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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Kant Boards
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#681 - 2014-10-01 19:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kant Boards
Taram Caldar wrote:
And the hit to deep 0.0 entities is just crazy... Folks living in places like Omist, Feythabolis, Paragon Soul, Drone Regions, etc are going to have 10+ jumps just to get to empire for logistics. Jump Freighters and Rorquals should be exempt from the range changes. This will severely hurt logistics, especially for folks living in deep 0.0, otherwise.

Citizens of the drones regions and deep south should join the Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere today before Vale of the SIlent fills up, which just so happens to be one jump from Jita Smile
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#682 - 2014-10-01 19:06:24 UTC
Ranamar wrote:
Nobody seems to have commented on this, so...
When you say 5LY range, is that JDC V range?
Training JDC V sucks. Can I convince you to reduce the multiplier on the JDC skill and increase the base jump range on capitals to compensate?

Also, am I reading things correctly that the orange (no jump activation) timer gets set to whatever the blue (jump fatigue) timer says when you jump? (with it bottoming out at 1 minute) That seems like a nice, easy explanation that doesn't require any math beyond "Your jump fatigue gets multiplied after your jump." If it's not that, it really needs a better explanation.


5 LY at max skills. Skill balance is a thing we need to look at at some point, for sure.

Orange timer gets set to essentially 10% of the blue timer on jump, otherwise fatigue is always 0 when you jump. We're trying to make sure that it's clearly explained in the tooltips.

Makari Aeron wrote:
As it stands, I believe this plan, while interesting is going to kill off T2 production in EVE, especially nullsec. There is no possible way to move large quantities of moongoo easily anymore.


It's going to have a significant impact, to be sure, and that's something we need to keep an eye on. At the same time, though, people built T2 ships and modules before jump freighters existed, so we're somewhat skeptical of the argument that that T2 construction is impossible without JFs.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#683 - 2014-10-01 19:06:32 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
Andski wrote:
With these changes, the west is practically guaranteed to be held by us until either our organizational structure collapses or the servers die. But apparently it's ~goon tears top kek~


Enjoy your nocontent go rat in you're ishtar goonie. LolLolLolLol

Most of our leadership does not rat. I know I haven't in years. Herding cats is a full time job.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Ripard Teg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#684 - 2014-10-01 19:06:37 UTC
Haven't had time to read all 34 pages to see if anyone has already brought this up:

If this change goes in, please make jump-cloning incur jump fatigue at some (likely greatly reduced) level.

The goal: to prevent super-large, super-rich alliances from just building caches of capitals/supers at various NPC 0.0 or low-sec staging points around the galaxy, and just getting to them by jump-cloning (and in so doing, avoiding jump fatigue).

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
phalanx III
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#685 - 2014-10-01 19:06:44 UTC
I weep for those that think this is a bad thing.

This is amazing.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#686 - 2014-10-01 19:07:04 UTC
much needed nerf .. however i'm very concerned about the capitals in high sec comment... that would be a very bad idea

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Bobmon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#687 - 2014-10-01 19:07:12 UTC
So it takes 7 months to travel from 6vdt to VFK, GG

Sorry but this change is soo weird to me, The cool fact of capitals where that you could jump around and use it as a tool to deploy to places, Which is now impossible. You are faster to move your ships by gates then to jump it around. this removes a big strategy of the game and TBH with these changes a titan pilot in drones will never ever meet a titan in fountain.

yes it was easy too easy to travel around but common a timer REALLY! a Nerf to range would have been sufficient. This is just bullying capital pilots.

@BobmonEVE - BOBMON FOR CSM 12
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#688 - 2014-10-01 19:07:20 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:

Just deploy ships to each of the CFC FOBs like you were supposed to be doing all along. Every pilot in the CFC should have CFC doctrine ships and jump clones already in FOB North (previously VFK, now YA0), FOB West (F2OY), and FOB South (4-EP). In the event of a deployment, you jump clone to your cache of ships. If you don't already have your clones and ships in order then take the time leading up to the patch to get them staged.


Thanks to our forever wars I have jump clones, interceptors, and battleships in a arc from Curse all the way around to Geminate. I don't think people have realized CCP just handed the CFC New Eden on a silver platter.


Judging by all the "SWEET NULL BEAR TEARS :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:"-style comments in this thread I am guessing that people are completely unaware of it despite me going out of my way to post to the contrary.


People are shortsighted in that way, they think they won something when CCP makes a change without them understanding that the reality is they just got shafted lol.
Wivabel
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#689 - 2014-10-01 19:07:27 UTC
Can we add something like a mini jump freighter with the carrying capacity of a carrier so us average pilots can move our stuff around.

I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#690 - 2014-10-01 19:08:10 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
much needed nerf .. however i'm very concerned about the capitals in high sec comment... that would be a very bad idea

Honestly curious, why do you say would it be bad?

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Jean Leaner
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#691 - 2014-10-01 19:08:14 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ranamar wrote:
Nobody seems to have commented on this, so...
When you say 5LY range, is that JDC V range?
Training JDC V sucks. Can I convince you to reduce the multiplier on the JDC skill and increase the base jump range on capitals to compensate?

Also, am I reading things correctly that the orange (no jump activation) timer gets set to whatever the blue (jump fatigue) timer says when you jump? (with it bottoming out at 1 minute) That seems like a nice, easy explanation that doesn't require any math beyond "Your jump fatigue gets multiplied after your jump." If it's not that, it really needs a better explanation.


5 LY at max skills. Skill balance is a thing we need to look at at some point, for sure.

Orange timer gets set to essentially 10% of the blue timer on jump, otherwise fatigue is always 0 when you jump. We're trying to make sure that it's clearly explained in the tooltips.

Makari Aeron wrote:
As it stands, I believe this plan, while interesting is going to kill off T2 production in EVE, especially nullsec. There is no possible way to move large quantities of moongoo easily anymore.


It's going to have a significant impact, to be sure, and that's something we need to keep an eye on. At the same time, though, people built T2 ships and modules before jump freighters existed, so we're somewhat skeptical of the argument that that T2 construction is impossible without JFs.



You were skeptical that nerfing anomolies would cause nullsec to become even emptier, looks like you were wrong about that. Congratulations on proving once again that *you* specifically have no idea what you're doing.
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#692 - 2014-10-01 19:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
The people in this thread who have legitimate complaints are those who do logistics--and this includes logistics for FW, for null sec industry, etc etc. Nerfing JFs is a huge blow to the viability of just living in low and null. Please consider making JFs exempt from the fatigue, or extending their range, or giving them a fleet hangar so that we can move fitted ships in them (moving fitted ships for deployment is going to be hugely difficult after these changes!).
Leyline777
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#693 - 2014-10-01 19:08:29 UTC
This is the most assinine set of changes I have seen from eve... and that says a lot.

When I first heard about jump changes, I expected maybe five or ten minutes max of cooldown, not 30 mins to an hour. People want to play your game for fun, even if some of us treat it like a job. You are absolutely killing engagement, and might want to remove capitals from the game.

My major sticking point though, is the jump range limitation to 5 ly. This is so small as to not cover some regions, let alone get a pilot anywhere useful. This is not an enjoyable change for either the small or large 0.0 entities, and makes for incredibly painful logistical challenges.

It is great that caps can take gates, but not at the current speed which they warp and align. If you are bent on that, please buff them (and freighters, while you are at it). There is a reason many freighters autopilot in hisec: because flying them is boring, and lacks engagement or meaningful content.

I would ask you to please reduce the penalty for jumping as well as keep the range the same as we have now (that way jumps would still be the same number, but take longer)(or increase the rate at which it decays as noone wants to log in a few days later and not be able to do stuff just because they took a trip elsewhere). Planning for 12 cynos instead of the 4 currently in your example flat out sucks to play and will not add any entertainment value to the game. Please reconsider these aweful changes.
Kevin Towlyn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#694 - 2014-10-01 19:08:49 UTC
i have been playing eve now for almost 8 years and this is the stupidest thing i have ever read! you should be worrying about making this game better not worse. you r going to loose alot of subsribers if you do this. whoever came up with this idea should be fired publiclly. CCp should be doing stuff to bring in more subscribers. t3 weapons or more t3 ships another tier dread. keep us intrested not dis intrested. You can do better. if u dont want to worry about caps ships moving great distances add 5000 more systems so it takes longer to move it.
Cr Turist
Arcana Noctis
#695 - 2014-10-01 19:09:03 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ranamar wrote:
Nobody seems to have commented on this, so...
When you say 5LY range, is that JDC V range?
Training JDC V sucks. Can I convince you to reduce the multiplier on the JDC skill and increase the base jump range on capitals to compensate?

Also, am I reading things correctly that the orange (no jump activation) timer gets set to whatever the blue (jump fatigue) timer says when you jump? (with it bottoming out at 1 minute) That seems like a nice, easy explanation that doesn't require any math beyond "Your jump fatigue gets multiplied after your jump." If it's not that, it really needs a better explanation.


5 LY at max skills. Skill balance is a thing we need to look at at some point, for sure.

Orange timer gets set to essentially 10% of the blue timer on jump, otherwise fatigue is always 0 when you jump. We're trying to make sure that it's clearly explained in the tooltips.

Makari Aeron wrote:
As it stands, I believe this plan, while interesting is going to kill off T2 production in EVE, especially nullsec. There is no possible way to move large quantities of moongoo easily anymore.


It's going to have a significant impact, to be sure, and that's something we need to keep an eye on. At the same time, though, people built T2 ships and modules before jump freighters existed, so we're somewhat skeptical of the argument that that T2 construction is impossible without JFs.




so one can assume your intention is indeed to make JF no longer usable?
ic35t0rm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#696 - 2014-10-01 19:09:19 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Guess its time for nullsec to start building their own stuff and have smaller empires, I welcome these changes with open arms.



How? where will you get most T2 mats?
how is t2 product going to get to jita?

15 cyno jumps to get T2 mats to jita with this change.

high sec pvpers will kill anything not jumping

market prices will go way up....

if you don't buy plex's you soon will to buy anything

Lady Isabell
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#697 - 2014-10-01 19:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Isabell
David Magnus wrote:
I feel bad for the first new capital pilot that doesn't have a PHD in math to understand the fatigue mechanics, and ruins his pilot forever after just 10 jumps.


He could sell it to a poor sap who cant check for fatigue


Have are you going to take fatigue into account when selling characters, or are you?
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#698 - 2014-10-01 19:09:52 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
CCP,

You state that

Quote:
Black Ops ships will have their range unchanged, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This also keeps the range of their jump portals unchanged. We don’t feel that Black Ops range needs adjustment right now.


Which in turn implies that a Black Ops ship will have the same factor for the cool down timer for a capital ship. While I agree with the sentiment that a cool down timer for all jump capable ships is acceptable (since you plan to implement it), the ratio is problemeatic.

Without getting too ~lore~ heavy (because seriously **** that ****), a Blops are more or less battleship class ships but with the neat jump portal feature. As a result, Blops ships are the size of a battleship, which is a fraction of the site of the capital. Why does the same length of cool down apply to the Black Ops ship that is applied to the Capital ship?

Shouldn't the Black Ops ship receive a, slightly, shorter cool down time & factor (I don't know the right ~math word~)?

Let's use something simple because, frankly, I'm dumb when it comes to math.

For the sake of this example let's use the currently proposed system and look at the cool down. Capitals and Blops ships share the same "1 + LY" fatigue. So for example, a Blops & Capital moving 4.85 LY (post change implementation) both have a cool down of 1 + 4.85, or 5 minutes 51 seconds.

They're two different sizes, two different masses and so forth. Why can't the BLOPs have a factor of say "0.75 + LY" as opposed to "1 + LY" that the capital ships receive?

In the provided example the jump that takes 4.85 LY would take the BLOPs ship 5 minutes 36 seconds to be able to jump out of system. This allows for the BLOPs ship to do it's typical "get in, get out" strategy that has become a staple of the intended use for the class, while also applying the proposed cool down timer changes.

Now, I'm not a math wiz and openly admit I'm probably missing something but figured I would ask.


I don't think they thought this through yet.

I'm thinking of my own assets here and I have 4 Black Ops Pilots and a fleet of Black Ops hulls that in cases, several can fly. So does Redeemer A get a timer or the pilot? Does the fatigue carry over so I crank it up on a Black Ops, it stays there for a Carrier? Or if I use a redeemer today and a Panther tomorrow does it accumulate?

This is a dev blog now, it's going to change but they have a lot on their plate here.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#699 - 2014-10-01 19:10:20 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[
It's going to have a significant impact, to be sure, and that's something we need to keep an eye on. At the same time, though, people built T2 ships and modules before jump freighters existed, so we're somewhat skeptical of the argument that that T2 construction is impossible without JFs.



That would be during the days you could fill the Carrier with full industrials?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#700 - 2014-10-01 19:10:22 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


It's going to have a significant impact, to be sure, and that's something we need to keep an eye on. At the same time, though, people built T2 ships and modules before jump freighters existed, so we're somewhat skeptical of the argument that that T2 construction is impossible without JFs.




No one is saying "impossible", but the game was different back then, lots of tings exist now that didn't back then, there are more people and more people with alts to choke things off.

Y'all might as well change the nomenclature of the game. Instead of "Tech1, named and Tech2" you can go ahead and say "Tech1, named and GoonTech" Twisted