nullsec means those small nullsec entities trying to run logistics just got evicted without anyone firing a shot.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2051 - 2014-10-02 00:49:40 UTC
Lost touch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Lost touch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Lost touch wrote:
Smaller entities could just produce in NPC null.. meaning they would have to try and make a living there.

Just letting people who wasent there from the beginning capitals haven't always been in EvE.
EvE was great then it is now and it will still be after this change.
You are not FORCED to use capitals its just convenient for you.

WH's will be more travel'd
Space will have to be utilised
Cant just RR any system that needs defending in 4 regions then go blob provie or somewhere with ****, so you have to plan what NEEDS to be done.

If you just HAVE to post saying i quit then un-sub now and good glad your going bye o7

Either adapt or die simple as that.
Small gang pilots get nerfed all the time and we don't whine we adapt, become stronger.

More tears in thread tho plz :)

CCP Deserve a medal for this kudos


At least you have a name that aptly describes you. Your right we aren't forced to use capitals, we just have to move our supplies we produce to Jita. Space will not be utilized any, you my friend have no idea what is going to happen. It will not effect the big alliances at all, just the smaller ones. WH cant be relied on moving supplies, give me a break. Your casual gamer will go away, which is about damn time I find a good reason. And yeah, after 11 years, I do believe my opinion holds a small amount of weight as I have watched the inception, explosion and straight up decline of the game. Subs will be less for sure after this stupid idea is moved into action. That's right its stupid, my 13 year old could come up with a better idea than this. These ideas have purposed over and over by people that actually play the game.


Really?! coz back in the day smaller alliances use to just convoy things and get people to scout/web indis

Subs wont decline and if they do we will get more players who are happy to use gates.

WH's are pritty reliable in a small region you will easly be able to get to HS,

And the point isent to make things to sell in HS its to make things to USE in Null.


We all use the items we produce in null and we sell them at jita, giving us the best price possible. Ever played this game much ?


If you use them dont sell them then?! logic buy some


It called surplus and market availability.
iownuall123
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2052 - 2014-10-02 00:50:33 UTC
So this is what happens when your best devs leave for another company.....
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#2053 - 2014-10-02 00:52:01 UTC
I welcome the changes. Shake Eve up a bit.

To all those who're leaving: o/ see ya!
Lost touch
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#2054 - 2014-10-02 00:52:03 UTC
It called surplus and market availability.


So why cant you just use a freighter and escort it? you dont Need a cap for it

Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2055 - 2014-10-02 00:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Innominate wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

We had been asking for this for years anyway.


And we're still waiting.


Well we have some of the tools now unless I'm missing something.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2056 - 2014-10-02 00:53:32 UTC
Davionia Vanshel wrote:
The word fatigue does not appear in this section:

Quote:
90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations....This means that, for all the math we’re doing on this feature, whenever we use the range jumped as a variable we first multiply it by 0.1.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#2057 - 2014-10-02 00:53:32 UTC
Aryth wrote:
sennett wrote:
i seriously cannot understand this logic.
stop capitals from moving around. a.k.a let the blobs become the dominant force again, take away the one of the tools that alliances used to fight outnumbered?
It goes back to a game of who can beat the 1000 domnis again, this time with no caps. or caps after weeks.
probably not change much. CFC gains space as they field most numbers, other people lose space. smaller alliances still dont get sov as they cannot out blob the larger alliances that already live there.


Mostly accurate. Though I don't think we will gain space as we already hold half the galaxy and that is plenty. We just aren't going to be fighting off some barbarian horde either. Those who think that clearly don't know null.

A lot more would have to change to bring that to pass. I allow for the possibility though that it's coming.


lolz, you're scared.
Xaldafax Caerleon
Veritas Theory
#2058 - 2014-10-02 00:53:56 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Very large fatigue values will take a loooong time to decay, is this too much?
Possibly yes, we'll have a look at this.


You need to regionalize this. If a person is jumping around the same region this shouldn't be nerfed so bad. You can't go anywhere with these numbers.

If you jump in one region and move to another and take another jump then the cooldown should be longer. If you go into a third region it should be even worse.

Basically make it like the inverse of how you do module stacking bonues... eg... like 80% speed of cool down same region, 50% on second region, 25% on 3rd region. So this will cause people to take longer to cross the universe but not make it impossible to move in the same region.

With the way you have it now people can't go anywhere... so much for home defense or staging or even jumping down to just pick up a module ....
Bella Nias
Doomheim
#2059 - 2014-10-02 00:54:11 UTC
Lost touch wrote:
It called surplus and market availability.


So why cant you just use a freighter and escort it? you dont Need a cap for it


50 jumps in a freighter? Not even mentioning babysitting one...
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Scumlords
#2060 - 2014-10-02 00:54:55 UTC
Taram Caldar wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
bp920091 wrote:
Congratulations CCP, you've made Stain and just about every single NPC 0.0 region uninhabitable.

Good job, I couldnt have created a faster way to kill smaller groups if i tried.


Jump freighters get a 90% reduction in these penalties. Your lack of logic is frightening.


You might want to learn how those logistics work.
Currently jump freighters can supply stain from empire by jumping directly from northern stain to lowsec.
After these changes they will have to jump:
Through stain
Through Catch
Possibly Through provi
to get to lowsec

So the NPC nullsec residents that used to be able to bypass sov space to live there and supply there are now forced to run logistics through sov space putting 7 billion isk assets at great risk for no gain. Not to mention because of the fact that ranges dictate a multi-jump trip even with the role bonus they'll still be facing about 2 hours of 'travel time' to do what they used to be able to do much more quickly.

Logistics to support your corporation is already a pretty thankless job. Making it a 2+hour grind every time you have to do it is just insult to injury. Add on top of it having to pass through hostile sov nullsec means those small nullsec entities trying to run logistics just got evicted without anyone firing a shot.



perhaps this will decentralize JITA as well :) accomplishing yet another goal....

BTW its only a 2.95ly jump from Torrinos to 5ZXX-K :)