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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#421 - 2014-10-01 18:21:30 UTC
Bwaahahaha! Twisted
brb, need to find a bigger tear bucket.
Jerf Foo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#422 - 2014-10-01 18:21:37 UTC
Quote:
You will only be able to move your medical clone to the station you are currently docked at. This prevents obvious movement workarounds with suicide-cloning. (If your clone contract is revoked by the station owner, we are keeping the current behavior that it is moved to your home system as defined in the character sheet.)


QUESTION! Are corporation offices still going to allow a player to put a med clone to that station from anywhere?

If not, doesn't this make life more difficult for newbros trying to join a Nullsec corporations? They won't be able to clone-suicide out to a Nullsec corporation's staging station, they'll have to physically fly out there.
Prince Kobol
#423 - 2014-10-01 18:21:38 UTC
Legetus Shmoof Metallii wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
True Sight wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Tell me whose babies I need to have. This is amazing. Finally a chance to shake up nullsec for the smaller fish in the pond using proper guerrilla tactics.


Except, the big fish will just install a capital fleet in every region, ready to use whenever they need it, the large coalitions/alliances have enough capital (hah, punn) to simply put 500 dreads and carriers in every single low/sec/npc null in eve.

the "smaller fish" won't afford that, so they will still be hell-camped.


So the smaller fish will only have to deal with 500 caps rather than the entire supercap + capfleet. Sounds more manageable to me.



who other then the CFC and NC can field 500 subcaps?


HERO


Hero have never had 500 in a fleet....
ddred
Priory Of The Lemon
Brave Collective
#424 - 2014-10-01 18:21:43 UTC
We're not a very big alliance, we've been been hotdropped by PL; I still think this is a horrible idea.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#425 - 2014-10-01 18:21:48 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
True Sight wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Tell me whose babies I need to have. This is amazing. Finally a chance to shake up nullsec for the smaller fish in the pond using proper guerrilla tactics.


Except, the big fish will just install a capital fleet in every region, ready to use whenever they need it, the large coalitions/alliances have enough capital (hah, punn) to simply put 500 dreads and carriers in every single low/sec/npc null in eve.

the "smaller fish" won't afford that, so they will still be hell-camped.


So the smaller fish will only have to deal with 500 caps rather than the entire supercap + capfleet. Sounds more manageable to me.



who other then the CFC and NC can field 500 subcaps?


Dunno. But remember that if they do field their 500 man fleet they will be more vulnerable at the other end of their (renter) empire.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Cpt Patrick Archer
I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#426 - 2014-10-01 18:21:50 UTC
Long story, tl;dr

  • I understand the changes to Jump capable combat capitals, not sure though if they should be this severe.
  • Capitals using gates, really?
  • PLEASE don't do this for JF/Rorq (fatigue: meh, but I'm no fan. reduce range: F*CK NO!
  • Basically this will grid medium to deep Nullsec logistics to a halt, which will mean that people will leave the edges of nullsec.




Alright, I have mixed feelings about this one. I understand what they are trying to do, but doing this for the logistics ships like the JF and Rorq are the biggest mistake yet. The 90% reduction makes sense, but nerfing them to 5 LY's with skills is just dumb.

Obv I live in NA renting space and we use those ships nearly every day, since you just don't want/can't to build everything here and we sell dedspace stuff in Jita.

Now it takes me about 10 minutes (same cyno mostly) to get to a lowsec system of my choice with 3 midjumps (Skills at 444). Total range is about 33 LY's (one way trip). So a total of around 60. Taking gates would mean about 20-25 jumps (nearly all through Null, sov and npc). We have tried it to save fuel with t2 indy, it's a deathtrap nomatter what time you try it. So that is out of the question.

After the change (nerf to range is mostly responsible for this) I would have to do 11 jumps at 36 LY's. A oneway trip would take me about 25 mins (22 minutes of waiting) if I was at fatigue 0.
Trap back right away would take me up to a total of 59 mins of waiting. Which would mean I'd have to wait a total of 1.5 hours.

All in all one trip isn't to bad, but doing two (which is more common that 1 for us) would be just stupid. I can imagine it taking up 5 hours to move some stuff from ls to our system.

Of course we could start building stuff more often, which we will, but the fact doesn't change that you can't do it all.

I understand it from a combat point of view, but PLEASE think about this for logistical ships! I can't even imagine what this would do to PushX or Black Frog (prices anyone)?


I'm not raging yet, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of people from my corp/alliance will quit Eve when they can't resupply themselves in deep null..
TraderJoe19
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#427 - 2014-10-01 18:22:12 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
The Ironfist wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Preface: this is a big change. Yes, the way you play now is, as it relates to things touched by these changes and to varying degrees, no longer going to be viable. If that wasn't the case, these changes wouldn't be worth making in the first place.

This isn't a business-as-usual tuning pass, this is redefining what jump drives are *for* in this game.


5ly range for jumprfreigthers forcing ships that can not even defend themselves to take gates and requiring 3 times as many cyno's fuel and what not do do logistics you really think that is a GOOD thing?

From a market hub to DEEP SPACE 0.0 it is around 50ly just how much time and money do you think people are willing to spend on a game that has nothing to offer? Yes JF's get a reduction in this time but it will still be 10+ jumps which means a massive time-sink. And you will be forced to take at least 5 regional gates in a 7billion ship + whatever you have loaded. Do you really mean to tell me that this is going to work out?

You still have not fixed mining it is impossible to sustain in null-sec without high-sec. Yet you are making the export and import from null-sec to high-sec and the other way around downright impossible?

I'm sorry I'm no genius I did not study game design only economics but even with the 2 semesters of game-theory we had to take I can tell this will kill your company. Because you are about to annihilate your one and only source of income.

Eve in terms of gameplay has only one thing going for it which is that it is a sandbox. PVE in this game is stuck in the 2000 era neither fun nor rewarding nor does it scale. No incentive to do PVE with friends neither is it engaging. Everything in eve takes forever and feels more like a second job then playing a game, and here you are telling us its fine to make it even worse? Please explain to me what studies you guys have done to think that this change will be well received. The problem was never that it was to easy to move the problem was that a fight that should be over in 20 minutes takes 2 hours because of TIDI. The issue you have is TIDI yet you are not addressing it why? Yes to an extend Jump-drives need a nerf but what you are going for right now is ridiculous: Titans -> Forced to take gates to get across regions ye t they have zero ability to defend them-selfs. Even worse logistics meaning Jumpfreithers are you telling me we will need an entire alliance to provide cover fleets every time we want to do logistics and every-time it is going to be 3-6 hour undertaking. Do you really think anybody wants to play a game like this much less pay for it?
pretty much all of this

it already takes too long for me to move **** around as it is and i have multiple capital alts and cynos. i don't know about your little example that you gave, but i'm definitely not covering 50 ******* light years in under 4 minutes, it takes me several hours to do that. i basically need to dedicate a whole night whenever i move stuff out of null-sec, now it looks like i'll need to dedicate a whole weekend.

don't try to tell me that this kind of change is supposed to be fun. that is disrespectful to my intelligence.



Might I interest you in one of my lovely wormhole connections to help you move your kit around? or would you rather just not look at the alternatives to move your freighter?
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#428 - 2014-10-01 18:22:13 UTC
The fundamental issue is that combat cynos are inherently gamebreaking because they negate terrain -- no matter what the enemy does, you can always cyno "behind" them.

These changes will help address power projection but they won't address the fundamental terrain-negation problem. I would not be surprised to see changes down the road that limit cynos to certain locations in a system, like gates and stations, in an attempt to restore terrain.

Interesting times...

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Edwin Wyatt
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#429 - 2014-10-01 18:22:45 UTC
bp920091 wrote:
Seriously, this change will 100% kill the T2 market, without a doubt. There is no way to actually have t2 goo produced locally, and without local production, things either wont happen, or they'll happen at massively inflated rates.

In nerfing force projection, CCP's killed the economy, great job. Couldn't have made a better way to do it myself.



Or, maybe smaller groups will form neutral market hubs in 0.0 where you can freely trade moon goo and other useful items..
MajorBean
HandelsGilde-De
Outsmarted
#430 - 2014-10-01 18:22:46 UTC
People with power will never give their power away ... until you force them.
Prince Kobol
#431 - 2014-10-01 18:23:13 UTC
Anyway.. I have 5 accounts and they all expire in the next month or so.. don't think I will be resubbing.


Cheers CCP
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#432 - 2014-10-01 18:23:22 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Gonna be a bumpy ride.

I will be collecting relevant comments in this small bag over here, tears in the tanker, over there.

m


Was it necessary to include jump freighters into this mess? Logistics is already **** in 0.0 not withstanding these changes.


Build in 0.0? you just got spoon feed the best place to build things.
Bobmon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#433 - 2014-10-01 18:23:28 UTC
Looking for 2 people!
1) Agrees with the changes
2) Disagrees with these changes

for opinion pieces on EN24!

interested? mail me!

@BobmonEVE - BOBMON FOR CSM 12
Anthar Thebess
#434 - 2014-10-01 18:23:38 UTC
My 4 capital pilots are happy with those changes.

Good direction.
You will have as much space as you can use it.

Some idea. Jump fatigue - create NPC booster that have 50% of sinking it or increasing it.
Sold only NPC faction 50 mil each douse.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
loquacious7
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#435 - 2014-10-01 18:23:52 UTC
So if you have a lot of assets, people and or alts. This will be easily worked around. If you are a small corp or one man with a few alts you just made over a years worth of skills useless. Remind me how this helps me the little guy but with a straight face.
Baron Holbach
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#436 - 2014-10-01 18:24:06 UTC
bye-bye eve
Sala Cameron
Free-Space-Ranger
#437 - 2014-10-01 18:24:06 UTC
haha #yolo
Prince Kobol
#438 - 2014-10-01 18:24:09 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
True Sight wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Tell me whose babies I need to have. This is amazing. Finally a chance to shake up nullsec for the smaller fish in the pond using proper guerrilla tactics.


Except, the big fish will just install a capital fleet in every region, ready to use whenever they need it, the large coalitions/alliances have enough capital (hah, punn) to simply put 500 dreads and carriers in every single low/sec/npc null in eve.

the "smaller fish" won't afford that, so they will still be hell-camped.


So the smaller fish will only have to deal with 500 caps rather than the entire supercap + capfleet. Sounds more manageable to me.



who other then the CFC and NC can field 500 subcaps?


Dunno. But remember that if they do field their 500 man fleet they will be more vulnerable at the other end of their (renter) empire.


You mean in the systems that will be hell camped with Capitals ships
Kendepp
State War Academy
Caldari State
#439 - 2014-10-01 18:24:28 UTC
Have 11 accounts now.
If CCP will apply these changes, i'll cancel all my subsciprions, and i'm sure thousands of people will do the same.
It woun't be a game i'd like to pay for.
Malaphocent Malukker
Capsuleers Who Say Ni
#440 - 2014-10-01 18:24:56 UTC
Apologies if I have missed this (eyes are already bleeding from reading this threadnought)

Am I to assume that Jump Freighters will be reduced to a MAXIMUM with skills range of 5 LY
Are you out of your mind?????

I have just closed down my WH operation due to the ridiculous changes that made WH life all risk with limited reward and relocated myself to null sec (yes I am a renter...sorry)

Now you are destroying my null sec logistics effectively doubling the jumps required and alts needed and not to mention time!