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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#641 - 2014-09-28 21:03:57 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Personally I think that mining should be removed from the game. Barring that, there should be a mini-game like with hacking that will at least make it more difficult to do.

Until CCP makes such changes, it behooves all of us to engage with the miners. Most of them only mine because they have no exposure to more enjoyable parts of the game. We should take them on missions, invite them on PvP roams, etc.... not blow them up which just pisses them off and gets them to more determined to mine. Basically, CODE should go back to miner BUMPING and stop with the miner GANKING.

Now obviously this won't work with the real bots, but at least we can get rid of the rest of the miners and stop the runaway deflation.


I am confused. You think the New Order should do more bumping because it will **** the miners off less than ganking them, yet some how this will convince them to engage more with other aspects of the game? If they are pissed off less won't they just mine more oblivious to the real Eve that guys like me and you play?

And as you admit this will have little effect on the true bots. At least ganking those usually shuts the bot down until the botmaster returns to reset things.

I think you need to think a little more about your ideas on this. Until you present something better than that Veers, I will be staying on team James 315.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#642 - 2014-09-28 21:06:04 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
stop the runaway deflation.


Deflation?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Lady Areola Fappington
#643 - 2014-09-28 23:16:02 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Personally I think that mining should be removed from the game. Barring that, there should be a mini-game like with hacking that will at least make it more difficult to do.

Until CCP makes such changes, it behooves all of us to engage with the miners. Most of them only mine because they have no exposure to more enjoyable parts of the game. We should take them on missions, invite them on PvP roams, etc.... not blow them up which just pisses them off and gets them to more determined to mine. Basically, CODE should go back to miner BUMPING and stop with the miner GANKING.

Now obviously this won't work with the real bots, but at least we can get rid of the rest of the miners and stop the runaway deflation.


I am confused. You think the New Order should do more bumping because it will **** the miners off less than ganking them, yet some how this will convince them to engage more with other aspects of the game? If they are pissed off less won't they just mine more oblivious to the real Eve that guys like me and you play?

And as you admit this will have little effect on the true bots. At least ganking those usually shuts the bot down until the botmaster returns to reset things.

I think you need to think a little more about your ideas on this. Until you present something better than that Veers, I will be staying on team James 315.



That is kinda weird. It's OK to bump miners, but it's not OK to bump freighters. Nevermind that a good freighter gank removes a helluva lot more minerals from the game than bumping a miner for 10 minutes.

We have rampant deflation, but taking actions to remove minerals from the game (via ganking) is bad.

Kids these days.....

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#644 - 2014-09-29 00:31:37 UTC
I feel that with hyperinflation & deflation that CCP should adjust things accordingly.
Instead of a single trit in rookie ships, it needs to be adjusted properly.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#645 - 2014-09-29 02:46:12 UTC
As a layman in terms of higher than "3rd grade" economic principles, can someone explain is 1st grade terms how to get run away inflation and deflation at the same time?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#646 - 2014-09-29 02:51:06 UTC
Ya, when the products trade relative to each other. Plex relates $$$ to Eve stuff using isk. Isk reflects the value of Eve stuff. So if growth rate of stuff exceeds growth rate of isk, stuff will deflate in isk terms. But plex, which ties $$$ to Eve stuff will need to inflate to reflect the fact that Eve stuff is more plentiful, and worth less in $$$ terms.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#647 - 2014-09-29 02:52:18 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Personally I think that mining should be removed from the game. Barring that, there should be a mini-game like with hacking that will at least make it more difficult to do.

Until CCP makes such changes, it behooves all of us to engage with the miners. Most of them only mine because they have no exposure to more enjoyable parts of the game. We should take them on missions, invite them on PvP roams, etc.... not blow them up which just pisses them off and gets them to more determined to mine. Basically, CODE should go back to miner BUMPING and stop with the miner GANKING.

Now obviously this won't work with the real bots, but at least we can get rid of the rest of the miners and stop the runaway deflation.


I am confused. You think the New Order should do more bumping because it will **** the miners off less than ganking them, yet some how this will convince them to engage more with other aspects of the game? If they are pissed off less won't they just mine more oblivious to the real Eve that guys like me and you play?

And as you admit this will have little effect on the true bots. At least ganking those usually shuts the bot down until the botmaster returns to reset things.

I think you need to think a little more about your ideas on this. Until you present something better than that Veers, I will be staying on team James 315.


Point is that blowing people up doesn't start a conversation - bumping does. That engagement is what gets them to stop mining.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#648 - 2014-09-29 02:54:10 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:



That is kinda weird. It's OK to bump miners, but it's not OK to bump freighters. Nevermind that a good freighter gank removes a helluva lot more minerals from the game than bumping a miner for 10 minutes.

We have rampant deflation, but taking actions to remove minerals from the game (via ganking) is bad.

Kids these days.....


cutting down mining means less new Eve stuff and hence less deflationI. Ganking haulers just makes them more likely to leave everything in Jita forcing everyone to fly there to buy things, a net loss. It doesn't actually fight deflation.

bumping freighters is done to gank them, bumping miners is done to start a conversation with them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#649 - 2014-09-29 03:10:15 UTC
I really think he must be on drugs or some other kind of severe intoxicant at this point.

But the question remains, which ones? My first guess is shrooms, or paint thinner.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#650 - 2014-09-29 03:14:48 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I really think he must be on drugs or some other kind of severe intoxicant at this point.

But the question remains, which ones? My first guess is shrooms, or paint thinner.


Gee what an intelligent and useful comment properly addressing the issues.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#651 - 2014-09-29 03:18:57 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I really think he must be on drugs or some other kind of severe intoxicant at this point.

But the question remains, which ones? My first guess is shrooms, or paint thinner.


Gee what an intelligent and useful comment properly addressing the issues.


There are no issues, just you campaigning for changes that would severely damage the game from your position of complete ignorance.

At this point, the only issue is what your brain damaging intoxicant of choice might be.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#652 - 2014-09-29 03:19:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I really think he must be on drugs or some other kind of severe intoxicant at this point.

But the question remains, which ones? My first guess is shrooms, or paint thinner.


Gee what an intelligent and useful comment properly addressing the issues.


There are no issues, just you campaigning for changes that would severely damage the game from your position of complete ignorance.

At this point, the only issue is what your brain damaging intoxicant of choice might be.


Obviously you completely fail to grasp the economic fundamentals underlying Eve. Carry right on with your wild insults though, they are much more amusing than hurtful.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#653 - 2014-09-29 03:31:09 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Obviously you completely fail to grasp the economic fundamentals underlying Eve.


One of us certainly is, if you think that deflation is harmful to the game in any way, or actually happening on any noteworthy scale what's more.

The "one of us" is you, by the way. But given the frankly astonishing level of ignorance you have displayed pretty much with every post since you first blighted these forums, that is not surprising to me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#654 - 2014-09-29 03:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
no, cant be shrooms, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too trippy to effectivly use a pc without crying,
paint thinner cant sustain that sort of delusion this long.
im thinking recent baaaad lsd trip, the sort that lingers around for a month/year or so.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#655 - 2014-09-29 03:46:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Obviously you completely fail to grasp the economic fundamentals underlying Eve.


One of us certainly is, if you think that deflation is harmful to the game in any way, or actually happening on any noteworthy scale what's more.

The "one of us" is you, by the way. But given the frankly astonishing level of ignorance you have displayed pretty much with every post since you first blighted these forums, that is not surprising to me.


Ya, moderately declining ship prices and massively increasing Plex doesn't suggest deflation of Eve stuff - no siree.....that's some pretty astute analysis you are doing there. Personally I've never used drugs, but it seems you found some pretty potent stuff.
Lady Areola Fappington
#656 - 2014-09-29 04:09:43 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Ya, moderately declining ship prices and massively increasing Plex doesn't suggest deflation of Eve stuff - no siree.....that's some pretty astute analysis you are doing there. Personally I've never used drugs, but it seems you found some pretty potent stuff.



Basing a declaration of deflation on ship and plex prices, then trying to tie that back to minerals, is a massively simplistic and incorrect view of EVE's economy.

This Disagrees with your declaration of "massively increasing PLEX price, BtW.

Ravens and Megathrons also disagree with your statement of moderate decline. There's a big dip around 7/23/2014, and then everything looks pretty stable, or slowly rising.


Of course, I may be interpreting the data totally wrong, and I invite anyone with an actual clue about the market to correct me.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#657 - 2014-09-29 04:20:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Ya, moderately declining ship prices and massively increasing Plex doesn't suggest deflation of Eve stuff - no siree.....that's some pretty astute analysis you are doing there. Personally I've never used drugs, but it seems you found some pretty potent stuff.



Basing a declaration of deflation on ship and plex prices, then trying to tie that back to minerals, is a massively simplistic and incorrect view of EVE's economy.

This Disagrees with your declaration of "massively increasing PLEX price, BtW.

Ravens and Megathrons also disagree with your statement of moderate decline. There's a big dip around 7/23/2014, and then everything looks pretty stable, or slowly rising.


Of course, I may be interpreting the data totally wrong, and I invite anyone with an actual clue about the market to correct me.


http://www.eve-markets.net/detail.php?typeid=29668#history

Plex over the last year. Enough said.

Type 360 into the range....you will see a staggering increase.
Iain Cariaba
#658 - 2014-09-29 04:31:14 UTC
Still so many good laughs in this thread. I specifically like the ones from Veers where he's pontificating on his knowledge of EvE economics, yet lacking in the ability to read the graphs and still differentiate between inflation and deflation.

Here you go, Veers, just for you.

When the value of the given currency decreases, causing prices to go up, this is inflation.
When the value of the given currency increases, causing prices to go down, this is deflation.

Now, you see all those pretty, squiggly lines on the market graph? See the trend for them to go up? That is called inflation, and caused when there is an excess of available currency, which lowers the value of said currency.

I paid attention in my 3rd grade economics class. Pirate
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#659 - 2014-09-29 04:34:56 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Still so many good laughs in this thread. I specifically like the ones from Veers where he's pontificating on his knowledge of EvE economics, yet lacking in the ability to read the graphs and still differentiate between inflation and deflation.

Here you go, Veers, just for you.

When the value of the given currency decreases, causing prices to go up, this is inflation.
When the value of the given currency increases, causing prices to go down, this is deflation.

Now, you see all those pretty, squiggly lines on the market graph? See the trend for them to go up? That is called inflation, and caused when there is an excess of available currency, which lowers the value of said currency.

I paid attention in my 3rd grade economics class. Pirate


For realz???? Like I said when Plex is inflating...read price is going up. And when ships are deflating....read price is going down - see Machariel, Vindicator, etc....

Thanks for the free lesson bro!
Iain Cariaba
#660 - 2014-09-29 04:40:28 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Still so many good laughs in this thread. I specifically like the ones from Veers where he's pontificating on his knowledge of EvE economics, yet lacking in the ability to read the graphs and still differentiate between inflation and deflation.

Here you go, Veers, just for you.

When the value of the given currency decreases, causing prices to go up, this is inflation.
When the value of the given currency increases, causing prices to go down, this is deflation.

Now, you see all those pretty, squiggly lines on the market graph? See the trend for them to go up? That is called inflation, and caused when there is an excess of available currency, which lowers the value of said currency.

I paid attention in my 3rd grade economics class. Pirate


For realz???? Like I said when Plex is inflating...read price is going up. And when ships are deflating....read price is going down - see Machariel, Vindicator, etc....

Thanks for the free lesson bro!

So, people realize that flying blingy ships is asking to get ganked, therefore causing an excess in supply on the market in a select portion of the market, so the whole economy is in deflation? That'a like saying the entire world economy is about to collapse because the price of corn in Iowa goes down during harvest season.