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[Oceanus] Interceptor Updates

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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-09-18 13:29:25 UTC
What do the mass changes mean effectively?

I'm my own NPC alt.
NiteNinja
Doomheim
#82 - 2014-09-18 13:39:36 UTC
At his point do we really need MORE nerfs to missiles?

Why don't we just take missiles out of the game altogether?

Even with the cruise missile launcher buff, nobody uses them for PVP. Light Missiles and Rockets, and heavy assault missiles are the only missiles viable for PVP, and even then, there are better choices of ships than ones that use these platforms.

But with the already negligable DPS light missiles give (outside RLML, which the reload still sucks on 20 charges), might as well cross them off the list and make everything rocket and heavy assault ships.

But I digress.
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2014-09-18 13:42:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Crow:
Replace the 10% per level kinetic damage bonus with a 5% per level missile explosion radius bonus.
-1 Lowslot
+1 Highslot
+1 Launcher
+5 CPU
-10000 Mass


Hey fozzie? This is a buff not a nerf....just thought I'd let you know. :)
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#84 - 2014-09-18 13:44:12 UTC
Players: don't give Crow a 4th mid, it's going to overpower it compared to other ceptors.
CCP: *crickets*

Players: don't give interceptors bubble immunity, you're gonna have fleets of these things flying around.
CCP: *crickets*

Players: told you!
CCP: nerf LML!11111

Idiots...
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#85 - 2014-09-18 13:44:40 UTC
Yeah this missile nerf hits more than just the venerable inties. CCP overstepped this one while again avoiding the huge shadow of more pressing issues.

So far, Oceanus is a downgrade.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#86 - 2014-09-18 13:45:14 UTC
Leoric Firesword wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Crow:
Replace the 10% per level kinetic damage bonus with a 5% per level missile explosion radius bonus.
-1 Lowslot
+1 Highslot
+1 Launcher
+5 CPU
-10000 Mass


Hey fozzie? This is a buff not a nerf....just thought I'd let you know. :)

Two things:

1. Try fitting it. You'll notice no additional PG.
2. Try going fast enough to live with only two lows.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#87 - 2014-09-18 13:52:17 UTC
Thank you for destroying the Malediction for a lot of applications and for removing the only alternative to the Crow.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#88 - 2014-09-18 14:01:30 UTC
Diivil wrote:
You should make all interceptors (and all ships for that matter) have a minimum align time of 2.1s which would be as low as you can go so that they could actually be caught. It's kinda boring to have ships in the game that can run any gate camp except a smartbombing one. And when those uncatchable ships can also fit a cyno and warp speed rigs to at 11 au/s and only cost 20 mil it's just stupid.




Yes, because you are so bad at pvp that you need a 20 man instalock gatecamp to kill that 1 Interceptor that is harrasing your mission runners.

Cry more you Goonie.

Learn how to PVP and get a ship that will kill the malediction that has pointed your missionrunner, instead of relying on your instalock gatecamps.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#89 - 2014-09-18 14:03:50 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Thank you for destroying the Malediction for a lot of applications and for removing the only alternative to the Crow.

I actually see the Malediction as being far more viable than the Crow after these changes. All it lost was some damage; it still has great speed, good durability, and is easy to fit. The Crow will maintain good damage and gain some application, but it'll be impossible to fit; no more MSE fits (unless you really want to use two fitting mods) since you'll need a fitting mod just to get 4x LMLs and a MWD on.

Basically, they're turning the Crow into a rocket brawler. With bonuses to missile range & application and scram range, it'll make a mean scram kiter, but it'll be horrible as a fleet tackler.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Kuhal
The Envoys
#90 - 2014-09-18 14:05:50 UTC
Have to say that I'm not a big fan of an overall nerf to LML.

This hurts far more ships than just the Crow. The Talwar, Corax, Hawk, and Hookbill are all going to take a hit on this and none of them are considered too powerful; while the LML weapon system was strong it wasn't game-breaking. This is really just another slap in the face to anyone with SP in missiles.

This game is becoming Drones Online faster and faster.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-09-18 14:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Reagalan wrote:
The crow change does not go nearly far enough, and by that I mean, it doesn't do what it needs to.

The problem with the crow and malediction is their extreme range. Not the dps, not the tank, not the mobility; it's the range that lets them kite all the other interceptors to death and practically everything else as well. It's the range that has driven them to the top.

The malediction fix (by applying its bonus only to rockets) is entirely reasonable and does do what it needs to, nerfs the range of the malediction. This should fix it.

This crow fix does not do that. This crow fix merely increases the amount of time needed for a crow to kill something. For some reason it has even gained a damage bonus against small targets, which will make this ship even higher on the interceptor ladder.

No changes to LMLs were needed (which also affect hawks and kestrels and other not-broken-at-all ships). No changes to the slot layout, none of this. The crow can be fixed by doing to it what was done with the malediction: make the bonus only apply to rockets.

That was all you needed to do.


All my thoughts have been emphasized by Reagalan's post.

Fozzie's game change 'plans' makes me sometimes think that he isn't working on the game that we, the players, are playing. This 'plan' reminds me of his previous 'freighter rebalance' fiasco.

All that needed to be done was to readjust and remove Crow and Malediction's ability of being able to get into any fight without really risking themselves through long range kiting at extremely high speeds. Every other interceptor needs to be able to take a risk and commit themselves to any fight. Crow and Malediction did not. Add to that, especially Malediction is basically uncatchable due to inherent agility bonus and many low slots available for fitting agility modules.

Fozzie, you have your work done for you here and here. I suggest you to read them.
Gosti Kahanid
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#92 - 2014-09-18 14:32:11 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
What do the mass changes mean effectively?


It means that the ships will take longer to reach max speed while using an AB or MWD. Also they get more penalised when using plates
Ak'ghran
Doomheim
#93 - 2014-09-18 14:38:23 UTC
Why are you nerfing LMLs? Their DPS is already deplorable, except on ships like the Garmur and Talwar, in which cases their DPS is merely competitive. Stupid ******* change.

I hope you lose lots of subs. I really do.
Brother Mercury
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2014-09-18 14:41:15 UTC
I don't understand why when you gentlemen decide to tweak some ships you perceive as too strong you do so with the HULL itself AND the WEAPON systems they use (except for, of course the Ishtar).

RIP anyone using the Malediction ever again.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#95 - 2014-09-18 14:48:43 UTC
Brother Mercury wrote:
I don't understand why when you gentlemen decide to tweak some ships you perceive as too strong you do so with the HULL itself AND the WEAPON systems they use (except for, of course the Ishtar).

RIP anyone using the Malediction ever again.


I'll continue to use them because they'll still be good at pointing stuff (also, they did change sentry drones as well as the ishtar hull).

JUSTK is recruiting
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#96 - 2014-09-18 14:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Thank you for destroying the Malediction for a lot of applications and for removing the only alternative to the Crow.

I actually see the Malediction as being far more viable than the Crow after these changes. All it lost was some damage; it still has great speed, good durability, and is easy to fit. The Crow will maintain good damage and gain some application, but it'll be impossible to fit; no more MSE fits (unless you really want to use two fitting mods) since you'll need a fitting mod just to get 4x LMLs and a MWD on.

Basically, they're turning the Crow into a rocket brawler. With bonuses to missile range & application and scram range, it'll make a mean scram kiter, but it'll be horrible as a fleet tackler.


No, it is ruined. With a LML Malediction you have had the same chances as a Crow against drone boats on long range by flying away and shooting them with LMs, this is gone. Except for solo rocket brawling and damage-less tackle, the Malediction is now worthless again.

Fozzie shows yet again that he has not the best of the game in his interest.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#97 - 2014-09-18 14:54:43 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
No, it is ruined. With a LML Malediction you have had the same chances as a Crow against drone boats on long range by flying away and shooting them with LMs, this is gone. Except for solo rocket brawling and damage-less tackle, the Malediction is now worthless again.

You'll note that I made no statement about the absolute strength of the Malediction after this change, only that it'll be better off than the Crow. Yes, Maledictions won't be able to deal as much damage while orbiting at long point range, but they'll still be far more mobile and durable than Crows will be after the change so at least they'll be able to keep fulfilling their fleet tackler role, whereas the Crow will not.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#98 - 2014-09-18 14:56:36 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
No, it is ruined. With a LML Malediction you have had the same chances as a Crow against drone boats on long range by flying away and shooting them with LMs, this is gone. Except for solo rocket brawling and damage-less tackle, the Malediction is now worthless again.

You'll note that I made no statement about the absolute strength of the Malediction after this change, only that it'll be better off than the Crow. Yes, Maledictions won't be able to deal as much damage while orbiting at long point range, but they'll still be far more mobile and durable than Crows will be after the change so at least they'll be able to keep fulfilling their fleet tackler role, whereas the Crow will not.


They die to drones because they cannot remove drones anymore.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#99 - 2014-09-18 15:03:38 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
They die to drones because they cannot remove drones anymore.

If you're concerned about drones, you should be fitting rocket launchers anyways, or at the very least fitting for max speed instead of DPS.

Fleet interceptors were never meant to be 30+km damage dealers. Their weapons are meant to be defensive, not offensive. These changes are bringing them in-line with their intended roles. Will I miss the missile damage bonus on the Malediction? Of course, but it just means that I'll have to actually choose a role to fly it in instead of being able to do everything at once.

Mind you, the 4/4/2 slot layout for the Crow is completely broken because it means it can't fulfill it's fleet tackle role (it really needs to be 4/3/3), but the Malediction is fine.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Kuhal
The Envoys
#100 - 2014-09-18 15:12:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuhal
Brother Mercury wrote:
I don't understand why when you gentlemen decide to tweak some ships you perceive as too strong you do so with the HULL itself AND the WEAPON systems they use (except for, of course the Ishtar).


This is the odd part to me. If a ship seems strong nerf the ship not its weapons/modules. But when it comes to missiles (e.g. HML and LML) they nerf both. It's just odd that CCP has such a raging hard-on for drones but missiles are nerfed over and over.

But hey, the Ishtar seems pretty balanced in Ishtars Online. Anyone else love sentry drones on Ishtars (and every other ship that can use them), too?