Ships & Modules

The T1 hulls the Logis are based off of are basically all sub par...

Lets look at the Exequor.... a "cargo cruiser"... wtf? What kind of lame ass bonus is this?... use any Tier 1 industrial- cheaper, more cargo space, less training.

Clearly, its only potentially viable role is in the RR area, the only thing I can figure the cargo bonus is good for is holding more cap booster charges to power the reppers.
Given its PG and cap limitations, its not going to get any good rep range and amount and a large enough cap booster to keep it all going.
Essentially it only has 1 useful bonus

Osprey: is it a mining cruiser, or a RR boat? it can't do both at once, any use you make of it is going to ignore one of its bonuses, essentially it is a one bonus ship.

The Scythe is even more useless... tracking links are nice, on a Schimi where they have a 10% bonus (not 3.5%), in addition to its primary role as RR. Standalone, its a pretty crappy role, and we again have a bonus for a completely different role, a mining vessel.

Augoror - I actually see this as the best conceived of this dismal class of vessels. If its role is to be battlefield support for other ships, then the armor HP bonus will help its survivability.

Not that that this grouping of ships is all useless, I can conceive of 3 T1 "Logi-like" ships filling the role of Logis (I was thinking for lulz what an all T1 non shiny VG incursion fleet would look like)
1 Augor with 4x cap trans in the highs, sending 2 cap transfers to each of 2 Exequors. The exequors send 1 back, making the Aug's cap stable. The exequors have net input of >1 cap transfer to power their RRs.
With 3 logi like ships, you get some sustained RR (though probably not enough to keep 3 large reps stable on the exeqs (which are going to be hard pressed to fit them, I imagine lots of RCUs and PG rigs).
Maybe increase it to 2 Augs, 2 Exequors - and your fleet can do NCOs and such.

This would also work with Ospreys, but then one is mixing shield and armor tanks.

I propose we add a new class of cruiser, mining cruisers, give the a mining and cargo bonus, and then leave the Scythe, Osprey, Exequor, Augoror as logi like vessels.

Get rid of the Ospreys mining bonus, and give it a suitable bonus, something like: -5% to capacitor recharge time, 10% shield HP, -10% eneryg transfer cost.
Ditto on the Exequor and Scythe.

Perhaps just leave the same class of bonuses as the T2 versions get with worse numbers.

ie:

Exequoror- New
12.5% bonus to capacitor need of remote armor repair system per level.
5% bonus to tracking links per level
Role Bonus: 500% bonus to range of remote armor repair systems and Tracking Link range.


Scythe- New
5% bonus to tracking links per level.
12.5% bonus to capacitor use of shield transporters per level.
Role Bonus: 500% bonus to range of tracking links and shield transporters..


Osprey- New
10% bonus to capacitor use of shield transporters per level.
12.5% bonus to capacitor need of energy transfer arrays per level.
Role Bonus: 500% bonus to range of shield transporters and energy transfer arrays.

Augoror- New
10% bonus to capacitor need of energy transfer arrays per level.
12.5% bonus to capacitor use of shield transporters per level.
Role Bonus: 500% bonus to range of energy transfer arrays and shield transporters.

Then add a class of cruisers for each race with a 20% mining laser and 10% cargo capacity bonus per level, as an interim to mining barges.
(Maybe the Gallente one has a 10% to mining laser and mining drone yield per level, take away the vexor mining drone bonus)

In this scheme, like their T2 counterparts, one group is more suited to cap chai

A couple of slots and a bit of extra fitting would be nice. But that goes hand in hand with the much hoped for removal of the Tier System.

Better then that make the Procurer flyable with Industry 4. Lowering the skill requirement to about the same as the Osprey and Scythe.

I don't think these ships should ever get into Vanguards but if they ever release say Group Missions they would be excellent for lower lvl ones allowing new players to both practice with RR and expand on EVE's group PvE.

I know! Why dont we just turn the logi's into better bonused versions of thier t1 progenetors instead! Then there wouldnt be usch a disparity.

Ok serious post:
Why do we need more logi again? I forget and you did not say.

So we should completely overhaul 4 ships and then add 4 more ships (to the t1 cruiser class no less) because you like logistics? Is there some pressing need for a non t2 logi that is not able to be handled by the Aug, Exeq, or Osprey? Also, why would anyone fly a t1 when the t2 version is a pretty short SP jump? I guess the big winners would be nuetral RR when the nerf finally goes through. Losing 10mil/ship because you cant dock and get pwnd is easy..... losing 150mil isnt (as much).



So you would like group PVE that is not end/game. Cool. Do you think adding more logistics ships will hasten the arrival of this content? What if the content, because it is not end game, doesn't really need logistic ships? IE it can be done with local reps and/or RRboats?

Yes but they do not need to add 4 more ships. Changing the Procurer so it is flyable at lower SP will make up for the loss of the Osprey and give the Procurer more use.

Why does anyone fly anything T1 at all by that Logic. The usual reason is price over performance. There performance now is not meeting there price as they are not effective at there job.

As for it's use in Neutral RR T2 will be superior because of amount repped but if they are stupid enough to place them in range of targets where they can be easily tackled then they are better off flying cheap stuff because they are oh so terrible.


Then it won't be near as challenging since RR boats do not have range to allow field mobility and with local tanks it might as well be solo content.

Bottom Line, the T1 RR Ships do not do there Job. Therefor they are very rarely used. I am up for anything that brings more variety into the ships we fly.

Supported

Something like this really should be done. If only to ecourage more people to actually use logistics. In over a year of wars the there have been exactly two occasions on which I've seen a corp or alliance that wasn't a dedicated PVP outfit with logi alts actually field a dedicated RR ship as part of their combat fleet.

It's not even that people don't want to get into flying logistics either, I've heard plenty of people, even ones new to PVP say that they are interested in flying logistics, shame they have to train extremely specialised skills for months to become effective and have nothing to fly in the meantime.

Buff T1 RR cruisers so that more people are able get into logistics as a role, this might help achieve better parity between aggressors and defenders in highsec wars and I don't think there's anyone who dosen't think that is good.

I am posting under an alt.
I normally fly incursions in a Mach or Nightmare in shiny fleet.

I was thinking, just for "***** and giggles" of what it would take to go into an Incursion on the opposite end of the scale, while nothing T2 or faction, at all.

But that is besides the point, the point is that I don't see this class of ship used at all (I think the T1 Ewar frigs are also pretty bad, but thats another post, another time).

Where it would really excel, is small group PvP where you don't neccessarily want to bring along a 200+ million ISK ship, or where you could have a lowish SP pilot act as a logi.

I semi-recently tried to fit one of these to RR someone else in a form of cheap station games (its a 1v1 until your guy starts to lose, then the RR starts), and was quite disappointed by what these ships offered.


+1 to the idea of lowering the requirements of the procurer, and getting rid of the racial "mining" cruisers.
That also solves the problem of the procuror being essentially pointless right now since the retreiver is so close behind it in skill.