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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Bookmarks and Bookmark Copying

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Udonor
Doomheim
#61 - 2014-08-10 11:36:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Hmmm...bookmarks never used....

if EVE kept track of what was being bookmarked

Idea lots of BMs could be tagged for automatic deletion
... if the BM was placed on object (right click menu) Idea

rather than dropped by button in nearby space (if someone wants to keep placing decaying objects there).




wreck locations after 2 hours 10 minutes

WH signature and anomaly locations after what 5 days max?

WH connection locations after 20 or 30 hours depending on type

ice anomalies roids after DT (or ice exhaustion if you want to burn lots of constellation node CPU)

heh removal of anchorable cans etc might as well trigger removal of BMs
Alundil
Rolled Out
#62 - 2014-08-10 20:15:17 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
I would really just love BM's to come with an expiry date/time. I am so lazy at deleting the old chain BM's.

You aren't the only one 8)


I deleted some yesterday from late July...

I'm right behind you
Elyas Crux
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-08-11 07:22:06 UTC
+1 Any changes that make bookmarks more usable are needed.
Badda Benjaminsen
Heimbrent
#64 - 2014-08-11 14:54:32 UTC
Why not just add another bookmark category right above "Corp Bookmarks" called "Alliance Bookmarks" Question This is just teasing.

And if u do, don't merge the 2 categories. Give us the ability to still choose what to share.
Badda Benjaminsen
Heimbrent
#65 - 2014-08-11 14:59:32 UTC
Udonor wrote:

Idea lots of BMs could be tagged for automatic deletion
... if the BM was placed on object (right click menu) Idea


No because previous wrecks, whs, site bms etc can be useful.
Chuck Dexter
Full Contact
BLACKFLAG.
#66 - 2014-08-12 18:55:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Chuck Dexter
Hi, great that you are working on the bm's. ;)

I dont know if anyone wrote it already:

1. [One thing that could be more comfortable is: if you are the idiot who had to make 3 BMs during one warp, for example between a Gate and a planet for you fleet - as u are sitting in a fast Warping ship, it would be great and simple to increase the number, so that every spot got a unique and logic name.

The word "spot in XY-123 System" is very bad, because if you do 3 BM in maybe 5 seconds you dont know immediatly which BM is which spot in the right-click-menue. But this is very important, especially if you are in hurry and in Communication with your fleet and do Corporation BM's. So you can command: "take spot 3" if it would be named with "spot in System XY-123_3" for example.

Maybe you can Make Bookmark-Folders where BM's automatically saved in and get the same Folder- Name with a Number. Requirement is, that you preselect this Folder before you execute a first bookmark.
For Example: Folder Name "Save Spot" if this is preselect every bookmark will named with Save Spot_1, Save Spot_2, etc...

Today you often need a bunch of Bookmarks in really short time, maybe your running away from a outnumbered fight or combat probes are in space. In stressy situations it could be much easier.


2. Really nice would be a BM "Broadcast-Function" in Fleet-History window. Maybe you want to get your fleet out of a fight cause your oponent is going to loose too much ISK and you dont want to be an as....le killing all of there stuff....ehhh... Ok, it would be great if someone (maybe with a special role) Squad commander, Wing COmmander, FC or scout...whoever could broadcast a warp out Save-Spot or a BM for a meeting point that you can atomatically warp to with rightclick?
Ok, some things are too comfortable, but the general Thought of broadcasting BM's for special use, could be interesting?


That was only an initial Flash brainstorming from me...if it is all crap...than forget it. ;)
Montgomery Black
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2014-08-13 09:08:10 UTC
Id like the ability to select multiple corp bookmarks and right click -> copy to cargohold.

the current copy and drag from corp bookmarks to personal BM folder and then move to cargohold is a pain... especially when u can only move to your cargohold 5 at a time.

WH Merc Services in AU TZ. Citadel defense / offense. More details see forum post - Link
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#68 - 2014-08-13 13:18:30 UTC
Hey everyone thanks for the continued feedback. We expect that the bookmark changes will be testable in the next update of SISI, do you can experience them for yourself.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#69 - 2014-08-13 13:47:31 UTC
maybe post about them somewhere other than the secret wormhole pve forum.
Callic Veratar
#70 - 2014-08-13 19:50:44 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
maybe post about them somewhere other than the secret wormhole pve forum.

Like in the devblog that was posted a week ago?
Ikrima
Brain Farmers Inc
#71 - 2014-08-14 12:54:58 UTC
The known unknowns: Please tell me that is a Donald Rumsfeld reference. i love it than a company in iceland is so attuned to recent US history.

This feedback presumes that things in space are in orbit of something and that ccp will one day make planets orbit expressing the change that occurs naturally in every solar system. This concept is a known unknown.

BOOKMARK FEEDBACK:

Bookmarks should be relative.

relative to the sun, relative to a planet etc...

Everything in space is in some orbit or some other object with a gravitational pull.

Moons orbit planet, planets orbit suns, suns orbit galaxies....

You have the pocos orbiting planets which is a nice and welcome effect. (Buy that dev an Oktu Toktu on me.)

IT WOULD BE NICE TO BE ABLE TO INDICATE WHEN SAVING A BOOKMARK WHETHER THE BOOKMARK IS RELATIVE TO THE SUN OR PLANET or some other object (moon).

Why does this matter?

When you build in the functionality of planets actually orbiting a boomark could change over time. A bookmark made on the outter most belt would be on grid but over the course of time would become off grid and visa versa.

This would provide an opportunity for the long term player to balance with the old school players who benefitted from an exploit to create uber deep offgrid safespots.

In some systems it is not possible to get out of scan range because making an uber deep safe is not possible (system doesnt have missions sites to save etc...).

Others will want to have their safespots stationary ie relative to a planet, moon, startgate whatever.

There should be a balance for the young player who wishes to create and save a deep safespot with the vet player who still benefits from an old exploit that allowed them to create uber deep safespots.



GeeShizzle MacCloud
#72 - 2014-08-14 17:54:02 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
just had a gander at the new bookmark (un)restrictions, its nice that its had a 100% increase in copys per time but i feel its approaching the problem from the wrong angle.

small groups of bookmarks are no bother making by shift clicking a few times and shift dragging into a couple of new containers, and the 5 copies per time lift to 10 copies per time is awesome, but still, for small bunches its not exactly much effort at all.

when you're making multiple sets of bookmarks for many people eg each corp in your wormhole alliance needs the latest set of bookmarks or you need to dump a ton of bookmarks you currenlty have from your people and places into "cold storage" even the 10 bookmarks per time is awkward.

Yes, its 'less' awkward than it is now but a metaphor for the problem is like finally scaling the first wall in an assault course and being happy, only to find another higher wall in front of you, with a bit more of a run up.

>> Make bookmark copying an industry job << , a slight isk sink but largely a hands off approach that takes time to do. not only will it reduce the minute to minute load for the server, by people not doing it actively, but also be able to make multiple runs of a bunch of bookmarks from 1 can into several.
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2014-08-14 18:02:06 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:

>> Make bookmark copying an industry job <<

Dude. Seriously? God no. I hope you're just trolling.

That sounds terrible for any wormhole alliance and a good way to screw up all kinds of W-Space joint ops.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#74 - 2014-08-14 20:27:34 UTC
Klarion Sythis wrote:
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:

>> Make bookmark copying an industry job <<

Dude. Seriously? God no. I hope you're just trolling.

That sounds terrible for any wormhole alliance and a good way to screw up all kinds of W-Space joint ops.


i mean as an additional to what we have already. For large sets and sets you want to create multiple copies of, not a replacement.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#75 - 2014-08-14 23:47:56 UTC
Ikrima wrote:
The known unknowns: Please tell me that is a Donald Rumsfeld reference. i love it than a company in iceland is so attuned to recent US history.


It most definitely is. Big smile

By the way, the changes to bookmark copying are on sisi now so feel free to give them a try and let us know how they feel. We'll also be doing a mass test next week where we will have everyone do a lot of simultaneous bookmark operations to make sure the server doesn't mind too much.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#76 - 2014-08-14 23:54:47 UTC
Any progress on getting BM's that we can set the delete time on? Would clean up a lot of space in the DBBig smile

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2014-08-15 04:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
I make most of my eve income from bookmarks, so have a bit of a love-hate relationship with this part of the game.

Things I'd like to see changed include:
  • The ability to store more bookmarks, even in less readily accessible (and less demanding of server / bandwidth resources) locations that the PnP folder system that we mostly use nowadays. I run multiple alts to keep track of the various collections I build and sell. I regularly use the storage-limit workaround to allow them to hold tens of thousands but it's still a bit of a PITA.
  • More than five-at-a-time copying. Five at a time is relatively easy to keep a visual track of when copying large numbers of bookmarks but it makes for a very tedious pedantic activity when you need to do so accurately.
  • Somehow streamline copying / uploading times. I tend to set upload bookmark jobs for when I am heading to bed, so the necessary hours can happen when I am AFK.
  • Able to sort bookmark vouchers in a similar way to being able to sort bookmarks installed in the PnP folders.
  • Able to search bookmarks installed in the PnP folders.
  • Able to apply tags to bookmarks, like I can for contacts and (indirectly) my overview, to provide another way of minimising the number of bookmarks showing when you're operating. So, for example, when we're on a hostile territory roam I can select my perches tag ... and not have to see the safespots, JBs, POSes etc until I decide to change. This has potential to reduce server load during jumps and ops ... jumps (gates and bridges) being where I notice bookmark-induced-lag the most.
  • Able to set an expiry (self-destruct) time on a bookmark. I don't know about others but my w-space collections tend to bloat over time, with long-expired locations, and my corp collections similarly puff-out with useless accumulations. If I could choose to set a K162 bookmark to expire in, say, 36-hours I'm going to be a tidier and less server intensive person.
  • Able to setup a bookmark view where you can see comments.
  • Other sharing options for bookmarks. Alliance-wide would remove a lot of bookmark duplication amongst the corps that makeup the larger alliances. Similarly I'd love to be able to setup other buddy sharing options so that, for example, I could share a particular bookmark or set of bookmarks with a buddy across the cosmos.


I guess those are a lot of asks, and they're not at all w-space specific, but I do spend a lot of time dealing with bookmarks and would very much like a little loving to be applied to them.

Having said that I will now read above, prolly to discover others have already said all the same things ... or already disagreed vehemently with them :-)

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#78 - 2014-08-15 15:06:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ikrima wrote:
The known unknowns: Please tell me that is a Donald Rumsfeld reference. i love it than a company in iceland is so attuned to recent US history.


It most definitely is. Big smile

By the way, the changes to bookmark copying are on sisi now so feel free to give them a try and let us know how they feel. We'll also be doing a mass test next week where we will have everyone do a lot of simultaneous bookmark operations to make sure the server doesn't mind too much.



Am I the only one who read the first quote and thought of Austrian Economics, more specifically Kirzner's explanation of rational and sheer ignorance?
The Hessian
Hessian Holding
#79 - 2014-08-16 07:06:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We expect that the bookmark changes will be testable in the next update of SISI, do you can experience them for yourself.


So .. it would be helpful if you could acutally tell us what you changed instead of us guessing.


Things I found out (on 16.Aug.):

Copy from Locations to Cargo:
Smile- you can copy 10 BMs in one scoop instead of 5.
Smile- The copying from Locations to cargo seemed instantanious (but obviously SISI cluster is not cramped).

Drag from Cargo to Locations:
Big smile- quite fast, but not instant. Draged 888 BMs, took less than a minute .. maybe 45 seconds (takes up to 30 Minutes on Tranq currently).

Copy from Personal Locations to Corp Locations and back (no limit in numbers / scoop):
Smile- Instant even for large amounts of BM (copied 500, less than a second). But I guess we had this already on Tranq already (not sure).

Other:
What?- Corp BM Limit still 500, no Alliance BMs
Sad- Personal BM Limit still 13.000 BMs (you can "hold" more by dragging them from cargo to Locations but once you reach 13k you "add location" new ones or drag-in new ones from Corp Locations).

Bugs?:
Oops- You can not copy/drag from Corp Locations to Cargo if you try to copy/drag less then 10 BMs (nothing happens) but if you try to copy/drag more than 10 BMs from Corp Locations to cargo you get the error message that you can't copy more than 10 at a time.
Vipexx Venim
Death By Design
#80 - 2014-08-16 10:08:15 UTC
Dawnel wrote:
Radial menus for bookmarks for faster warping
Bookmarks in overview
Subfolders

I don't care about the radial menu, but OHGODYES!

I know this is the WH subforums, but I'm dreaming of being able to satisfy my ocd by sorting BMs into Region » Constallation » Solar System.

Having the option of them showing up in the overview would be convenient.

Also, subfolders. And did I mention subfolders?


Vip.