Player Features and Ideas Discussion

My reading and changes I see being made suggests that CCP is interested in ideas that present new players with potential interactions with even very advanced players.

As a fairly new player myself (5 mil skill) and being somewhat vested in exploration and stealth, I find myself enjoying making excursions into low-/nul-sec and wormhole space.

Lately I have been actively seeking data/relic sites in lowsec, sneaking around in my shiny Helios, or silently lumbering in my Stratios. All is well...

But what about wormhole space? The guarded sites therein are far beyond my capability to approach; my little Helios would likely get one-shotted at 100km by those sleepers. Yet here I have had the good fortune to find these sites, and the WH that gets you there, and taken the time to scan down the locations, which I can bookmark.

But now what? I can't get near them, but others can. Surely, information is money, but how can I make a transaction with an interested party who might be willing to pay for these bookmarks? How to find these parties?

As things stand, even if I find a buyer, I don't see a way to give them the bookmark other than fleet up and lead them there. Well, if I was some wanderer in a big city, and I found a secret treasure in a dark place, but had not the power to acquire it, would I be wise to find some strong gangster types and walk into that dark alley with them to point at the treasure?

I have read about copying bookmarks, but have not seen how to do it, and that only within a corporation (or soon-to-be alliance?). What about individual-to-individual?

And how to make a secure trade?

Proposal:
Make this information a commodity item which can be traded; either manually or by contract (buy or sell).

Note I said "information" not "bookmark". Bookmarks need not be changed at all, and if they were made saleable the whole idea would die under a deluge of scams.

But a scanner item, once pinpointed (warp-to capable) could be right-clicked, with a one-time option to Generate Commodity or whatever term floats your boat. It must be one-time since the item must be unique. In this way, the generated item is "verified" authentic.

The item created would contain information about what the coordinates represent, and what system they are found in (who wants to cross to the opposite side of space - unless you really like jumping). This information must be visible under "information" on the item so potential buyers can peruse that data before buying. This is a very age-sensitive commodity, so a timestamp is essential in this information

Here is where it gets a bit complicated. I believe the most viable item represented here will be something of value in wormhole space, and that has no value at all unless a buyer is provided with at least one wormhole leading into the appropriate system. Unfortunately, this requires at least one pair of wormhole coordinates which must be able to be "attached" to this generated commodity. The normal-space entry point, and the matching exit point inside WH space to get back where you started. It would be better to allow several such pairs (where multiple WHs have been scanned down). It would be icing on the cake to be able to chain them (normal space to WH space A to WH space B containing the target item).

This process would need to be idiot proof - as the user creates the new "item", the process of attaching WH coordinates must be verified as valid (in the background by the code that runs this feature). This can still place a deliberate burden of intent upon the user; they can be required to right-click a WH they find in normal space, and "add verified location" or some such option that has the simple mechanic of adding this wormhole to a list of information available to the "Generate Commodity" function when choosing to add WH access points. Perhaps the command should be "Verify and Jump", which does three things; records the entry point, jumps through, and records the exit point.

Once inside the WH system, if the user scans down other WHs, they can warp to them, use the "Verify and Jump" command (then jump back again if they want to stay in the WH system) thus adding more entry/exit points to attach to the resource.

If this is extended to make the WHs chainable (Normal-A-B), then the process of scanning down WHs in additional systems is simply repeated, followed by "Verify and Jump".

The data so gathered of WH pairs should have a limited life - 4 hours maybe? Then it is automatically deleted.

At a minimum, the feature must check that the attached WHs are valid - that they actually provide a route from some point in normal space to the Commodity Item being created. If you CCP folk get a little excited, maybe this interface could do some clever background work enabling it to then list all valid links it finds in the data list the user just created, with check boxes to select which ones to add. Or simply add everything determined to be valid.

Lastly, this Commodity is pure data; no physical substance. Thus, when the user creates a contract for it, such a contract created ANYwhere in EVE is available for purchase EVERYwhere in EVE. There should be no trade range applied; there are no "logisitics" for data.

In Closing
While I think all the information in this new commodity must be verified authentic by the game to ensure viability of this idea, there is still plenty of risk for all involved.

The Explorer is taking risks flying around (probably solo like me) in low-/nullsec or WH space. And the commodity is of course extremely perishable, so it is still very much caveat emptor. Plenty of risk to go around.

Bottom line is that this concept allows a pretty new player to provide a real service to big shots, and perhaps make some serious ISK in the process.

I think that depends on WHAT your SP has been spent! I'm not so great on the fighting side - stealth and exploration has been my main investment, with enough mining to pay for things.


I am inexperienced - please explain your statement...


Okay, but again - how?

Bottom line is I'm wondering how to make Exploring pay. Seems that every "career path" should have some profit in it, and that profit should increase with the investment of SP. WH data/relic/gas sites are always guarded and are beyond *my* capabilities to get at.

My idea is aimed at getting folk in this situation (patient pathfinders as opposed to frenetic fighters :) ) some ISK for the work (and good fortune) of having found something valuable.

Keep in mind too I roll solo atm. Pretty sure I'm not alone in that (pun intended). One guy with minimal weapon/tank/EW etc can't handle sleepers.

How do I do that? Never heard of Buddy Bookmarks.

Sometimes I think the EVE learning curve is more like a cliff! :)

Ah, thank you.


lol




I'm a lone wolf more or less... no corp (well, npc corp)

Comments so far have answered several questions I had (and raised a few I didn't know I needed to ask).

However, I still propose my concept for one very important reason - verified resource. The feature would ensure that only an actual scanned down site could be used to create one of these commodities.

Bookmarks completely fail this test because a bookmark can be made of anything (or nothing), and be named anything.

There is still plenty of risk... The wormholes might collapse, someone might get to the resource first...


...and it is just an idea...

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that CCP does NOT condone the creation of contracts that CANNOT be fulfilled. My early days of freighting taught me the trick of say 500K for the contract, 10M security, then you cannot dock at the destination because permission is refused.

I'm pretty sure that is one of the few actionable "offenses".

And, when it comes to buying an item, you can always (can't you?) see what you are buying. I'm thinking the market window. Did I say "contract" before? You have to have REAL item to create a trade, right? No scam there.

I must say, I'm a bit surprised at the resistance to this idea.

Also, I think you old timers (and maybe CCP too) lose sight of the view from the newbie seats. This is a feature not likely to appeal to veterans, but is aimed at newer players.

Perhaps my mistake is assuming anyone would be interested in the buying this information in the first place.

Oh well... twas just a thought.

Okay, I'll consider myself beaten.

Do I have to pay you 10mil now not to pod me? rofl

Let alone, regardless whether it's bookmarks or another item of this same site, it always involves unnecessary risk. If I sell a bookmark of a 10/10 or a Relic Site, which assurance does the buyer have that I don't wait for him and kill him (High sec obviously excluded from this. In this area, this approach is pointless anyways because way too many people run sites there and your plex/site is statistically speaking already gone once you leave the system.). Since EVE is a game, a hobby, where there is no trust, a functionality, which requires a whole lot of it, cannot work. Ever.

buying and selling bookmarks does work and is used

Okay, I see your point.

However, my proposal is such that we are -not- buying/selling bookmarks, but a commodity item just like ammo or turrets. This contains the equivalent of a bookmark, but the data contained -cannot- be created by any means other then right-clicking on an actual site (eg relic/data/gas etc.), and the bookmark info for the WHs to access it are similarly created by the interface, -never- arbitrarily by the user.

So, the "product" is "verified" by the process that creates it.

That does not preclude someone camping the location, the WHs, or mining the relic/data/gas to exhaustion once the "commodity" had been created. But, as everyone keeps saying, EVE = risk, so...

And, not meaning to be rude, but remember that just because -you- don't think the risk is acceptable, there will be others who do. Just because you would not be interested is not a very good reason for you to shoot down the idea.