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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1981 - 2014-10-02 00:20:14 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Aryndel Vyst wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
I'm totally stoked for these changes.

The "I quit" posts in this thread are glorious.


A real change of pace from the mission text you're used to seeing from SoE missions I suppose.

Never ran a level 4 in my life. Why are you always so mad, bro?


Yea, as you can tell by that text I'm just so seething about random Joe Q MoA Pubbie.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1982 - 2014-10-02 00:20:29 UTC
BTW any details on when this hits sisi?
Kruull Death
Supreme Headquarters Alien Defence Organisation
#1983 - 2014-10-02 00:22:04 UTC
Just a couple of questions:

1) What will happen to the SPs for the pilots that trained JDC to level 5? Will these be reimbursed to be used somewhere else? As this was a total waste with this changes.

2) Will certain LY distances be reduced? Example: From Etherium Reach to Forge, 5 LY will change a route from a 1 or 2 jumps to a 8 jumps minimum as the Capiltal Ships will now have to go around through Great Wildlands. Not only the additional jumps will be required but a lot more fuel will be used. An additional impact is that while for the big Alliances/Coalitions this won't matter as much for smaller entities (corps and small alliances) it creates the need to have a lot more cyno alts, while nowdays a well trained capital pilot needs 2 maybe 3 cyno alts.
DaiTengu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1984 - 2014-10-02 00:22:06 UTC
Man this thread is full of people who never took 80 gate jumps in a battleship only to be DD'd by a titan when they arrived at their destination.
Thedaius
Repercussus
#1985 - 2014-10-02 00:22:13 UTC
This is going to grossly affect deep Null sec. As a member of an alliance that lives in the nether regions of null sec these changes will make it nearly impossible for significant logistics.

I like the Jump fatigue idea as a way of slowing down existing capital fleets; although the current proposal seems a bit too significant. The decrease in jump range to 5 LY for Almost* (waiting to see which ships aren't lumped in) all capitals!!!! In most cases you are reducing the jump distance capability by over 50%(Titans 25% and BLOPS 30ish%) and carriers by almost 2/3'd their current range . I should think a less drastic change would cause changes in the overall structure of the game without reducing the far living alliances to logistical nightmares.

The trip outlined in the example from the carrier moving from Dekelin seems hellish and made me basically never want to get into a capital. It sounded so awful and dreadfully slow. I understand increasing accessibility to null sec and increase overall content without the threat of the null sec cap and Scap drops. But this is only going ruin deep null sec.

Unless there is talk about increasing accessible moons and minerals in deep null sec so it's not so difficult to become market independent of major market suppliers...

I am interested in seeing what evolves in this thread; and hope the intensity with which you are attempting to revitalize null sec gets checked by reason; and understand the impact that it will have not only on content; but on logistics and sov warfare as a whole.

Cheers,

Thed
not nightmare
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1986 - 2014-10-02 00:22:56 UTC
the only issue i would see is carrier logistics to null. 5LY jump range is a huge nerf on range, from the 14 and change it is. plus the timer of just going 17LY in the example of over 1700 and a 2 hr wait. thats already 11.8 days of not getting **** done, not being able to defend space at a moments notice due to the next timer being so bad u cant leave space, and not being able to evac from null without it taking weeks.

also on supers and titans, are they now losing their immunity to warp scrams due to their ability to go gate to gate, or are they gonna be the you cant tackle me in low without a hictor still and i can still run away? i feel like this is going to have secondary effects that are unintended from the devs to try and balance the capitals going through gates. are supers going to be able to dock too? i mean if they cant evac in a hurry if their pos is under siege, or make it far when they jump, it makes the potential to kill one higher, and makes it less safe to keep them in null.

plus theres still the clone vat bays, are they dissolving with the patch?
Lost touch
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#1987 - 2014-10-02 00:23:13 UTC
How will this hurt smaller alliances again?!

3 small alliances attack 1 bigger alliance at 3 different points same timers.

Big alliance has to split into 3 groups to defend or 2 and lose the other 1 uncontested.

OR

Big alliance blobs one point and smaller one gets 2 points uncontested.

Now you are gonna think we will just use allys. Well thats is all well and good but they will have to leave their space undefended to help and use caps so subcaps, which takes time.

Logistics isent a problem if the allience is willing to put in the work. Stage from a lowsec and assulting Entry systems for logistical advantage.

Assaulting entity gets easy'r logistics, Defending entity has harder time with his logistics.

Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1988 - 2014-10-02 00:24:36 UTC
Varesk wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Insidious wrote:
getting the general gist of this it hurts the little guy a bit too much


*Every* controversial change hurts the little guy too much. It's good that all the big guys are there to look out for them.



what big guys are you talking about? this is either a joke, which i hope it is, or its shows how clueless you are and how these changes will end up killing off a lot of the smaller alliances.



I must admit being somewhat offended at how little our 20 credits a month gets us in terms of a solution to the nullsec problem. Nerfing nullsec into the ground by making it impossible to transport anything is not the answer to any question other than how to kill EVE.

The more difficult you make living in null, the more those who live there will see how easy real life is and choose to escape EVE by attending to it.
Bill Genovo
Starfield Industries Ltd.
#1989 - 2014-10-02 00:24:45 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Burneddi wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Summer Isle wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0?
Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier.

Make it so you can only change stations if your clone is currently an Alpha clone, but you can only upgrade your clone if you're currently in the station with it. A new character, still in their Alpha clone, could jump into nulsec without difficulty (or anywhere, for that matter), but an older character will either have to sacrifice some SP, or will have to hoof it the long way.


Interesting idea.

You'll have to change SP loss mechanics if you do this, because as they stand that's a false choice; no one will ever pick the SP loss.

Getting podded in an Alpha clone if you have a few dozen million SP means you lose 2-3 weeks of training. That's more than "some SP", and no one will ever pick that option voluntarily.


Yup, in practice I wouldn't expect anyone to use it, but it gives a fairly straightforward way to cap the ability to use this sort of technique to genuine new players only. I'm not saying we'll do it, I just think it's an interesting suggestion to consider :)



This would also solve the problem of JF cyno alts that currently pod jump from office to office in order to position for the next jump. With the nerf to range, more offices are going to be needed to support this as well. Being able to set an Alpha clone to a remote office would allow the cyno toon to make the jump, but still restrict cap pilots from doing it.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1990 - 2014-10-02 00:25:08 UTC
Lost touch wrote:
Smaller entities could just produce in NPC null.. meaning they would have to try and make a living there.

Just letting people who wasent there from the beginning capitals haven't always been in EvE.
EvE was great then it is now and it will still be after this change.
You are not FORCED to use capitals its just convenient for you.

WH's will be more travel'd
Space will have to be utilised
Cant just RR any system that needs defending in 4 regions then go blob provie or somewhere with ****, so you have to plan what NEEDS to be done.

If you just HAVE to post saying i quit then un-sub now and good glad your going bye o7

Either adapt or die simple as that.
Small gang pilots get nerfed all the time and we don't whine we adapt, become stronger.

More tears in thread tho plz :)

CCP Deserve a medal for this kudos


At least you have a name that aptly describes you. Your right we aren't forced to use capitals, we just have to move our supplies we produce to Jita. Space will not be utilized any, you my friend have no idea what is going to happen. It will not effect the big alliances at all, just the smaller ones. WH cant be relied on moving supplies, give me a break. Your casual gamer will go away, which is about damn time I find a good reason. And yeah, after 11 years, I do believe my opinion holds a small amount of weight as I have watched the inception, explosion and straight up decline of the game. Subs will be less for sure after this stupid idea is moved into action. That's right its stupid, my 13 year old could come up with a better idea than this. These ideas have purposed over and over by people that actually play the game.
Bnizzle
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#1991 - 2014-10-02 00:25:45 UTC
I wonder if this will affect Black Frogs Prices?

Space 'strayan
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1992 - 2014-10-02 00:25:53 UTC
DaiTengu wrote:
Man this thread is full of people who never took 80 gate jumps in a battleship only to be DD'd by a titan when they arrived at their destination.

So don't go 80 jumps?
Thedaius
Repercussus
#1993 - 2014-10-02 00:25:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Thedaius
Kruull Death wrote:
Just a couple of questions:

1) What will happen to the SPs for the pilots that trained JDC to level 5? Will these be reimbursed to be used somewhere else? As this was a total waste with this changes.

2) Will certain LY distances be reduced? Example: From Etherium Reach to Forge, 5 LY will change a route from a 1 or 2 jumps to a 8 jumps minimum as the Capiltal Ships will now have to go around through Great Wildlands. Not only the additional jumps will be required but a lot more fuel will be used. An additional impact is that while for the big Alliances/Coalitions this won't matter as much for smaller entities (corps and small alliances) it creates the need to have a lot more cyno alts, while nowdays a well trained capital pilot needs 2 maybe 3 cyno alts.


1) "after skills" JDC5 will likely be a requirement for all capital pilots; 5 L Y is the max distance with skills; your distance will be decrease based on your JDC skill; JDC 1 will be awful you might not be able to jump more than a system or two lol; if I'm reading it correctly.

2) The example they give and the details already provided basically state "no". you will have to make all of the jump and have the significant timers doing it.

The reason they gave JF's and Rorquals the 90% reduction in Jump fatigue was to not so drastically reduce logistics that it may still be viable to live in those highly distant regions....
Darirol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1994 - 2014-10-02 00:26:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Darirol
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Summer Isle wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0?
Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier.

Make it so you can only change stations if your clone is currently an Alpha clone, but you can only upgrade your clone if you're currently in the station with it. A new character, still in their Alpha clone, could jump into nulsec without difficulty (or anywhere, for that matter), but an older character will either have to sacrifice some SP, or will have to hoof it the long way.


Interesting idea.



that doesnt stop people from instantly moving cynoalts around.

cynoalts have usually around 500k skillpoints and if they are in a corp that provides a huge office network, you can move this cynoalt everywhere within 3 minutes.

iam not sure if that is such a huge problem with those new changes, but right now i need like 10 minutes to establish a complete new cynochain from delve to venal or cloud ring to curse.



edit:

also while iam not sure about all the details, i like the general direction of these changes.
i make all my money with jumpfreigther related things and i do all my pvp with titan bridges or dread/super jumpdrives and iam not sure how this will impact my personal eve experience, but iam 100% sure that eve needs a change in that direction
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1995 - 2014-10-02 00:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Robert Fortis wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
A lot of people really need to ask, who will these changes hurt the most? I'll give you a hint: It's not groups like CFC, PL or N3, who have the manpower & resources to work our way completely around this.


So why are you the ones crying about it incessantly?


I know it's more convenient for you to believe that I don't care about other people, but I do. I'm tired of having to get smaller groups that I'm on friendly terms with a place in the CFC just so they can do things in nullsec.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#1996 - 2014-10-02 00:26:59 UTC
Max Rico wrote:
I'm stoked for these changes. No longer can massive null empires control half the map and rent the land. Nothing would make me happier then to watch said empires crumble and all of null become nothing but raw anarchy and lawlessness that it should be. CCP, forget the haters, this is the best change I've seen in a long time.

/agree

Screw the crybabies. Make us a fine ale of their tears. And anyone who wants to quit, I kan haz ur lootz pl0x?

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Asher Lethalious
Corwan Academy
Kanen Federation
#1997 - 2014-10-02 00:27:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Asher Lethalious
Player built star gates should allow systems to be redeveloped from a star gate map perspective. This will then allow gate points to be strategic and even get within the 5/10LY distance for fleets to limit fatigue. I see this then working to make corps be strategic in expansion plans and deliberate in taking over other corp space one system at a time.
Heat-seeking Moisture Missile
Deep Thought Labs
#1998 - 2014-10-02 00:27:16 UTC
Bnizzle wrote:
I wonder if this will affect Black Frogs Prices?


I wonder if they'll fold up shop! Big smile
ViRUS Pottage
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1999 - 2014-10-02 00:28:03 UTC
As if this game didn't take up enough time as it is..

Time to check out star citizen and unsub from greyscales short fat ugly fatigue dogshit
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2000 - 2014-10-02 00:28:11 UTC
Kruull Death wrote:
Just a couple of questions:

1) What will happen to the SPs for the pilots that trained JDC to level 5? Will these be reimbursed to be used somewhere else? As this was a total waste with this changes.

They'll still affect Jump drives to get the max 5LY, however the blog did mention looking at them later after affects setteled.
Quote:
2) Will certain LY distances be reduced? Example: From Etherium Reach to Forge, 5 LY will change a route from a 1 or 2 jumps to a 8 jumps minimum as the Capiltal Ships will now have to go around through Great Wildlands. Not only the additional jumps will be required but a lot more fuel will be used. An additional impact is that while for the big Alliances/Coalitions this won't matter as much for smaller entities (corps and small alliances) it creates the need to have a lot more cyno alts, while nowdays a well trained capital pilot needs 2 maybe 3 cyno alts.
The new shortest distance now is actually to use the regional gate to forge in any capital. It may be harder if you want to avoid camps but its faster and cheaper if you do it properly.