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CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

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Cherry Yeyo
Doomheim
#241 - 2014-08-20 22:27:24 UTC
Ace Boogi wrote:
Enjoying the rain today? ;)

I for one, am enjoying the rain today

.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#242 - 2014-08-20 22:29:22 UTC
C'mon...Really...

This is just another AFK Cloaking Thread isn't it???
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#243 - 2014-08-20 22:29:36 UTC
Cherry Yeyo wrote:
Ace Boogi wrote:
Enjoying the rain today? ;)

I for one, am enjoying the rain today

I'm not sure rain is supposed to be this salty…
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2014-08-20 22:31:22 UTC
Dutow Sa wrote:
Deka Ekato wrote:
CCP,

- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT?
- What about CCP's involement in all of this?

I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle.


This. Unless you can clarify that he was involved in RMT, this entire situation looks like that you banned him for something that was at least 50% your own fault...
He was actually banned 50%, rounded up.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
AlphaMike1
Empire Labs
#245 - 2014-08-20 22:32:22 UTC
Time to move to IWANTISK!
Dutow Sa
Jupiter Fleet
#246 - 2014-08-20 22:33:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dutow Sa wrote:
To me, it's very clear from that document

Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But remember also that this was in an discussion with the VP of Sales, who may not even play the game at all. And again, he explicitly stated the Blink would offer no extra ISK for buying through the link - a lie.


Who was asked to forward it to the legal department, and reply with a written confirmation after that.

Any lawyer can figure out, that the 'for buying through the link' means exactly that part, and not the entire process.
Riela Tanal
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#247 - 2014-08-20 22:33:18 UTC
Since my question most likely got burried with the rage posts and trolling.


CCP Falcon, does this issue with SOMER Blink have any affect on the prizes they donated to Theomachy?

We have handed those out to players already.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#248 - 2014-08-20 22:37:40 UTC
Dutow Sa wrote:
Deka Ekato wrote:
CCP,

- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT?
- What about CCP's involement in all of this?

I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle.


This. Unless you can clarify that he was involved in RMT, this entire situation looks like that you banned him for something that was at least 50% your own fault...


Don't be daft. CCP's had a longstanding policy of not revealing any details about RMT investigations to the public. In this instance, they've confirmed the items already on the public record. Nor have they said for even a moment that they're blameless in this themselves - in fact, Falcon's pretty much given as much of a mea culpa for the company as responsible disciplinary policies allow, short of Lisa herself coming her and falling on her sword for your entertainment. And in most companies, she's probably heavily encouraged not to do that, as it goes against established procedures and sets an absolutely terrible precedent.
Synar Earthoof
OSD Clan FleetCom
Silver Dragonz
#249 - 2014-08-20 22:38:06 UTC
So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable. That's essentially the short of why you went after Somer. Since it doesn't look like you could get financial logs to prove a kick back.


Essentialy:
I buy plex from EvE site normally. I prefer to use Markee, and then I just dump it on market for about 15% above market average. Thus increasing my potential isk markup because someone is always dumb enough to buy without looking.

Because someone just payed me 15% more isk than a plex was worth at the time, I should in essence now be banned for having sold that isk on the market at a substantial mark up. That isk is then funneled into either manufacturing new ships, or used to be into blink so I could just blink on random stuff and then collect the isk payouts from them.



Cause in this case, god forbid I want to use any of the lottery sites as the logic instated puts me clearly in the wrong because I sell my plex's at a mark up, and then use the isk to gamble my day away at work when i can't play EvE.

*waits to get slapped in cuffs*
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2014-08-20 22:38:14 UTC
Dutow Sa wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dutow Sa wrote:
To me, it's very clear from that document

Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But remember also that this was in an discussion with the VP of Sales, who may not even play the game at all. And again, he explicitly stated the Blink would offer no extra ISK for buying through the link - a lie.


Who was asked to forward it to the legal department, and reply with a written confirmation after that.

Any lawyer can figure out, that the 'for buying through the link' means exactly that part, and not the entire process.

The extra ISK would not have been offered if nor for having bought the PLEX through the link.

There is a direct causal chain between buying PLEX through the link and getting extra ISK for it, which means that the sentence is a lie. Whatever happens in between is irrelevant.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#251 - 2014-08-20 22:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
Riela Tanal wrote:
Since my question most likely got burried with the rage posts and trolling.


CCP Falcon, does this issue with SOMER Blink have any affect on the prizes they donated to Theomachy?

We have handed those out to players already.


My guess is it won't. If there were assets tied up on Somer's end (i.e. not contracted over) then you may be SOL. I don't think CCP will take any ISK or assets from you since they came from Somer.
Chrytis
The Riot Formation
#252 - 2014-08-20 22:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Chrytis
You are the weakest blink, good bye.

Being banned from blink many times, for writing (open source) browser plugins to help you play more blink (and not being reimbursed for the billions deposited), I feel justice. hows that ToS now, Somer?
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#253 - 2014-08-20 22:53:44 UTC
Synar Earthoof wrote:
So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable. That's essentially the short of why you went after Somer. Since it doesn't look like you could get financial logs to prove a kick back.


Essentialy:
I buy plex from EvE site normally. I prefer to use Markee, and then I just dump it on market for about 15% above market average. Thus increasing my potential isk markup because someone is always dumb enough to buy without looking.

Because someone just payed me 15% more isk than a plex was worth at the time, I should in essence now be banned for having sold that isk on the market at a substantial mark up. That isk is then funneled into either manufacturing new ships, or used to be into blink so I could just blink on random stuff and then collect the isk payouts from them.



Cause in this case, god forbid I want to use any of the lottery sites as the logic instated puts me clearly in the wrong because I sell my plex's at a mark up, and then use the isk to gamble my day away at work when i can't play EvE.

*waits to get slapped in cuffs*


Hodor!!

The Tears Must Flow
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#254 - 2014-08-20 22:54:48 UTC
Synar Earthoof wrote:
So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable.

No, but nice strawman.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#255 - 2014-08-20 22:55:52 UTC
Dutow Sa wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dutow Sa wrote:
To me, it's very clear from that document

Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But remember also that this was in an discussion with the VP of Sales, who may not even play the game at all. And again, he explicitly stated the Blink would offer no extra ISK for buying through the link - a lie.


Who was asked to forward it to the legal department, and reply with a written confirmation after that.

Any lawyer can figure out, that the 'for buying through the link' means exactly that part, and not the entire process.


I don't think "see they were only trying to pull the wool over CCP's head" is a good defense

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Garai Nolen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#256 - 2014-08-20 22:59:14 UTC
Synar Earthoof wrote:
So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable. That's essentially the short of why you went after Somer. Since it doesn't look like you could get financial logs to prove a kick back.


This is what we might call "oversimplification". As usual, oversimplification tends to obfuscate the actual problem. In your case you've completely missed everything that made it RMT.

Synar Earthoof wrote:
Essentialy:
I buy plex from EvE site normally. I prefer to use Markee, and then I just dump it on market for about 15% above market average. Thus increasing my potential isk markup because someone is always dumb enough to buy without looking.


Yep, that's fine."Dumb Person" did NOT exchange $ for ISK, nor did YOU receive $ in exchange for ISK. Markee got $, you got PLEX. You took PLEX and sold it for ISK. Dumb Person got PLEX in exchange for ISK. There is no connection of $ and ISK anywhere between Dumb Person and you. That is not at all what Somer was proposing.

What Somer was proposing connected $ and ISK between them and the EVE player, by trying to obfuscate some steps through Markee (and other shenanigans). The exact details of how this happened are important and you can't just simplify them out of the picture to try and make your point. The exact details are also extremely well explained elsewhere, over and over, so I'm not doing it again here just for you.
CCP Falcon
#257 - 2014-08-20 22:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Okay... so, lets get this started!

Some answers...

SomeDudeInLocal wrote:
Are users who made use of the recent service also subject to punishment regarding the incident?

In particular, anyone that may have used the service in faith of Somer having the now invalid Approval from CCP?


Absolutely not.

Frantico wrote:
I get why he got banned. BUT with banning him you also banned almost 30% of all the Unique ships in eve alliance turney ships of old and other ships that just dont exist anywhere else its alot of history that has been in 1 persons assets. for a game that is built around its rich history.

so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.

whatever you choose to do CCP dont ruin the eve History by removing these ships from the game


We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value.

Two step wrote:
Are you concerned that banning Somer might lock up ISK/assets that could otherwise be used to repay players?


Not in the slightest.

Alli Ginthur wrote:
The whole E1 debacle ended with a anonymous quiet ban. This should have happened here also. But what's done is done.


The Erotica 1 case was based around harassment, and nothing was released to protect those who were harassed. Please don't rumor monger.

Anya Klibor wrote:
Brahan Seer wrote:
Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.


You are all types of dumb.


Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb.

Riela Tanal wrote:
I do not see this in your FAQ. Falcon, does this have any impact on the prizes that SOMER Blink donated for Theomachy?


In what respect?

If they have already been paid out, and you're worried they'll be confiscated, no. We're not going to reprimand members of the community for using their services.

If they are still to be paid out, and are on any of the affected accounts, this is an issue you'll have to take up with SOMER Blink.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Again, if you feel that TMC is doing RMT, report them. security@ccpgames.com

Just don't get mad and all "grrrr ccp is goons" when nothing happens, because you'd be refusing to acknowledge the significantly more likely possibility that you're simply wrong about it.


This.

Deka Ekato wrote:
CCP,

- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT?


As I said in the original statement, we're not discussing this.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Geenemen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#258 - 2014-08-20 23:01:54 UTC
Synar Earthoof wrote:
So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable.


You don't understand the concept of what's going on here, so let me give you an explanation as if you were five.

CCP likes money. They like money because money makes them stay in business. One of the ways they make money is through the sale, with real dollars, of an in game item called a PLEX.

CCP also wants to make sure people know about their really awesome game, so they make offers to big websites that have a lot of traffic. "Hey," they say. "If you let us advertise our game on your website, we will pay you for every time we make a sale."

This is great for websites like Twitch TV, or maybe even penny arcade. They have no dealings with EVE Online except in that they generate revenue.

Some enterprising people, however, thought to themselves that if they made a website, they could make money by dealing in plexes and ISK. They decide that they want to make people come to their website that gambles using the in game currency by offering to buy this in game item with real money, THROUGH THEIR ADVERTISEMENT. As if that wasn't bad enough, the person said "Oh, and by the way, this is totally legit, CCP says it's okay and official!" When he has blatantly lied. CCP has stated that this is *not* true.

CCP doesn't mind giving you money to advertise, but that's what the program was. Advertisement. Not a way to cycle money.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#259 - 2014-08-20 23:02:18 UTC
I find it extraordinarily amazing that there's so many threads, blogs and official posts about this, and still some people seem to be unable to comprehend what Somer did wrong. How do you even get your underwear on in the morning? All by yourselves? It's a genuine mystery.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#260 - 2014-08-20 23:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
CCP Falcon wrote:

If they are still to be paid out, and are on any of the affected accounts, this is an issue you'll have to take up with SOMER Blink.


Who through your actions* can't really do anything about it. So you might as well say "your stuffed" rather than dance around the point.



* Which I'm not presuming to judge as none the least I really don't know enough about it.