These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Pic'n dor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1081 - 2014-10-01 20:25:54 UTC
supers can fit in gates so they can fit in stations... docking super anyone ?

COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE
Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#1082 - 2014-10-01 20:26:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ripard Teg
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
If this change goes in, please make jump-cloning incur jump fatigue at some (likely greatly reduced) level.

The goal: to prevent super-large, super-rich alliances from just building caches of capitals/supers at various NPC 0.0 or low-sec staging points around the galaxy, and just getting to them by jump-cloning (and in so doing, avoiding jump fatigue).


Jump cloning is not a thing we want to touch more than we can help at this point, it's a larger topic.

Yes, caching is going to be something of a thing, but the amount of caches you need to get good coverage of the bulk of the cluster is large (somewhere on the order of 1 per region), and the effort involved in restocking them is distinctly non-trivial.

k, as long as you recognize that the number of regions where fights actually occur is going to be a fairly low number, particularly initially and particularly given the terrain you're introducing to the game. Back of the envelope calcs suggest you could get quite good coverage of the hot areas with caches in five areas: central Derelik, Delve, north-central Lonetrek, central Heimatar/southern Metropolis, and Tash Murkon. Putting a couple hundred carriers and dreads in these five locations is quite doable for the largest alliances. Putting caches in every region is unnecessary and pointless since...

As a side effect, this change also makes the north, southeast, and northeast much more easily defensible since the systems in that area are both isolated from convenient low-sec patches and quite spread out geographically. Again, my back of the envelope calc suggests that much of Deklein is going to be three jumps from Pure Blind. Under this new system, that's a lot. And that's a short jaunt compared to trying to hunt in Outer Passage or Cobalt Edge.

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Matchrthom
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1083 - 2014-10-01 20:26:41 UTC
Ok, as a low sec corp, this seems like a decent step in the right direction. Getting Blops for the smallest fleet really is not amusing.

But how about this for an idea. We already have interdictors in nullsec, how about a mobile cyno jamming ship? You get on gate, pop your cyno jamming bubble and prevent cynos until the ship is popped. It could make use of the interdictor and heavy interdictor hulls, new module and skills, with increase in the skill reducing anchoring times or increase range.

It would also add another incentive for caps to use gates, and give the smaller corps and alliance another tool in PVP.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1084 - 2014-10-01 20:26:47 UTC
i feel i should note that with the end of the power projection era, the chance for pl to avenge its loss in b-r has forever ended

the supercap crown will now forever reside in deklein on the brow of the king of space, and pl will forever be second-best
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1085 - 2014-10-01 20:27:03 UTC
This thread has a distinct lack of sad violin music.

On topic, all I have to say is: about frigging time.
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1086 - 2014-10-01 20:27:08 UTC
Solitary Pal wrote:


I then stopped and realised "Wow these changes are hugely beneficial to me and most people for many reasons"


I'm failing to see why slowing down game play and introducing more timers in any way is beneficial to the real human being giving up their time to play this game.

I see how it can restructure the balance of sov null and lowsec for capitals and sub capitals dramatically, and even make the field more friendly to my alliance.

But only in we measured "friendliness" in terms of "winning eve by gaining more sov." I personally measure friendliness by how quickly I can blow up my internet spaceship.

Making me wait hours for my jump timer to expire so make the next jump then possibly days before I can jump into a battle (otherwise who would jump in to a battle with more than 0 initial jump fatigue as they have no hope of jumping out) doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun.

The whole notion that the fix for anything in a game is making people do nothing for long periods of time is absolutely and startlingly absurd...

Unless... wait... will we be able to buy gems, I mean, plex to shorten our jump fatigue? Ahhhhhh borrowing a bit from clash of clans to ramp up revenues? Smart... very smart.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#1087 - 2014-10-01 20:27:39 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Will cyno jammers stop caps jumping in through your gate?

no, since gates dont use cynos Blink

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Kat Ayclism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1088 - 2014-10-01 20:28:02 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Irya Boone wrote:
words


Just to make sure everyone's aware, doomsdays can't be fired at subcaps.

Why not- after this? (Serious question)
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1089 - 2014-10-01 20:28:24 UTC
Rroff wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Rowells wrote:
is there any concern for seiged dreads hugging gates and then jumping at all or is this moot? Not that I don't like it but I'm curious.


Should be treated the same way as stations. I'll double-check tomorrow that it's set up correctly.


I'd assume you can hug gate or siege/triage fully aligned to the gate from about 50km, deagress, exit triage/siege cycle and jump and assuming the gate hasn't been backstopped with bubble spam (which encouraging would be a very bad thing) then jump to an exit cyno and most times escape.


If you're attacking a dread sitting sieged on top of a gate and you don't have tackle in place on the other side by the time his cycle is over, I'm not sure you really deserve the kill tbh.

Dave Stark wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Yes, but it's a thing we're still not happy with the state of. We're going to discuss this specific issue more tomorrow, with the aim of coming up with a reasonable solution that deals with the newbie use case without opening the door to more general problems. Stay tuned for more info.


remote installation of jump clones. given certain criteria.


Yup, that's another way into it.

Solitary Pal wrote:
My first thought was "Oh no they let that cretin Greyscale loose again"

My second thought was "They're changing fundamental gameplay? HOW DARE THEY" rage rage rage

I then stopped and realised "Wow these changes are hugely beneficial to me and most people for many reasons"

I'm now very excited to see how this plays out, good fights for all!


Thanks... I think?

Scarlet Intelis wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Scarlet Intelis wrote:

D: Sorry small alliances with one or two Titans. Large alliances with 50 Titans can continue to throw toons into the battle, but you have to deal with your one Titans cooldown and jump fatigue while they just switch to another Titan.


Like those two titans would have stood any chance against the massive superfleet of the large alliance.


You're misunderstanding. What I'm saying is with the cool down timer for moving toons through a Titan's Jump Portal, alliances with a small number will be impacted for more than alliances with a larger number. While 1 Titan is cooling down, a larger alliance will just use another. Small groups don't have that option.


Titan pilot doesn't get fatigue for other ships using their bridge.

Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
@Greyscale Thanks for taking a second pass at Black Ops. You might want to consider a JF-style role bonus for reducing the jump shock for black ops bridged ships (with numbers appropriately tweaked) as a starting point.

I also want to echo a suggestion earlier in this thread to consider expanding the size of carrier SMA. For small PVP groups like ours where assembled+rigged ships are the majority of our logistics and most of the non-personal hauling is done by the same 3-4 carriers a little help there would go a long way.


We'll have a look at that.
Koppite
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#1090 - 2014-10-01 20:28:57 UTC
been playing since 2006...dont think ill be seeing much more after this stupidity Ugh
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1091 - 2014-10-01 20:29:25 UTC
VFK by ... oh wait, jump fatigue calculations... ... hmmm.... uhm..... ok never
HELLphoenix1
xHELLonEARTHx
#1092 - 2014-10-01 20:29:39 UTC
Good job CCP, EVE needs a big shake up and here it is!

i think you will find that everyone who is saying they will un-sub are part of the problem we are in now, you will get much more people re-sub after this
Ayrlyn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1093 - 2014-10-01 20:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayrlyn
I really don't think decreasing mobility is going to decrease stagnation. Those two things tend to be inversely proportional. I agree that it's a problem that needs to be solved, but cutting jump ranges and exponentially increasing jump cooldowns isn't going to shake up nullsec. Mobility favors the smaller folks, that's why guerilla tactics involve skirmishing and speed. That's also why you (CCP) designed the Minmatar doctrine based around mobility to counter the Amarr. These changes also have the side effect of severely impacting another meta, nomadic corporations.

How will this be explained in the lore? How is jump fatigue to be tied into the Eve canon? What correlation did CCP/the CSM make when determining that stagnation would be reduced in this way?
CAPITAN PROHuH
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1094 - 2014-10-01 20:29:48 UTC
this is the worst idea of all, many of the players then just walk away from the game, instead of correcting the existing problems you want to spoil the game completely. can not think of anything interesting, then At least do not spoil what is
EarthQuake51a
Quebec's Underdog League
Quebec United Legions
#1095 - 2014-10-01 20:30:09 UTC
Right... Cyno Jammers will be useless (making titan/super production very risky), capitals and supers can go trough gate...

Wait...

Does that mean a completely "mobile"wrecking ball fleet can just burn sov in any region in eve in less than 3 days? (no wonder the TIDI it would generate)

I can't imagine EVE like that...
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Scumlords
#1096 - 2014-10-01 20:30:36 UTC

Jump fatigue affects people taking bridges from what I understood.


Yup.


THIS IS PURE GOLD JERRY

use your precious JB network..and suck up some jump fatigue.... NO MORE JB hopping ahead of subcaps fleets ..you are gonna have to chase us gate to gate....

the permutations are endless....

or maybe you get trapped near locals and cant bring any more support ..

or maybe JB in subcaps only to be crushed by locals using their carriers..... that would be pure GOLD!!!!

OHHH the goonie tears are so awesome....

bp920091
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#1097 - 2014-10-01 20:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: bp920091
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
As it stands, I believe this plan, while interesting is going to kill off T2 production in EVE, especially nullsec. There is no possible way to move large quantities of moongoo easily anymore.


It's going to have a significant impact, to be sure, and that's something we need to keep an eye on. At the same time, though, people built T2 ships and modules before jump freighters existed, so we're somewhat skeptical of the argument that that T2 construction is impossible without JFs.



You do realize that back then, there either was little to no T2 producton before carriers (remember the days of 110m covert cloaks) or people used carriers with industrial ships in them to get 200k m3 or so in cargo.

This will kill the T2 industry, the ONLY way around that is to reshuffle moons, especially R8/32 moons, so you dont have to go ACROSS EVE to get the components you need, as it's going to be dramatically diffiuclt now.

It wont make supply impossible, it'll simply cut supply by 75%+ on key materials (carbide components). Any economist will tell you that a drop in supply and an inelastic demand will give you a drastic increase in the costs of materials (depending on how inelastic the demand is, the price will just keep increasing)
Etienne Picard
Knights of the Posing Meat
#1098 - 2014-10-01 20:30:53 UTC
This will alienate a lot of elite pvp'ers and veterans from the game. I'm all for making it easier for small alliances to exist - but what about those that have invested literally YEARS into skills for capitals?


For some of us, the only real 'buzz' we get from EVE any more is when we fly capitals.


I think this is a very poor decision that needs to be reversed at the earliest opportunity.
AssandTits
Doomheim
#1099 - 2014-10-01 20:31:03 UTC
Thalesia wrote:
Excellent changes CCP Dev team, I am really pleased that such a large number of cockroaches from large null-sec alliances have comitted themselves to leaving eve already.

This will:
a) Open up eve to players not wishing to participate in the insane large null-sec alliance hiearchy.

b) spark a massive amount of local capital fights on a more even playing field without one side being bailed out from the the other side of the galaxy by someone without a stake in the fight.

c) get ridd of an enormous amount of human garbage from PL and Goonswarm, both bloated and rotten alliances that hold way too much sway in too much of the game's content.

d) take away alot of the options to circumvent confrontations, and by extension creating more content for everyone.

I sincerly hope you manage to withstand the massive lobbying effort being undertaken by the large null-sec alliances wishing to controll game design.


And how pray tell will the attacking force arrive at said battlesite? Through the magic of wishful thinking and lack of intelligent analysis perhaps?

Hai gais can youz waitz fo uz, we iz trappez cause we got 44 days till we can haz jump again

Seriously READ what is being proposed before verbally crapping yourself next time
Glasgow Dunlop
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1100 - 2014-10-01 20:31:07 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:
VFK by ... oh wait, jump fatigue calculations... ... hmmm.... uhm..... ok never


by traversing a wormhole to get there . . .

@glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet

TDSIN Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' for more info, Join today!

Glasgow EVE Meets Organiser