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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

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Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#281 - 2014-08-22 23:34:33 UTC
Ecrir Twy'Lar wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I'm surprised there is so much focus on sec status. It's the 30 days of kill rights that are the PITA. If the gankee sets them reasonably low, then they make it difficult to operate.

I ganked mission boats for a few weeks a while back. Keeping my sec status positive was easy. The kill rights were the issue. I couldn't fly my gank ships from a trade hub to the gank system. We ended up needed out of corp haulers to get them there. The there was the issue of having the kill rights activated as you moved in on your target.

The kill rights I liked were the ones that were too high to be worh anyones trouble to activate. 100mil isk kill right on a pilot in a naga just isn't worth it. The 1 isk ones were also ok. Just hop in a noob ship and have a buddy clear it. You want to hurt the gankers activities - make his kill rights available to all and then choose the sweet spot where the costs of self clearing it hurt his bottome line, but the value for someone else to activate it are just fine.

The more active a ganker is, the lower the price point.


What good are kill rights against criminals? You can already attack them for being a criminal. The problem is that they can dock in a station in a system where they are banned. I say stop letting criminals dock in highsec. Let other players actually have a chance to try and hunt them down. Don't prevent them from ganking though. They are providing us with more content. We need villains around.


All this would do is make ganking more tedious as you would have to make several more jumps to your target. It would cause many people to stop ganking, not because it is harder, but because it is boring.

It wouldn't do much to let you hunt them down either, because they would still be docked up most of the time. Just now they are docked in low sec instead of highsec.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#282 - 2014-08-22 23:36:37 UTC
Dirk Decibel wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, not all criminals are -10. TBH, the most dangerous criminals I know have positive sec status.

Any criminal -10 or not can be killed if you are willing to put in the effort.


The biggest anti-pirate/gank whiners are usually completely unwilling to put any effort in at all. They want game mechanics to keep them 100% safe and on top of that they want game mechanics to do their hunting for them as well...

When I got into ganking, I was shocked to find out just how little effort they are willing to put in. I expected ppl to come after me, camp my stations, hire mercs and what not. None of it, most they would do is make the killright available for free or very cheap. Only one guy made any sort of effort at all, he shot at me when we met outside a station while undocking. Unfortunately, he did not know he had to activate his kill right first so he got himself a not so pleasant meeting with the local CONCORD squad.

Having said that, I've failed ganks and/or gotten killed (even podded!) during those. But those where due to coincidental passers by, screw ups on my part or my favorite one: laaaaaaaaaaag.


I noticed this as well. Everyone says "we should group up and wipe out Code!" but its very rare for people to do anything to stop us.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#283 - 2014-08-23 00:23:32 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:

I noticed this as well. Everyone says "we should group up and wipe out Code!" but its very rare for people to do anything to stop us.


I've engaged in this line of thinking myself.

Then I realized that if they were the kind of player who was capable of doing anything like that, they wouldn't be perennial victims themselves, or have such a problem with the New Order in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#284 - 2014-08-23 02:00:42 UTC
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
a way to reduce highsec ganking is to remove the option to turn in tags and buy your security status up. Everyone knew it was a stupied idea when introduced, i am supriced its still a thing
+

So you want to punish people who PVP solely in lowsec, too. I think thats teh suck.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#285 - 2014-08-23 05:14:21 UTC
Bah.

There is only one White Knight in the history of Code Enforcement that strikes fear into the hearts of Agents and Knights.

Only one who had the skills, the intelligence, and the ferocity to make any CODE supporter tremble.

I speak, of course, of the legendary....the vicious...the sexy.......


Sarah Flynt

Fear her.

FEAR HER.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#286 - 2014-08-23 05:51:14 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Bah.

There is only one White Knight in the history of Code Enforcement that strikes fear into the hearts of Agents and Knights.

Only one who had the skills, the intelligence, and the ferocity to make any CODE supporter tremble.

I speak, of course, of the legendary....the vicious...the sexy.......


Sarah Flynt

Fear her.

FEAR HER.


who?

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Solecist Project
#287 - 2014-08-23 07:59:38 UTC
If you consider her sexy ...
... I consider myself heavily insulted. -.-

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#288 - 2014-08-23 08:05:22 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
While I don't necessarily agree with OP, some things about criminals are kinda dumb. Like, "Hey, we know you're a criminal and we will shoot you on sight, but you can dock in our station! Come on in!"

In any event, it's obvious CCP likes ganking and general mischief. If not, it'd be gone. So they wouldn't want to make it any harder to do.

A high sec undock is one of the worst places you can possibly be if you are below -5 sec status. If you see a -5 or less player undocking in high sec ~100% chance they are in an interceptor, a T1 frigate, a shuttle, a noobship or a pod and they are not going to suicide you in any of those. The reason they use those is because they ABSOLUTELY MUST get off of that undock fast, especially if the system is heavily populated as anyone can point them without cause or penalty and the faction police will do it if you don't.

What a load of uneducated bullshit.

I undock at the main station in Hek.

Thrashers, Ruptures, Tornados, Haulers, Battleships.

Please educate yourself first before you speak, noob.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#289 - 2014-08-23 08:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Forum double-volley.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#290 - 2014-08-23 16:26:48 UTC
Thread to long, didn't read. But do agree with stricter punishment. Simpler idea I have is just no more immortal clone, no more clone cost to upgrade (remove ship insurance, now exploding becomes the main isk sink), you update everytime you dock in a station but there will always be a minor difference between the last "save point" (like when you where working on a document, it autosaves, and the power went out a few minutes later...didn't save the work from the last couple minutes) to stick with the lore, and bob is your uncle. When your ship explodes, their ship explodes to CONCORD, you both lose at least a day's worth of skill points....problem solved. Kamikaze...where both opponents are the losers Twisted.

Additional ideas is both get heavily fined in ISK by CONCORD for wasting their time by pulling them from the donut shop while the omnipotent police destroy all the wrecks at the same time to keep the shipping lanes safe, hell CONCORD should be podding all parties involved for the last couple years (no where is safe except docked, rule one of EVE....not even CONCORD should be fair).

And if its for mining ship ganks, CCP is still better off getting rid of asteroids/mining barges/industry as a whole, seeding the minerals (or just plain ships) at outrageous prices, and not refunding the skill points for their stupid idea to put a ****** boring version of Minesweeper in EVE. Nobody likes miners, but miners think they are important but never get respect while the guys asploding them never give it in return. Double win, gets rid of the ganker's problem for them, miners can't get ganked anymore since they don't exist....yup, solves everybodies problems.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#291 - 2014-08-24 11:48:16 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Thread to long, didn't read. But do agree with stricter punishment. Simpler idea I have is just no more immortal clone, no more clone cost to upgrade (remove ship insurance, now exploding becomes the main isk sink), you update everytime you dock in a station but there will always be a minor difference between the last "save point" (like when you where working on a document, it autosaves, and the power went out a few minutes later...didn't save the work from the last couple minutes) to stick with the lore, and bob is your uncle. When your ship explodes, their ship explodes to CONCORD, you both lose at least a day's worth of skill points....problem solved. Kamikaze...where both opponents are the losers Twisted.

Additional ideas is both get heavily fined in ISK by CONCORD for wasting their time by pulling them from the donut shop while the omnipotent police destroy all the wrecks at the same time to keep the shipping lanes safe, hell CONCORD should be podding all parties involved for the last couple years (no where is safe except docked, rule one of EVE....not even CONCORD should be fair).

And if its for mining ship ganks, CCP is still better off getting rid of asteroids/mining barges/industry as a whole, seeding the minerals (or just plain ships) at outrageous prices, and not refunding the skill points for their stupid idea to put a ****** boring version of Minesweeper in EVE. Nobody likes miners, but miners think they are important but never get respect while the guys asploding them never give it in return. Double win, gets rid of the ganker's problem for them, miners can't get ganked anymore since they don't exist....yup, solves everybodies problems.


Please biomass, uninstall, and never come back.

You wish to remove ganking, mining, and clones? Seriously, go play a different game.

FFS people, if you dont want to get ganked, dont AFK, and tank your ships. It really couldnt be easier.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#292 - 2014-08-24 11:57:48 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
All this would do is make ganking more tedious as you would have to make several more jumps to your target. It would cause many people to stop ganking, not because it is harder, but because it is boring.

It wouldn't do much to let you hunt them down either, because they would still be docked up most of the time. Just now they are docked in low sec instead of highsec.
Ganking as it currently stands is way too easy. It takes days to make a gank alt, and if/when you decide to stop ganking you've got at most a 30 day wait and some tags to hand in and you've undone everything. Not that having a low sec status and kill rights really matters in the slightest. And you are against changing it to make it more difficult for the worry that putting effort into a gank would make it boring? Is that about right?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#293 - 2014-08-24 13:14:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Tear Jar wrote:
All this would do is make ganking more tedious as you would have to make several more jumps to your target. It would cause many people to stop ganking, not because it is harder, but because it is boring.

It wouldn't do much to let you hunt them down either, because they would still be docked up most of the time. Just now they are docked in low sec instead of highsec.
Ganking as it currently stands is way too easy. It takes days to make a gank alt, and if/when you decide to stop ganking you've got at most a 30 day wait and some tags to hand in and you've undone everything. Not that having a low sec status and kill rights really matters in the slightest. And you are against changing it to make it more difficult for the worry that putting effort into a gank would make it boring? Is that about right?


Ganking is only as easy (or hard) as the players make it. Don't ask CCP to regulate what players can alter by simply paying attention.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#294 - 2014-08-25 00:36:03 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Ganking is only as easy (or hard) as the players make it. Don't ask CCP to regulate what players can alter by simply paying attention.
Being a ganker is easy. It has nothing to do with the targets, the mechanics around ganking are simply too weak. Sure, some targets are softer than others, but pretty much everyone is gankable, and mostly killboard green too. There should be more consequences when making choices, not necessarily bad things happening, but things you have to give up and other things you have to do in their place.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#295 - 2014-08-25 01:05:04 UTC
A test then? I'll fly a hauler, you try to gank it. If what you say is true, you'll be able to spin up a capable gank pilot within a few days, and you should have no problem killing my tanked DST or blockade runner. You pick the trade hub, my cargo, and the destination. I'll choose how to get there.

I think you would find it isn't as easy as you think... When your dealing with someone who knows how to tank, uses bookmarks, and watches for obvious scouts.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#296 - 2014-08-25 11:21:37 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
A test then? I'll fly a hauler, you try to gank it. If what you say is true, you'll be able to spin up a capable gank pilot within a few days, and you should have no problem killing my tanked DST or blockade runner. You pick the trade hub, my cargo, and the destination. I'll choose how to get there.

I think you would find it isn't as easy as you think... When your dealing with someone who knows how to tank, uses bookmarks, and watches for obvious scouts.
Lol. So because a pilot can defend against a gank, that suddenly means it's difficult to be a ganker? There's absolutely no consequences to being a ganker. The things they say, "ooh, you can be a villain, but then you'll have low sec status!", who cares? Sec status is completely irrelevant except to make kill rights completely pointless, and when you're bored of ganking, you no longer need to rat to get it back to positive. Bounties are beyond a joke too.

I think you may have got yourself confused, so let me clear it up. I'm not saying every gank is easy, what I'm saying is that the choice of becoming a ganker is easy and easy to undo. I believe that when you make choices like that, you should commit to it, and there should be negatives as well as positives to making that choice. That should be the same with every choice in the game.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#297 - 2014-08-25 11:37:29 UTC
You said being a ganker is easy. So I asked if you'd like to prove that. I'm guessing that is a no?

Yes the security system is pointless. Tags are a bit overpowered, and bountys are lol. But the activity of actually making money from ganking is not easy.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
NotTheSmartestCookie
Shooting Blues Everyday
Gimme Da Loot
#298 - 2014-08-25 11:46:14 UTC
It is a lot easier to train a miner into a procurer than it is to train a skilled catalyst pilot. Ganks are also pretty damned easy to avoid if you are not AFK and/or tank your ship. If players are really unwilling to use the tools already given to them by CCP perhaps they should mine on Sisi for the ultimate in playing solo EVE.

Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time.

Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3.

Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#299 - 2014-08-25 12:08:26 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
You said being a ganker is easy. So I asked if you'd like to prove that. I'm guessing that is a no?

Yes the security system is pointless. Tags are a bit overpowered, and bountys are lol. But the activity of actually making money from ganking is not easy.
You asked me to prove it by ganking someone that is doing everything they can to not be ganked. That's not proving ganking isn't easy. That's proving that solo ganks can be prevented, which nobody is contesting. What I'm saying here is the choice to become a ganker isn't a choice, you can do it and undo it on a whim. Perhaps you don't think there should be consequences to choices in eve though. Maybe I had you figured wrong.

Perhaps if you actually read my posts you might understand what I'm saying. Or you can just continue to troll. Either way, I love watching gankers whine to no end that people have it so easy, while they can undo every single negative consequence that is given to "criminals" in short order. "Be a villain..." but stop being a villain at the drop of a hat if you want.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#300 - 2014-08-25 12:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
I'm not trolling you bud. I'm just saying it isn't easy to gank a target that is trying not to be ganked. I agree with your other points.

Edit: and everyone should ALWAYS be doing everything they can not to be ganked. The tools are there for players to prevent their losses.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment