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A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#801 - 2014-09-12 20:36:37 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

CCP *appears* to be banning people under blanket abstractions of 'real life harassment' announcements, to give them cover for banning people they don't LIKE, while avoiding the 'trouble' of having to defend such accusations in the real world.


Do you have any idea how stupid this argument is?
So suddenly a group that claims to be liked by CCP or CCP Falcon is not liked anymore?

Na, i will stick to "CCP knew what they were doing"

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
evepal
Scholar of Rationality
#802 - 2014-09-12 20:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: evepal
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

1) Where is the CSM on fighting on behalf of the players banned (and the community) to ensure guilt-by-association bans were not done as some are claiming occurred? Prove to me the CSM aren't just koolaid drinkers afraid to jeopardize their fanfest tickets...


Here's one link that shows a CSM member calling that into question: http://funkybacon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/as-ban-hammer-swings.html Source: - Funkybacon, CSM9. Please don't provide anecdotal evidence, and follow it up by questioning members who clearly are speaking on behalf of those who are banned.

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Be honest.


As for the rest of your points, they've been answered by many people prior to your post, from both view points. Please don't try to make this discussion cyclical, that doesn't help for the community to come to a conclusion on the matter.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#803 - 2014-09-12 20:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Admittedly, this is what makes it extremely difficult for me to empathize with these individuals. They actually enjoy taunting and provoking negative reactions from others. And they proudly post and display "tear collection" trophies publicly so that others like them can enjoy and stroke their ego. If they can get their victims to rage-quit or rage-banned, that's just the sweet cherry on top. It's very sadistic behavior.

And by no means am I suggesting "they deserve to be doxxed" or threatened in real life. No one does. But how much empathy could you have for someone like this? They enjoy making others angry, upset, and miserable for cheap laughs and giggles.


One argument that comes often from "their" side is, thats just "a game" and "pixels shooting pixels", it is that hypocrisy that really angers me, an elaborate lie just to get more emotional responses.

And often when the **** hits the fan, it its the innocent and the noninvolved. Its realy bad that those guys mother cried, i really really hate something like that.

But playing with emotional resonses is playing with old duds. Some might blow right into your face.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#804 - 2014-09-12 20:45:01 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Admittedly, this is what makes it extremely difficult for me to empathize with these individuals. They actually enjoy taunting and provoking negative reactions from others. And they proudly post and display "tear collection" trophies publicly so that others like them can enjoy and stroke their ego. If they can get their victims to rage-quit or rage-banned, that's just the sweet cherry on top. It's very sadistic behavior.

And by no means am I suggesting "they deserve to be doxxed" or threatened in real life. No one does. But how much empathy could you have for someone like this? They enjoy making others angry, upset, and miserable for cheap laughs and giggles.


One argument that come often from "their" side is, thats just "a game" and "pixels shooting pixels", it is that hypocrisy, an elobaret lie just to get more emotional responses.

And often when the **** hits the fan, it its the innocent and the noninvolved. Its realy bad that those guys mother cried, i really really hate something like that.

But playing with emotional resonses is playing with old bombs. Some might blow right into your face.

No.

Remiel was playing EVE in a perfectly acceptable and legitimate way.
This does not ******* excuse doxing and real life threats to person and family. If you think so you are blaming the victim.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#805 - 2014-09-12 20:47:10 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Admittedly, this is what makes it extremely difficult for me to empathize with these individuals. They actually enjoy taunting and provoking negative reactions from others. And they proudly post and display "tear collection" trophies publicly so that others like them can enjoy and stroke their ego. If they can get their victims to rage-quit or rage-banned, that's just the sweet cherry on top. It's very sadistic behavior.

And by no means am I suggesting "they deserve to be doxxed" or threatened in real life. No one does. But how much empathy could you have for someone like this? They enjoy making others angry, upset, and miserable for cheap laughs and giggles.


One argument that comes often from "their" side is, thats just "a game" and "pixels shooting pixels", it is that hypocrisy that really angers me, an elaborate lie just to get more emotional responses.

And often when the **** hits the fan, it its the innocent and the noninvolved. Its realy bad that those guys mother cried, i really really hate something like that.

But playing with emotional resonses is playing with old duds. Some might blow right into your face.


So because you get emotional about me destroying your pixels with my pixels I should be banned... Great!
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#806 - 2014-09-12 20:47:22 UTC
Andski wrote:
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence



Now where have i heard that before?

Could it have been you and the other line deniers demanding evidence from CCP. Evidence that would inevitably reveal some of how they go after you lug nuts that are dying to have a rule to skirt? Evidence that would reveal some of how their security works so you could script around it?

You think you're important enough to be privy to that, do you?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Good Christ, you people are delusional.

Mr Epeen Cool
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#807 - 2014-09-12 20:48:54 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Andski wrote:
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence



Now where have i heard that before?

Could it have been you and the other line deniers demanding evidence from CCP. Evidence that would inevitably reveal some of how they go after you lug nuts that are dying to have a rule to skirt? Evidence that would reveal some of how their security works so you could script around it?

Nobody was asking for that.
They were asking for reasons why these people were banned. That doesn't reveal anything about CCP's security.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#808 - 2014-09-12 20:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Remiel was playing EVE in a perfectly acceptable and legitimate way.

He did a lot of things. I dont know the details, but no wonder he is a posts a lot here.
His way of playing and his account maybe in danger of a future ban.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

This does not ******* excuse doxing and real life threats to person and family. If you think so you are blaming the victim.

Thinking is not blaming. I explanned more than enough that in this case his mother was the victim of a criminal act.

But *what* i say is, that his style of playing is in constant "danger" of those reactions.

IIshira wrote:

So because you get emotional about me destroying your pixels with my pixels I should be banned... Great!


I did not write something like that.
Please read ALL the letters in my posts, not only the ones you recognise easily

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#809 - 2014-09-12 20:52:44 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Andski wrote:
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence



Now where have i heard that before?

Could it have been you and the other line deniers demanding evidence from CCP. Evidence that would inevitably reveal some of how they go after you lug nuts that are dying to have a rule to skirt? Evidence that would reveal some of how their security works so you could script around it?

Nobody was asking for that.
They were asking for reasons why these people were banned. That doesn't reveal anything about CCP's security.


Don't ever apply to detective school. You'd be wasting your money.

Mr Epeen Cool
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#810 - 2014-09-12 20:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
La Rynx wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Admittedly, this is what makes it extremely difficult for me to empathize with these individuals. They actually enjoy taunting and provoking negative reactions from others. And they proudly post and display "tear collection" trophies publicly so that others like them can enjoy and stroke their ego. If they can get their victims to rage-quit or rage-banned, that's just the sweet cherry on top. It's very sadistic behavior.

And by no means am I suggesting "they deserve to be doxxed" or threatened in real life. No one does. But how much empathy could you have for someone like this? They enjoy making others angry, upset, and miserable for cheap laughs and giggles.


One argument that come often from "their" side is, thats just "a game" and "pixels shooting pixels", it is that hypocrisy, an elobaret lie just to get more emotional responses.

And often when the **** hits the fan, it its the innocent and the noninvolved. Its realy bad that those guys mother cried, i really really hate something like that.

But playing with emotional resonses is playing with old bombs. Some might blow right into your face.

No.

Remiel was playing EVE in a perfectly acceptable and legitimate way.
This does not ******* excuse doxing and real life threats to person and family. If you think so you are blaming the victim.


No you're wrong. The guy just got his pixels destroyed by some mean ganker. It wasn't his fault he had an emotional response and threatened to kill the ganker in RL. CCP obviously needs to ban the ganker for causing this emotional response.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#811 - 2014-09-12 20:53:54 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Remiel was playing EVE in a perfectly acceptable and legitimate way.

He did a lot of things. I dont know the details, but no wonder he is a posts a lot here.
His way of playing and his account maybe in danger of a future ban.

Oh, so because someone took it too far and doxxed him, he must have done something wrong?
That's blaming.

La Rynx wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This does not ******* excuse doxing and real life threats to person and family. If you think so you are blaming the victim.

Thinking is not blaming. I explanned more than enough that in this case his mother was the victim of a criminal act.

But not him, right? No of course not. You're blaming.

La Rynx wrote:
But *what* i say is, that his style of playing is in constant "danger" of those reactions.

Driving a car puts you in constant danger of a sudden and early death. Does that mean I deserve it if I get into an accident?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#812 - 2014-09-12 20:59:43 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
And by no means am I suggesting "they deserve to be doxxed" or threatened in real life. No one does. But how much empathy could you have for someone like this? They enjoy making others angry, upset, and miserable for cheap laughs and giggles.


The same empathy I have for someone who gets threatened or harassed for bragging about a Chess tournament win (bragging which sometimes makes the losers of the tournament angry, upset, and/or miserable).

They are the victim of a crime/EULA violation*.

And there you are blaming them for being such.


*I don't know if doxxing is a crime everywhere/anywhere, but making threats certainly is in many jurisdictions.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Snupe Doggur
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#813 - 2014-09-12 21:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Snupe Doggur
evepal wrote:
There's a 3 hour recording on sound-cloud of a man and his wife taken past breaking point, when they already had possession of all his assets. Not only did they not stop when it when it was clear that the man was agitated well beyond necessary, but they further increased their efforts to humiliate him. To top this off, they then uploaded the audio of this as a trophy for what great job they had done to these individuals, and shared them publicly.

Now, I absolutely love scamming and making people sing for their pod (even if they still blow it up anyway). I however, do not appreciate when people find it necessary to break an individual down to point of physical distress for the sake of self enjoyment alone...

And all the whining and demanding of specific directives is just players trying to gain an edge in the game they choose to play in the real world by exploiting CCP assets, tarring CCP's name by association.

Anyone demanding detailed, specific instructions on how not to get banned for harrassment, pony up! You go first. Post links to your audio captures. You want specifics? Provide your own, because that's how you find out what's behind the curtain. TOS and EULA make that much perfectly clear.

No? Worried that that audio might get you banned? Then reevaluate your behavior. What you are afraid to post is exactly what CCP wants you afraid to do.

There's your line. You draw it. Wherever you feel comfortable.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#814 - 2014-09-12 21:02:08 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:

And there you are blaming them for being such.


guys fishing for emotional reactions maybe victims, but are they innocent?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#815 - 2014-09-12 21:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Do you really think there is an employee in CCP HQ who receives a file with hard incontrovertible evidence about a doxxer who sends threats in real life and decides "oh actually I will not ban this person, I really want him to stay in the game despite the cast iron case against him mwahaha"?

Or maybe for a more likely reason like, ykno, maybe just not enough evidence?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#816 - 2014-09-12 21:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
La Rynx wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

And there you are blaming them for being such.


guys fishing for emotional reactions maybe victims, but are they innocent?



Did they commit a crime? An EULA violation?

No to both?

Then yes, they are absolutely innocent. That you may find their behavior distasteful is irrelevant.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
evepal
Scholar of Rationality
#817 - 2014-09-12 21:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: evepal
I'm going to try and bring this topic back on to track.

The questions that I'd like to see answered are:

Should CCP ban players for causing real life harassment, if the origin of their relationship was EvE or they're using assets within EvE to facilitate/aid that harassment?

Should CCP publicly divulge information into their investigation and the outcome of that, if it was a ban? and is this decision pivotal on the popularity of the case, or the person at question?

Should CCP provide statements on a investigation, if that information is made public not of CCPs doing? Of course, this question is a follow up to the last one.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#818 - 2014-09-12 21:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
La Rynx wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Admittedly, this is what makes it extremely difficult for me to empathize with these individuals. They actually enjoy taunting and provoking negative reactions from others. And they proudly post and display "tear collection" trophies publicly so that others like them can enjoy and stroke their ego. If they can get their victims to rage-quit or rage-banned, that's just the sweet cherry on top. It's very sadistic behavior.

And by no means am I suggesting "they deserve to be doxxed" or threatened in real life. No one does. But how much empathy could you have for someone like this? They enjoy making others angry, upset, and miserable for cheap laughs and giggles.


One argument that comes often from "their" side is, thats just "a game" and "pixels shooting pixels", it is that hypocrisy that really angers me, an elaborate lie just to get more emotional responses.

And often when the **** hits the fan, it its the innocent and the noninvolved. Its realy bad that those guys mother cried, i really really hate something like that.

But playing with emotional resonses is playing with old duds. Some might blow right into your face.

That's the thing. When your intentions are to provoke the individual behind the keyboard into lashing out and getting upset it is no longer "in-game". At that point it is no longer targeting or hurting the character that they're after. They're looking to provoke real negative responses from the person controlling the character, the real person, that is. Their intent is to get the individual away from a playing atmosphere to one of rage and anger for their enjoyment.

This, of course, does not apply to a player who blows you up and leaves it at that. I'm talking about individuals that intentionally seek out to "collect" and "harvest tears".

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#819 - 2014-09-12 21:08:45 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

And there you are blaming them for being such.


guys fishing for emotional reactions maybe victims, but are they innocent?


You are absolutely disgusting, I hope you know that.

I already gave my side of it, I awoxed someone's corp, kept it up for about two days with a cloaked ship to force them to disband since they wouldn't pay a ransom.

The butthurt carebear sicko doxxed me, and sent me threats using the in game mail client.

CCP did nothing.

And, either because you have to advance your narrative or because you really are just as sick as the freak who did it to me in the first place, you are suggesting that it's my fault for being a "bad guy" in a video game.

Congratulations, you, and everyone like you, are the problem.

And as for "prove it", you lot can kiss the whitest part of my ass. I had to change my ****ing NAME after all that ****, I am not going to do it again just to satisfy the likes of you and your scumbag apologist friends.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#820 - 2014-09-12 21:08:49 UTC
Clearly that makes doxxing and death threats well deserved.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)