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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

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CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#481 - 2014-09-22 15:46:20 UTC
Wraymond Arji wrote:
13 nonames wrote:
I would like to see a harder punishment set out for hi sec gankers such as a sec limiter put in place to make it so anyone with a -6 sec may no longer get into hi sec no more criminal driving around hi security space seeing as a so call advanced society would not have wanted criminal walking the street as well as a faster response time for concord and a new sytem put in place that makes it so the concord on your grid will aggress new and old criminals not just faction police


And I would like to see a larger benefits package set out for highsec gankers. Ganking is part of eve and always has been, for over a decade. I think the horse is dead and tenderized, maybe it's time to stop beating it...



Some of us like it dead, just like some of us want this very tenderized equine corpse to be set on fire. Because we can. (I am not belittling you just wanted to use the equine corpse)

As far as the original person you quoted.... So you're wanting a game mechanic that has been in place since launch to be changed because you want to be safe? If you want to be safe I'd suggest staying docked.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#482 - 2014-09-22 15:49:18 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
no more criminal driving around hi security space seeing as a so call advanced society would not have wanted criminal walking the street


I just reread this and perhaps you are right! No more NPC criminals with bounties in high sec either. No more missions in high sec! Let's not ruin the realism of this advanced society you speak of eh? All that stuff can be moved to low sec.

This is a really good idea OP.
Wraymond Arji
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#483 - 2014-09-22 16:38:11 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Possibly it is time to give the horse some medical attention.

However we all know that CCP will not ever do anything to make ganking better for the ganker. They will only ever nerf it, make it more difficult, more expensive and increase the negative consequences, because apparently carebears are the only people in high sec whose opinions on pvp matter.


Sadly, I fear you are correct. I play eve to kill things, that's my only reason here. I am not even a ganker as it's not my cup of tea. But, I feel very strongly against turning this into wow in space. IMO it's already there, but there's only so much that can be done when 90% of the people in the world want some "daddy" entity to take care of them and not have to work for anything. It won't turn around until people want it to turn around. Those people also won't want it to turn around while daddy is coddling them and enabling the attitude. It's circular logic that will remain in place until it's more profitable to stop coddling the wimps.
Damon Messer
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#484 - 2014-09-23 03:09:22 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
13 nonames wrote:
no more criminal driving around hi security space seeing as a so call advanced society would not have wanted criminal walking the street


I just reread this and perhaps you are right! No more NPC criminals with bounties in high sec either. No more missions in high sec! Let's not ruin the realism of this advanced society you speak of eh? All that stuff can be moved to low sec.

This is a really good idea OP.


+1 remove all security agents in highsec. only mining, distribution, and research agents.
Colonel Falkenberg
Zero Compliance
#485 - 2014-09-23 03:19:00 UTC
Damon Messer wrote:
Renegade Heart wrote:
13 nonames wrote:
no more criminal driving around hi security space seeing as a so call advanced society would not have wanted criminal walking the street


I just reread this and perhaps you are right! No more NPC criminals with bounties in high sec either. No more missions in high sec! Let's not ruin the realism of this advanced society you speak of eh? All that stuff can be moved to low sec.

This is a really good idea OP.


+1 remove all security agents in highsec. only mining, distribution, and research agents.



Lock all guns while in Hi-Sec. You can't shoot, nobody can shoot you. Totally safe.

To balance things out though... move ALL ore except Trit to low/null. Nerf trit amounts in hi-sec... if your going to mine afk, time does not matter anymore.
A safe society cost ISK to maintain, therefore all NPC corps need to raise taxes to 75%. Increase cost also on all transactions in Hi-Sec. Safety is not cheap.

Of course trade hubs will move to where the product is...
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#486 - 2014-09-23 06:20:10 UTC
Just put a moratorium on activation of any high slot module. Heck don't even have to do any special code or mechanic changes. Tie all highslot modules to the safety system. If you turn one on, be it a miner, gun, or link then you go suspect. Problems are all solved.
Colonel Falkenberg
Zero Compliance
#487 - 2014-09-23 15:18:48 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
Just put a moratorium on activation of any high slot module. Heck don't even have to do any special code or mechanic changes. Tie all highslot modules to the safety system. If you turn one on, be it a miner, gun, or link then you go suspect. Problems are all solved.


Or maybe we should just get rid of Hi-Sec altogether? It's time the empires went to war anyway.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#488 - 2014-09-24 01:10:59 UTC
I agree with OP....there need to be much harsher punishments for career -10 sec status suicide gankers, beyond a 15 minute timeout. The aggression timer should be based on ganking history and sec status, resulting in longer penalties for career gankers.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#489 - 2014-09-24 01:53:02 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I agree with OP....there need to be much harsher punishments for career -10 sec status suicide gankers


So enforce them using the in-game tools you've been provided with.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Colonel Falkenberg
Zero Compliance
#490 - 2014-09-24 01:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Colonel Falkenberg
Veers Belvar wrote:
I agree with OP....there need to be much harsher punishments for career -10 sec status suicide gankers, beyond a 15 minute timeout. The aggression timer should be based on ganking history and sec status, resulting in longer penalties for career gankers.


No.

They are -10. Go kill them. Don't ask CCP to do your work for you.

Remember CCP's tag line in one expansion?

BE THE VILLIAN.

Why punish something they promote?

Unless your weakass, and to lazy to actually play the game.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#491 - 2014-09-24 02:40:04 UTC
Killing -10 gankalysts is useless. They are cheap ships that the gankers expect to lose - setting them back 5 mil or so accomplishes nothing. Every 15 minutes they can gank again with the consequences. The whole system is broken.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#492 - 2014-09-24 02:55:26 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Killing -10 gankalysts is useless. They are cheap ships that the gankers expect to lose - setting them back 5 mil or so accomplishes nothing. Every 15 minutes they can gank again with the consequences. The whole system is broken.


Unless you kill enough of their paper thin ships to stop a gank. Which is pretty easy in a rail fit Moa, by the way.

The system is not broken, what is "broken" is **** poor attitudes like yours, where you want the goddamned NPCs to do your job for you.

Stop being lazy, stop being so risk averse, and go out there and do what you are supposed to do in a PvP game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#493 - 2014-09-24 02:59:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Killing -10 gankalysts is useless. They are cheap ships that the gankers expect to lose - setting them back 5 mil or so accomplishes nothing. Every 15 minutes they can gank again with the consequences. The whole system is broken.


Unless you kill enough of their paper thin ships to stop a gank. Which is pretty easy in a rail fit Moa, by the way.

The system is not broken, what is "broken" is **** poor attitudes like yours, where you want the goddamned NPCs to do your job for you.

Stop being lazy, stop being so risk averse, and go out there and do what you are supposed to do in a PvP game.


They are not brain dead. They use neutral scouts to pick out targets, and will primary DPS ships that try to intervene. How long is your rail fit moa gonna survive when 5 T2 catalysts land on top of it?

What is broken is the fact that criminals can run freely around high security space with nothing more than a 15 minute timeout, regardless of how much carnage they cause. The suicide gankers are the risk averse ones, their exposure is capped at the cost of their cheap gank ship. Everyone else who flies ships that are worth something, and have a purpose beyond suicide ganking, are the real risk takers.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#494 - 2014-09-24 03:06:29 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
How long is your rail fit moa gonna survive when 5 T2 catalysts land on top of it?


Are you stupid? Or do you just think that D-scan doesn't work in highsec?


Quote:

What is broken is the fact that criminals can run freely around high security space with nothing more than a 15 minute timeout, regardless of how much carnage they cause.


Since that's not actually the case, I have no idea what you think you're talking about.


Quote:

The suicide gankers are the risk averse ones, their exposure is capped at the cost of their cheap gank ship.


No, that's called smart gameplay, and mitigating costs. You don't get to equate your sad, maladjusted risk aversion with smart gameplay, there is no equivalency here.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Damon Messer
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#495 - 2014-09-24 03:23:07 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Killing -10 gankalysts is useless. They are cheap ships that the gankers expect to lose - setting them back 5 mil or so accomplishes nothing. Every 15 minutes they can gank again with the consequences. The whole system is broken.


-snip-.


They are not brain dead. They use neutral scouts to pick out targets, and will primary DPS ships that try to intervene. How long is your rail fit moa gonna survive when 5 T2 catalysts land on top of it?

What is broken is the fact that criminals can run freely around high security space with nothing more than a 15 minute timeout, regardless of how much carnage they cause. The suicide gankers are the risk averse ones, their exposure is capped at the cost of their cheap gank ship. Everyone else who flies ships that are worth something, and have a purpose beyond suicide ganking, are the real risk takers.


so let me get this straight, you're basically saying that suicide gankers are smart for using the tools available to them, while the victims are stupid for not using the same tools that are also available to them?
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#496 - 2014-09-24 03:30:43 UTC
If suicide ganking was truly as big an issue as some people are insisting, a move to low-sec would allow them to operate safely. There is no suicide ganking outside of high-security space.

Only incompetent or lazy capsuleers lose their ships to suicide ganks and then seek a solution that doesn't require them to apply their brain.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#497 - 2014-09-24 10:03:53 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


They are not brain dead. They use neutral scouts to pick out targets, and will primary DPS ships that try to intervene. How long is your rail fit moa gonna survive when 5 T2 catalysts land on top of it?

What is broken is the fact that criminals can run freely around high security space with nothing more than a 15 minute timeout, regardless of how much carnage they cause. The suicide gankers are the risk averse ones, their exposure is capped at the cost of their cheap gank ship. Everyone else who flies ships that are worth something, and have a purpose beyond suicide ganking, are the real risk takers.

You have said repeatedly that you will only engage with someone who is already under fire from CONCORD, you have also stated you are proactive in terms of ganking avoidance, what risks are you talking about again?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#498 - 2014-09-24 10:42:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Are you stupid?

I think the answer to that question is pretty obvious.
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#499 - 2014-09-24 11:07:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Killing -10 gankalysts is useless. They are cheap ships that the gankers expect to lose - setting them back 5 mil or so accomplishes nothing. Every 15 minutes they can gank again with the consequences. The whole system is broken.
Unless you kill enough of their paper thin ships to stop a gank. Which is pretty easy in a rail fit Moa, by the way. The system is not broken, what is "broken" is **** poor attitudes like yours, where you want the goddamned NPCs to do your job for you. Stop being lazy, stop being so risk averse, and go out there and do what you are supposed to do in a PvP game.


You seem to be saying the counter to a ganker is sitting in a Moa all day waiting for ganker to be stupid enough to gank in range of your Moa. Not that I am saying that gankers aren't stupid but to me waiting around all day for a 20sec engagement with a ganker doesn't sound like 'fun'.

Out of interest how many gankers have you caught using this method as it seems sub-par for so many reasons?
Also you also seem to fail to recognise that ganking is totally risk adverse as you know exactly how much each gank will cost (or if you get your ships reimbursed it should cost 0isk).
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#500 - 2014-09-24 11:19:06 UTC
Thomas Mayaki wrote:

You seem to be saying the counter to a ganker is sitting in a Moa all day waiting for ganker to be stupid enough to gank in range of your Moa.


Nope, try again.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.