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Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

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Tex Raynor
Guardians of Asceticism
#141 - 2014-09-14 08:25:24 UTC
Daredevil + Hawk to run all burners here. ~150 mil total, no faction mods.

Can't kill them without overheating mods to 80-90% sometimes, let's hope guns never break.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#142 - 2014-09-14 20:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Try ECM on the Angel Burner, it's patheticly susceptible to jamming. Lol

We were in Jaguar, Hawk, Griffon and Tristan. It ran away until the AI #yolo'd into our midst out of sheer despair.
Babylon Resurrection
RENEGADES YIY HEKATEK
#143 - 2014-09-15 18:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Babylon Resurrection
HARPY CAN DO THE WORM.
But you will need at lest 3% speed from mid-snake's (2-3-5) to add to the 7.5% of THRUST rig T2. (speed is 433m/s now)
AND SLOT 6-8 MWD BOOST 5% each.
MWD boost skill at least to IV
Without implants, speed will be down to 3860 m/s = Your MWD is DEAD Before you can lock onto him. And so are you.
I'm using a 1MN MWD T2 for the sake of contest.

EASY SPEED Formula. 1.422 = OVERHEATING BONUS = (OVERHEATED SPEED/NORMAL MWD SPEED)
( BASE SPEED * ( 1 + MWD BOOST * ( T/M)))* 1.422 = TOP SPEED

MWD MULTIPLIER 6.9085 ( Implants slots 6-8 and lev IV relative skill )
WITH 3x SNAKES , you can get 4253 m/s HOT
WITHOUT SNAKE'S, you can still get 4141 m/s. HOT
Should be enough to stay under 60 endless overheating seconds.
Or you can have almost all perfect skill and at LEAST the ZOR Hyperlink
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#144 - 2014-09-15 19:11:50 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
300-400 million isk equiped ships for missions that pay out roughly 8 million isk.
Burner missions aren't worth it.



2bil ships (battleships) to run a lv4 that pays even less.
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#145 - 2014-09-16 13:09:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Lady Rift wrote:
Ravay Kanjus wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Am I the only one dissapointed in these? I was hoping for dynamic fights, not EFTwarrioring.


EH I was hoping for a bit of both. Then I learned that they just web at ranges no player can do without overheat or faction webs and immediately became disappointed. I can't overheat for the 1-2 minutes straight needed for this (don't think anyone can) and using a Daredevil (to slow them down so much that your webbed self can catch up and not overheat as long) seems like a ****** alternative to someone with ****-poor gunnery skills. That, or 90 million isk for 2 faction webs. Joy.



It was stated that these frigs are the equivalent as officer fit with max boost.


the dramiel's autocannons with high end fusion ammo for explosive damage getting a wrecking shot of 500 damage on a retribution's armor resist of over 85% to explosive is ridiculous

officer modules aren't better than A and X type dead space modules save for guns, but faction and officer small guns are so stupidly rare it creates for an extremely high damage threshold that few players ever have seen.

Remove EWAR immunity, make them susceptible to TD, neuting, sensor damping, and scramming and these missions actually become fair. Not hyper min-maxing ships to do them and scrape by
Queotzcatl
RENEGADES YIY HEKATEK
#146 - 2014-09-16 17:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Queotzcatl
By the way, the HARPY FIT FOR THE GURISTAS WORM is this.

4X NEUTRON BLASTER T2 - VOID
1X ROCKET LAUNCHER - CN MIJOLNIR

1X MWD T2
1X WARP SCRAM T2
1X SMALL ELECTROMECH -400 NAVY - 10 IN CARGO

2X NANO T2
1X OVERDRIVE T2

1 SMALL AUX THRUST T2
1 SMALL KIN SHIELD T2

ENYO BASE SPEED IS ALITTLE FASTER, BUT CANT FLY ONE ATM.

10% MWD BOOST FROM 6-8 IMPLANTS IS REQUIRED.
ENYO SHOULD REACH, WITH SAME FIT (ARMOR TYPE) 4300m/s without implants.
there's very little room to play with...
Aldstealth Senx
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2014-09-16 18:00:40 UTC
The sad thing is to have to overheat... so every mission we will spend a lot just to repair the ship and the isk/h rate gets WAY down.

miss amarr ships at the list but hey... the win matters the most right! nice job at the stats
Tes Tosteron
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2014-09-16 19:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tes Tosteron
After losing one Assault Frig, I finally managed to solo the Angel Burner mission against the Dramiel quite easy with my Vengeance. I would like to share what I tried to get there.

My first fault was to not fit enough tank. Just a Small Armor Repairer isn't enough if you want to survive. Even with really high resists you will die over time. I have "Assault Frigates" at V but that did not help me. I have to mention that I am a "gunnery" guy and have not a single missile implant. If you have missile implants, the job is a little bit easier.

That's why i had to switch to something more expensive and used Centii A-Type SAR (70mil) which almost doubled my tank. I used anti-explosive rig and anti-EM membrane. I added "Angel Burner" profile in EFT with the damage stats provided from the spreadsheet (32.3 / 0 / 11.3 / 56.4). This resulted in 177 specific tank.

Now I was able to tank him for hours. But I was lacking in DPS. Most of the Youtube videos are risky fits and not sustainable. They work of course because of really high DPS. But if someone lacks some skills, he will die because of low DPS.

Using even the "smallest" (i.e. highest tracking) pulse lasers and autocannons is useless (40 signature radius). They only hit in one out of ten shots and then they often only scratch for 10-20 damage. Tracking speed won't help on that. Just go with the empty high slot. If it is necessary, you can fit a vampire module, but 15 CPU is quite a lot on a tight fitting. If you feel better, you can fit the 125mm gatling with EMP S (no faction needed, waste of ISK since it almost never hits).

Anyways. I used Faction EM Rockets with Arbalest Launchers. I only have "Rockets" at IV, as well as all support missile skills at IV. Therefore I cannot use T2 launchers as well as I miss the last 5% damage bonus and some signature/explosion velocity bonus. However with two Ballistic Control Systems I thought to get him. Pure rocket DPS from EFT/Fitting menu was 148. But even with 3 webs I only got "real" volley hits at 127/128 against him. This was not enough. I tried to switch off one web but this lowered my volley hits down to 96/97. So 3 webs were necessary for me.

In case you cannot bring his shields down, just align for the next stargate and wait until you get about 200-250km away from his hideout. He will let you go and you can warp out. If in doubt, fit more tank for the first tries. Later on, you can improve damage until you get the sweet spot between reliable tank und sufficient DPS. You will end up cheaper this way. ;-)

So I read through this topic to find my fitting fault. Some people killed the Dramiel with rockets even without any Ballistic Control Systems. Target Painters were no option for me because they drained my cap much heavier than the webs. Finally, I can only repeat: the most important thing is to decrease your rockets explosion radius or increase his sig radius. Until this point, I had a CCC rig to get cap stable but without it my tank would only last 5-10 minutes (depending on implants). However, I am cap stable, if i switch of some webs. So I gave it a try and I fitted Warhead Rigor Catalyst II (only 7m) instead of the CCC rig. And this did the trick! Explosion radius for my rockets went down from 16 to 12.8. If I had perfect All-V missile skills, I could even go down to 12. Someone mentioned the guy has an insane 11 sig radius. Now, my volley hits landed with 150/151 on him. This is more than enough, it took me no longer than 2 minutes to bring him down. No reload on the missles was necessary. His shields just melted like butter in the sun.

According to my combat log with my 287 theoretic volley hits, I only got 234 on hull. That is, he is still mitigating my damage by almost 25%. So even lower explosion radius and higher explosion velocity will give more effective DPS - a lot more than additional pure % damage increases would. Training up the according missile skills will help on that.

So there we go. This is my "cheap" layout (148 dps, 177 specific tank):

[Burner - Angel - Faction - cheap]
Centii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Prototype Energized EM Membrane I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Small Anti-Explosive Pump II
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst II


And this is the one to have even better tank and more DPS. But will cost you some additional ISK. (155 dps, 186 specific tank)

[Burner - Angel - Faction]
Centii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Energized EM Membrane II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,EMP S
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Small Anti-Explosive Pump II
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Both setups worked a few times for me now. No overloading required at all.

However, I have switched to the second one. I feel safer with that and can bring him down really fast - without any rocket reloading. Tank would be sustainable if you switch of some webs (if something goes wrong, you can tank him forever and warp away). Tank lasts 5-10min (depending on implants) with all the 3 webs. And you will need all the 3 webs to make enough damage.

I hope this will help you if you are still trying to master this mission.
jackudza
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2014-09-16 20:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: jackudza
Tes Tosteron wrote:

...
My first fault was to not fit enough tank. Just a Small Armor Repairer isn't enough if you want to survive. Even with really high resists you will die over time. I have "Assault Frigates" at V but that did not help me. I have to mention that I am a "gunnery" guy and have not a single missile implant. If you have missile implants, the job is a little bit easier.

That's why i had to switch to something more expensive and used Centii A-Type SAR (70mil) which almost doubled my tank. I used anti-explosive rig and anti-EM membrane. I added "Angel Burner" profile in EFT with the damage stats provided from the spreadsheet (32.3 / 0 / 11.3 / 56.4). This resulted in 177 specific tank.
...


Actually you do not need A-Type or something expensive. From my practice Vengeance forever tanks Angel Burner without any movement or overheating just with the following:
Small Armor Repairer II
Energized EM Membrane II + Small Anti-EM Pump I (or any 2 of them that give > 82.2 EM resist).
Your resists must be equal or higher then 82.2 EM, 70 KI, 84 EX. You should be able to tank >114 DPS and it is enough. Verified with about 1 hour tanking.

Perfect skills of course but not implants/boosters.

Actually Angel Burner is the easiest of all but generates more LP and this is very strange.


Aldstealth Senx wrote:
The sad thing is to have to overheat... so every mission we will spend a lot just to repair the ship and the isk/h rate gets WAY down.

miss amarr ships at the list but hey... the win matters the most right! nice job at the stats


All repair costs about 500k. Or you can buy some expensive A-Type/Faction and do not use overheating at all.
You can see at least Vengeance vs Angel and Retribution vs Sansha on videos.
Tes Tosteron
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2014-09-16 23:44:23 UTC
jackudza wrote:
Actually you do not need A-Type or something expensive. From my practice Vengeance forever tanks Angel Burner without any movement or overheating just with the following:
Small Armor Repairer II
Energized EM Membrane II + Small Anti-EM Pump I (or any 2 of them that give > 82.2 EM resist).
Your resists must be equal or higher then 82.2 EM, 70 KI, 84 EX. You should be able to tank >114 DPS and it is enough. Verified with about 1 hour tanking.

Well, this is really interesting. Because this was my first opinion, too. I read through this topic and a lot of guys just use SAR II and any combination of EM/EXP or double EM resist improvement. So I decided to do it the same way. And I have Assault Frig and all Armor skills @ V. But this just did not work for me. Sitting still or moving with webbed ~140 m/s. He popped me within 30-45 seconds. The SAR II repair amount was not sufficient (127 specific tank). In my other tries, I had some nice ECM support from my second account, so we could both get away if it does not work.

In some other tests, I used the SAR II but two EM membranes, one EXP membrane and one EXP rig (pump). This also gives me 189 specific tank. This worked but then you lack DPS. In fact, any combination below 170 specific tank failed for me. In order to leave some low slots for DPS, I was forced to used the A-Type. Even faction was too weak for my situation (lasted longer but failed in the end).

Is it possible that these frigs do not have fixed damage but depend on system / security status / other circumstances? I read about that somehwere else that people are faced with different damage/tank variations of these uber-burner-frigs.
Queotzcatl
RENEGADES YIY HEKATEK
#151 - 2014-09-17 07:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Queotzcatl
jackudza wrote:
[quote=Tes Tosteron]
...
My first fault was to not fit enough tank.

Perfect skills of course but not implants/boosters.

Actually Angel Burner is the easiest of all but generates more LP and this is very strange.


Nice work there. You may find the Worm guristas is the harder then, without relevant speed implants, no T2 AS Frig can possibly rip the 4200 - 4300 m/s wall, apart the Enyo. But sacrificing two slow slots to speed mods. At least one implant is necessary.
Whilst Daredevil, Garmur, Worm itself can without implants or speed mods rip that wall, they fall below 80% vs Kin, or a bit higher, with a KIN resistance amplifier instead of an HP module - medium shield or 100mm plate -
Here collateral risk is even more evident, as just the hulls orbits between 85 and 110 Misk at Jita prices.
But you can save your precious implants. If jumping clones would be faster, it wouyld be less of an issue..
jackudza
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2014-09-17 18:49:59 UTC
Tes Tosteron wrote:

... I read through this topic and a lot of guys just use SAR II and any combination of EM/EXP or double EM resist improvement. So I decided to do it the same way. And I have Assault Frig and all Armor skills @ V. But this just did not work for me. Sitting still or moving with webbed ~140 m/s. He popped me within 30-45 seconds. The SAR II repair amount was not sufficient (127 specific tank).
...


Just for you 30 minutes of Angel Burner Cheap Tanking. I doubt NPC characteristics vary in some way. I cannot imagine how it popped you withing 30-45 seconds.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#153 - 2014-09-17 19:38:54 UTC
jackudza wrote:
Tes Tosteron wrote:

... I read through this topic and a lot of guys just use SAR II and any combination of EM/EXP or double EM resist improvement. So I decided to do it the same way. And I have Assault Frig and all Armor skills @ V. But this just did not work for me. Sitting still or moving with webbed ~140 m/s. He popped me within 30-45 seconds. The SAR II repair amount was not sufficient (127 specific tank).
...


Just for you 30 minutes of Angel Burner Cheap Tanking. I doubt NPC characteristics vary in some way. I cannot imagine how it popped you withing 30-45 seconds.



forgot to turn on part of this tank is my assumption
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2014-09-19 11:35:04 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
300-400 million isk equiped ships for missions that pay out roughly 8 million isk.
Burner missions aren't worth it.


Good for you that you have no clue at all.
Dramiel Burner mission right now pays 14k LP in a 0.5 system, all other roughly 9k LP lets say for simplicity 10k LP per mission. Add 9m bounty and payout subtract 1m repair costs. Now lets say you need at average 5min per misison from docking to docking. Some magic math with 1LP = 2k ISK, tada 336m every 12x burner missions. If you could do only Burner mission it would break EVE.
Any lasts words about posting stuff without having a clue.


In the 0.5 system I'm in the Burner missions have never gone above 9k LP max and I even got max skills in social.
Stephanie Rosefire
Atlas Protectorate and Empire Defense Agency
#155 - 2014-09-20 05:15:11 UTC
im annoyed that the burner missions can only be done by 1 ship... sigh.

anyway, it looks like the burner angel would have a tough time against a succubus, seeing that the succubus has EM damage (burner angel has 0% em shield resists) and has that AB bonus, so wouldnt be super affected against the scram.
jackudza
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2014-09-20 10:00:31 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
...
In the 0.5 system I'm in the Burner missions have never gone above 9k LP max and I even got max skills in social.


Just got 11.5k LP for Angel burner in 0.6 with social skills at 4 but only 7.6k for Blood Raider burner in the same system.

How to defeat angel burner with only 2 mid slots:
Angel Anomic Site - Retribution
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#157 - 2014-09-20 14:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
@Celthric Kanerian
Not every 0.5 system is the same, EVE does not display the real sec status 0.5 can be between 0,45000 and 0.55000. The difference in LP is quite huge. Use dotlan or http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/solarsystem.php to get the real sec status.

System sec with 0.46121
Angel Burner ~14.1k LP
Other Burner ~9.2k LP

System sec with 0.52091
Angel Burner ~13.8k LP
Other Burner ~8.9k LP


etc.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Tes Tosteron
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2014-09-24 14:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tes Tosteron
Got my first few Sansha Burner missions. I tried the Wolf setups from the first pages and they work really great. However, I did change them a little according to my implants.

With +5% cap implant it is even capstable @ 34% and you can run it forever. So there is no risk at all even if you cannot bring enough dps - you can warp out if you get away far enough. With my current skills/imps, the fitting gives me 222 dps, 195 hps specific tank (EFT) and a nice falloff of 17.4km. Killed it in less than 2 minutes.

I am always hitting the Succubus between 50-230, most times at 180-220. Sometimes I even smash or penetrate for 330-350. Just warp in and sit still. No moving required at all. And no overheading needed for any modules, too.

A nice thing that could happen is when the Succubus bumps off the surrounding sansha structure (happens quite often). It gets as close as 13km and speed is getting down to 2000 m/s then for a few seconds until recovering back to his 15km and 3100 m/s.

And in a few cases he actually got stuck in the surrounding structure with speed at 100-200 m/s then. Well, it does not last longer than 20-30 seconds at this speed. :D If you actually start approaching it while stucked, it even gets stucked forever, since it tires to get back its 15km orbit and therefore digging even more into the structure. Quite mean but hey ... EVE is not about fairness.


[Sansha Burner - Wolf]
Small Armor Repairer II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Coreli A-Type EM Plating
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Computer II,Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II,Optimal Range Script
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S

200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II
Small Projectile Ambit Extension II
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#159 - 2014-09-25 18:04:15 UTC
I ran my first few Burner missions on an alt this morning - talk about a dissappointment!

CCP looked like it was finally going to introduce PVE that didn't suck and would introduce people to how to actually fly ships, but instead we get more of the same old nonsense. Instead of "use a realistic PVP fit frigate" we get, "use this rat specific setup with no prop mod, keep at range 10km, profit."

Please, CCP, go back to the drawing board.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2014-09-26 10:47:52 UTC
Went up against the cruor and after a few failed attempts I successfully killed it with this 50m Wolf fit.

[Wolf, CruorKiller]
Small Armor Repairer II
True Sansha Energized Thermic Membrane
Centii A-Type EM Plating
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Anti-Thermic Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II