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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Random WHs and the New Small Ship WHs

First post
Author
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#381 - 2014-08-28 16:47:51 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
CCP troll level for w space? 10/10. I'll admit that I bit.


While you might very well think that, it is more likely that they really did not understand the consequences of their action, and as we are normally not overly vocal,so they thought that they probably knew what was best for us.


My own theory is that they realise they need to change nullsec, but are reluctant to do so without trialling some stuff out first, so at least some of these changes (and probably changes to lowsec and wspace in the future) are meant to model some analogous change in null.
Afk Moon Goo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#382 - 2014-08-28 17:24:22 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
CCP troll level for w space? 10/10. I'll admit that I bit.


While you might very well think that, it is more likely that they really did not understand the consequences of their action, and as we are normally not overly vocal,so they thought that they probably knew what was best for us.


My own theory is that they realise they need to change nullsec, but are reluctant to do so without trialling some stuff out first, so at least some of these changes (and probably changes to lowsec and wspace in the future) are meant to model some analogous change in null.


Not really; they changed stuff to wspace so blobbing is the way to go, ironically blobbing is exactly what made nullsec stagnant in first place.

I wonder why the great CSM members did nothing against this, good luck being the small guy in wspace now.
Enthropic
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#383 - 2014-08-28 17:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Enthropic
Afk Moon Goo wrote:

I wonder why the great CSM members did nothing against this, good luck being the small guy in wspace now.


If you had read the threadnought on mass-based spawn distance, it would become clear to you that our CSM wh-representative corbexx took part in the discussion, very vocally and actively, with well laid-out posts.

I have faith that he tried what he could.
Also, you should keep in mind, that CSM people, unike CCP devs, dont get paid for their work here.

Instead of flaming the CSM, you should rather ask why CCP apparently does not listen to them at all in this case.
Valenthe de Celine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#384 - 2014-08-28 17:48:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.

Great change, hopefully it means under a dozen wormholes in every system. That said, how about limiting it to 1, maybe 2 of these per wormhole? 4+ is just tedious chore to try to manage, and for any of the higher class WHs they already are pretty meaningless.

Granted, with T3 frigates and destroyers, and some T2 frigate logi, maybe it would revitalize interest in these low mass, no use wormholes?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#385 - 2014-08-28 18:37:14 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
krazyskillz wrote:
On a side note, I wonder how much money CCP anticipated on making when people have to start paying for the game and can no longer plex because they deem it to high risk.

Are you under the impression that people who PLEX are costing CCP subscription money?


Are you under impresion they are not?

A PLEX costs more than a month's subscription. So they're not.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence
The Initiative.
#386 - 2014-08-28 18:57:26 UTC
Reducing the number of worthless frig-only wh does not make this idea any less worthless. This **** is just annoying.

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#387 - 2014-08-28 19:08:58 UTC
theres solution

1. rollback hyperion
2. test the all functionality on tranquility
3. listen to players
4. players approve hyperion
5. hyperion goes live servers
6. if something is wrong point 1

Valenthe de Celine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#388 - 2014-08-28 21:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Valenthe de Celine
Amak Boma wrote:
theres solution

1. rollback hyperion
2. test the all functionality on tranquility
3. listen to players
4. players approve hyperion
5. hyperion goes live servers
6. if something is wrong point 1


Only 2 major parts need to be rolled back, the mass-based jump distances and the frigate WHs. Rest of the patch didn't harm anything I can see. The overview hiccup was fixed already, and they are already decreasing spawn rates on these new WH connections. Everything else isn't whats causing mass exodus from WHs to K-space.
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#389 - 2014-08-28 22:59:38 UTC
Maybe ccp should just grow some balls and directly fix what needs to be fixed, instead of trying to go around this.
Well known thing, everybody knows. Big **** is relying on it for too long maybe - too bad...
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
The Serenity Syndicate
#390 - 2014-08-29 04:34:25 UTC
The frigate based wormholes seem to have been fixed over time... I think we all just got a shock when CCP in their infinite wisdom spawned them all straight after DT. I dotn think they realised that we wormhole dwellers would be out there scanning hem all down within a few hours lol!

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public

Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#391 - 2014-08-29 09:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Necharo Rackham
Afk Moon Goo wrote:


Not really; they changed stuff to wspace so blobbing is the way to go, ironically blobbing is exactly what made nullsec stagnant in first place.


You are assuming they understand the impact of the changes they make prior to them making them. One interesting thing is how often a devblog is posted and a fairly significant flaw is found within the first few pages of replies - usually within hours.

You'd figure that devs who must have already spent days thinking about the changes should be able to spot the most obvious exploits.
Moloney
The Bilderberg Group
#392 - 2014-08-29 12:27:18 UTC
3 real money paid accounts cancelled until you open your eyes and pay some ******* attention to what we are saying.

The only things that we wanted changed were blackholes and pos management.

Experiment 32423
Doomheim
#393 - 2014-08-29 14:51:31 UTC
Perhaps a compromise would be to drastically reduce the lifetime of random connections, while still providing fresh PvP opportunities?

The current situation just hurts the smaller groups and kills off the little remaining PvE activity in lower class holes, give players the chance to protect themselves if they are willing to put the effort in, as in; higher frequency of new connections that you have to pay attention to, that have a short lifespan and thus won't create a mega highway in every system.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#394 - 2014-08-29 15:09:08 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Experiment 32423 wrote:
Perhaps a compromise would be to drastically reduce the lifetime of random connections, while still providing fresh PvP opportunities?

The current situation just hurts the smaller groups and kills off the little remaining PvE activity in lower class holes, give players the chance to protect themselves if they are willing to put the effort in, as in; higher frequency of new connections that you have to pay attention to, that have a short lifespan and thus won't create a mega highway in every system.



If the mass spawn change was not part of this whole equation, one might be able to establish the balance effects of the other changes, and a modicom of tweaking of the values, might help things, they are disruptive enough on their own to constitute a major change.

The difficuilty with wormholes is that there are not thousands or even hundreds of components to the mechanics, wormhole space is incredibly complicated DUE to the simplicity of the mechanisms involved, this allows tactics to develop and the occupancy of space effectively where common sense would say was near impossible.

When you mess with a complex system based on simple mechanics, a tiny change, upsets things immensely, look at areas of the world where new species get introduced.

These changes, have done exactly this, and the mass spawn change will have serious enough consequence enough on it's own.
The other changes, added to this are just going to push the whole ecology into extinction.

But just think, some well meaning person thought it was a good idea to introduce rabbits to australia, and asian carp to the american rivers.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Experiment 32423
Doomheim
#395 - 2014-08-29 16:28:04 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Experiment 32423 wrote:
Perhaps a compromise would be to drastically reduce the lifetime of random connections, while still providing fresh PvP opportunities?

The current situation just hurts the smaller groups and kills off the little remaining PvE activity in lower class holes, give players the chance to protect themselves if they are willing to put the effort in, as in; higher frequency of new connections that you have to pay attention to, that have a short lifespan and thus won't create a mega highway in every system.



If the mass spawn change was not part of this whole equation, one might be able to establish the balance effects of the other changes, and a modicom of tweaking of the values, might help things, they are disruptive enough on their own to constitute a major change.

The difficuilty with wormholes is that there are not thousands or even hundreds of components to the mechanics, wormhole space is incredibly complicated DUE to the simplicity of the mechanisms involved, this allows tactics to develop and the occupancy of space effectively where common sense would say was near impossible.

When you mess with a complex system based on simple mechanics, a tiny change, upsets things immensely, look at areas of the world where new species get introduced.

These changes, have done exactly this, and the mass spawn change will have serious enough consequence enough on it's own.
The other changes, added to this are just going to push the whole ecology into extinction.

But just think, some well meaning person thought it was a good idea to introduce rabbits to australia, and asian carp to the american rivers.


Pretty much, yes, but I don't realistically expect CCP to revert any of the changes apart from minor tweaks.

And to think that some simple changes such as a rebalance in site income, especially lower classes, could have drastically increased WH population and thus PvP, to begin with.
Ren Kavik
Freyja Syndicate
The Initiative.
#396 - 2014-08-29 16:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ren Kavik
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.


We still have 5 wh connections in our wh.
Im to lazy to go around scanning them all.
Whats the status on others?

This use to be a rare occurance and we wouldnt bother with doing anything while they where there.
I can assure you that we wont change that policy. Even if that means leaving leaving the WH.

Btw here's a change all wormholers would apreciate.
When saving an anomaly location save the ID name with the name.
So it shows for instance MMA Unstable Wormhole.
Its not as good as being able to save and share scanned down anoms direct in mapscanview but its a small fix until your able to make that possible.
Valenthe de Celine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#397 - 2014-08-29 17:14:10 UTC
Ren Kavik wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.


We still have 5 wh connections in our wh.
Im to lazy to go around scanning them all.
Whats the status on others?

This use to be a rare occurance and we wouldnt bother with doing anything while they where there.
I can assure you that we wont change that policy. Even if that means leaving leaving the WH.

Btw here's a change all wormholers would apreciate.
When saving an anomaly location save the ID name with the name.
Its not as good as being able to save and share scanned down anoms direct in mapscanview but its a small fix until your able to make that possible.

Did I really just read that? You have 5 wormhole connections to your wormhole, and you're too lazy to scan them down?

First, how do you know they are wormholes if you didn't scan them down?

Second, get out of WH space, you don't belng there if you're too lazy to scan down sigs.

Third, you're obviously too lazy to live long in a WH, so leave. Oh, wait, on second thought, stay and farm PI or something. A raiding fleet will be along shortly to relieve you of your belongings.
Ren Kavik
Freyja Syndicate
The Initiative.
#398 - 2014-08-29 17:22:48 UTC
Valenthe de Celine wrote:
Ren Kavik wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.


We still have 5 wh connections in our wh.
Im to lazy to go around scanning them all.
Whats the status on others?

This use to be a rare occurance and we wouldnt bother with doing anything while they where there.
I can assure you that we wont change that policy. Even if that means leaving leaving the WH.

Btw here's a change all wormholers would apreciate.
When saving an anomaly location save the ID name with the name.
Its not as good as being able to save and share scanned down anoms direct in mapscanview but its a small fix until your able to make that possible.

Did I really just read that? You have 5 wormhole connections to your wormhole, and you're too lazy to scan them down?

First, how do you know they are wormholes if you didn't scan them down?

Second, get out of WH space, you don't belng there if you're too lazy to scan down sigs.

Third, you're obviously too lazy to live long in a WH, so leave. Oh, wait, on second thought, stay and farm PI or something. A raiding fleet will be along shortly to relieve you of your belongings.


well obviously i scanned them down smarty pants otherwise i wouldnt know that there whs now would i...

I just didnt go into them and scan those down. But im glad your atleast able to read.
Alicia Stormbringer
xLegion of the dammedx.
Moose Alliance
#399 - 2014-08-29 21:56:13 UTC
Sounds like trying to force people out of WHs so many random holes is going to make it hard to live in them for those not pvp oriented who you seem to pander for all the time
Sto Lo
The Corporation of Noble Sentiments
#400 - 2014-08-29 23:48:10 UTC
Well, i don't post very much but, CCP you screwed my C3 over supremely. I'm facing 6 wormhole connections daily . Now if i had 15 active players i might be able to live with that, but as it is i don't. We can't PVE, PVP or literally play EVE. I just jumped into a c4 off of my c3 it had 37 sigs, 37!! What have you done?