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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1061 - 2014-10-01 20:21:02 UTC
Rowells wrote:
The jb timer thing reminded me, will caps be able to use jbs as well as gates?


Not in the current plan, no, but that's reasonably easy to change.

Two step wrote:
Has any concern been given to show players what their cooldown/fatigue would be *before* they jump? Perhaps a tooltip on the timer showing the max possible cooldown after a 5LY jump?


We intend to both tell you in the tooltip what your post-jump cooldown will be, and also hopefully in the context menu etc when you actually execute the jump. Because the cooldown is based on your pre-increase fatigue, it's not variable based on distance traveled. (I think this is true, I've been in this thread for three hours and my brain is hurting a little.)

Forlorn Wongraven wrote:
CCP Greyscale: Will jump fatigue cool down while an account is unsubbed? Because when **** hits the fan and I jump as soon as possible because my spacebros need help my super won't be able to jump again for a cpl of months and i cba to keep an account just subbed for that?!


No plans to restrict it from decaying while unsubbed currently.

Callic Veratar wrote:
I have a couple proposals, not sure if anyone has mentioned them, but this thing is growing faster than I can read...


The rather than decay scaling by just light years, have it scale by light years * hull decay factor. Building this in from day 1 has a bunch of advantages. If titans and super carriers still project to easily, the factor can be bumped up from 1.0 to 1.1. Every ship will be affected because of jump portals and jump bridges. It makes sense that a carrier has a 1.0 factor, but if a black ops has 0.1, why not let all the recons and covert ops ships also be 0.1. The average frigate should be 0.2 or 0.3. Cruisers 0.4 and battleships 0.6.

Moving a fleet of big ships around rapidly is hard, but smaller ships can be moved more easily. With this change, jumping an interceptor is the same as jumping a titan. Make jumping the interceptor as efficient as gating an interceptor.


Capability to do this is built into the system already, that's how we're special-casing jump freighters.

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
@CCP GREYSCALE

I love all of this- but one qualm I have with it is the length fatigue can extend to- I feel like there should be some hard limit to prevent players from having to wait absurd amounts of time to use a jump drive again- nothing of significande, maybe maye the maximum a week or around there.

Still- I love all of this!

Keep it comin'- this will be great Smile


Yup, this is a thing we might end up doing.

Xorth Adimus wrote:
It will mean people with massed capitals already in system will always win, travel with a cap fleet /sub cap fleet large enough to counter this will be so epicly tedious, that noone will bother.


Massing all your capitals in one system becomes a fairly major strategic decision after these changes; if they're there, they're not somewhere else.
Erin Crawford
#1062 - 2014-10-01 20:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Erin Crawford
Solecist Project wrote:
Wow, what a thread naught.

That's an understatement!
I was just reading this page, 52, and by the time I got to the bottom of it, hit refresh and page 54 appeared! Shocked

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#1063 - 2014-10-01 20:21:09 UTC
@Greyscale Thanks for taking a second pass at Black Ops. You might want to consider a JF-style role bonus for reducing the jump shock for black ops bridged ships (with numbers appropriately tweaked) as a starting point.

I also want to echo a suggestion earlier in this thread to consider expanding the size of carrier SMA. For small PVP groups like ours where assembled+rigged ships are the majority of our logistics and most of the non-personal hauling is done by the same 3-4 carriers a little help there would go a long way.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
ArmyOfMe
African Atomic.
#1064 - 2014-10-01 20:21:25 UTC
Can all NC., PL and goon members that are leaving the game contract their stuff to me, i promise i will put it to good use, and not to create a big blue donut.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Ranamar
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#1065 - 2014-10-01 20:21:43 UTC
Balzaamon wrote:
Jump Freighters with 5LY limit? Really?

How someone, who lives in Stain will get to Jita with no docking rights in Catch/Providence???

Simple: he dont get to Jita with 5LY JF.
Oh wait, he can jump to system on route and dont dock, wait to cool down timer on cyno, but wait, theres no cloak on JF...

Also it affects other frontier regions like Period Basis/Feythabolis and many more.

Another knife in the back for smaller alliances without sov, keep it up.


While I sympathize, it's worth noting that Rorquals will now be able to go into hisec... and a fully cargo-expanded Rorqual has a hold (plus fleet hangar) of about half a JF's cargohold while using half the fuel. It also, importantly, has a high slot to fit a cloak in. It'll suck to retrain for Rorquals, but you'll have a cloakable JF now if you do.
Migui X'hyrrn
No More Dramas Only Llamas
#1066 - 2014-10-01 20:21:49 UTC
Some changes are good or seem good over the paper but might have unintended consequences that hurt the little guy.

By little guy I mean the guy that cannot afford to have his jumping toys and has to pay to get their stuff moved around.

Deployments for fun can become a huge nightmare if not directly ridiculous.

Good luck if you dont have 100 supers to move them together, because if it was already scary to move alone, now it is deadly.

The shape of your region is ****** up? Good luck with your trapped capitals because you can't mid in hostile territory. Or good luck trying to hit something in, lets say, Fountain for example. Ah you don't have range and with a single cynojammer you are done.

CCP this changes are in the good direction but you have to realize that making things more annoying is not equal to balance.

It doesn't matter if a super fleet needs 2 hours instead of 20 minutes, the hammer will drop anyways.

If you implement this start thinking in changing the shape or moving stars around otherwise it will only isolate some regions that will become even safer than before.

Migui is running for CSM10!
JustSharkbait
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1067 - 2014-10-01 20:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: JustSharkbait
Overall, I don't have an issue with most of this. Some tweaking I am sure is due. However, my biggest concern is the medical clone issue, and the Jump Freighter/Rorqual changes.

The medical clone changes needs to be looked at a lot more. It will become the main way to move around EVE after the proposed changes, however, it is already so important for logistical reasons that something to facilitate travel around EVE is needed. The bottom line is EVE is not regionlized--not just from a "move caps all over" way--but from a logistical way it is important to be able to move around the game world and medical cloning is how it is done.

As someone who has used JF and rorqual in my time in EVE, I can say that I would not have a problem with JF fatigue, if the range were kept the same or increased to current carrier level.

Aside from that, I see these changes to be a good start. I LOVE the caps using gates in null/low. that is a good balance and a great way to encourage all types of groups to use them more.

Hoo Ha Ha!!
Daron Annus
Excel Pens
#1068 - 2014-10-01 20:23:24 UTC
Scarlet Intelis wrote:
Daron Annus wrote:
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Daron Annus wrote:
ccp,

can you explain the reasoning behind not putting the limits/nerfs on the cyno itself...vs on every capital?
...

Because that would do nothing to prevent the "big guys" from moving hundreds of caps across the galaxy in a few minutes. They would just put up more cynos.


having a need for 100 cynos to move 200 ships would most certainly be a significant drawback to moving a large fleet IMO.



Like most changes this will devastate smaller groups, and just mostly be an inconvenience for larger groups. This will make it nearly impossible to assault someone like CFC.


I guess Im missing how thats the case is all.

again, please concede that im just throwing out random numbers, surely the scale and actual amount can be tweaked to make it more reasonable.

I guess my point was that applying a change to all capital ships isnt the best solution possible, given that the goal is only to limit blobs and ease of movement for LARGE fleets.
Verantis Cristo
Unsung Heroes
#1069 - 2014-10-01 20:23:25 UTC
CCP have you ever heard the statement "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

**** aint broke, so stop breaking stuff which works perfectly fine.

Why are you pissing about with mechanics which effect so many but in the smallest of ways.

Are you trying to find something to do, hell thats easy, give us the thing you promised for the past god knows how many years.

Fix the corp roles and the damn pos's not forgetting also the fleet roles and boosts.

CCP keep this up and you will have 1 of 2 things happen, another jita riots or a massive loss in subscribers. You are aware you do have alot of competitors out there.

People only play a game while it is enjoyable, this and additional recent changes are the reason people lose interest and leave.

So, like I said stop breaking ****.
Catt Stevens
Karusaka Family
#1070 - 2014-10-01 20:23:52 UTC
KARUSAKA FAMILY APPROVES ALL THESE CHANGES


The royal family of New Eden had this to say on the recent announcement of force projection changes:
Fumika Karusaka (Head of the Karusaka Family) -
Quote:
"We believe that change is a good thing, this will allow people who have left New Eden to return to simply see what it is like now with so much change happening as well as allowing the people who have not yet experienced New Eden to come and see how amazing it really is."


Dante Karusaka (Founder of the Karusaka Family) -
Quote:
"This is one of the steps to evolving this universe to keep up with the new age of gaming and in order to keep new blood here and still give good change to old blood. While some of you may see this as a negative change, I implore you to realise that we as humans do not like change, however change is not a bad thing. We all need it, however we will not admit it until we see for our self's that it is actually a good thing."


Well as you can see the new changes may be frightening and hard to even think about in a positive light but the Karusaka Family has given it their blessing and so should you capsuler!


AttentionMay you all fly safe and enjoy this amazing universe of New EdenAttention
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1071 - 2014-10-01 20:23:52 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
For all these people screaming about the JF nerf:

Where have you been for the past several years? What they've been trying to do is push nullsec to focus more on self-sufficiency and manufacturing their own supplies rather than the frankly ludicrous idea that you should be pulling in all your goods from hisec trade hubs.
You've been used to the ability to hop across the galaxy for lightning speeds for so long you've lost sight of how absurd and unbalanced that is as a game mechanic. You're not SUPPOSED to be able to have field control over the entire galaxy, or the ability to truck things from wherever you want to. Distance being an actual barrier to travel is realistic and it's been way too damn long for something like this coming. +1 and keep it coming.

Just make sure that with the next phase you focus on more constructive vs destructive changes for groups, since these huge null groups need more incentive to produce all their goods locally.

Incentive to do a thing is useless without the ability. Bring back drone alloys and this can work.
g0sh
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1072 - 2014-10-01 20:24:01 UTC
RIP CCP... make theses changes and see most of your subscribers go... and your company go in the process... o7
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1073 - 2014-10-01 20:24:02 UTC
So why exactly does stuff always have to be over done?

Capitals jumping trough gates? Thats just plain wrong....

Why not just add a Jump Drive cooldown.
1st jump 5 min cooldown, 2nd jump 10 min cooldown, 3rd jump 20 min cooldown. etc etc Jump counter resets 24 hours after last jump.
limit the jump range to 5 - 8 LY depending on ship.
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#1074 - 2014-10-01 20:24:05 UTC
CCP: Guys! Guys! RELAX!!!! Don't you remember when you didn't even have jump freighters and carriers for living in 0.0?

Players: Yep... and there were only 20,000 subscriptions back then too.... bring on the good ol' days!

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1075 - 2014-10-01 20:24:11 UTC
Ranamar wrote:

While I sympathize, it's worth noting that Rorquals will now be able to go into hisec... and a fully cargo-expanded Rorqual has a hold (plus fleet hangar) of about half a JF's cargohold while using half the fuel. It also, importantly, has a high slot to fit a cloak in. It'll suck to retrain for Rorquals, but you'll have a cloakable JF now if you do.
nope
ZooLand3r
Myron Enterprises
#1076 - 2014-10-01 20:24:28 UTC
I believe ccp might make some crazy changes to try and improve EVE from time to time but they should make eve better with these changes because something is obvisouly wrong with the current system.

BUT if a certain person is not happy with CCP's changes CCP should offer liquid isk and compensasion for the ship they spent time to get or real life money to get eg a super / titan back just incase the ships loose there value.

GO TEAM CCP !!!
Sez Russell
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1077 - 2014-10-01 20:24:31 UTC
Well if this comes in! i'm gone still must look on the bright side i will save me £50 per month Smile
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1078 - 2014-10-01 20:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Correct me if I'm wrong as its not an aspect of eve I'm overly familiar with - but this would mean you could camp a low->null gate (especially regional gates) with supers/dps thannies running remote energy reps so your not dropping below jump cap with almost full immunity other than having to wait out the aggression timer for jumping the gate? then if something came along you couldn't handle you'd just jump gate then jump to exit cyno?
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#1079 - 2014-10-01 20:25:25 UTC
Scarlet Intelis wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Scarlet Intelis wrote:

D: Sorry small alliances with one or two Titans. Large alliances with 50 Titans can continue to throw toons into the battle, but you have to deal with your one Titans cooldown and jump fatigue while they just switch to another Titan.


Like those two titans would have stood any chance against the massive superfleet of the large alliance.


You're misunderstanding. What I'm saying is with the cool down timer for moving toons through a Titan's Jump Portal, alliances with a small number will be impacted for more than alliances with a larger number. While 1 Titan is cooling down, a larger alliance will just use another. Small groups don't have that option.

It's not the bridging titan who gets the fatigue, it's the ships using the bridge.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1080 - 2014-10-01 20:25:53 UTC
Will cyno jammers stop caps jumping in through your gate?