Wormholes

Now who is trolling on your alt...

And no.

I'm just astonished at this point.
At the risk of validating your drivel, let me just say that I don't have a neckbeard, I'm not overweight, I'm a single father, and I would love to PVP more often.

You're just strawmanning every statement C4 inhabitants have been posting. You're not taking this seriously at all.
The issue here is whether or not this will cause more or less activity in C4s. It's not about who's feelings get hurt and who wants what out of C4 space. We can all agree that more activity in C4s would be a good thing. That being said, there are different ways to go about creating that activity. The residents of C4 space for the most part are there because it's the only part of wormhole space where a small corp can get by. This change increases the risk without increasing the reward. Nobody's asking for "more isk because more isk." I put the numbers out there. If you want to survive in a C4 with a smaller corp (C5s are all around better for large corps and alliances), then you have to make enough to fuel your POS and replace ships that you lose. I put the math together and laid it out plainly. C4 sites are a mess compared to C3 or C5. If you disagree with my numbers, then feel free to tell me where my mistakes were. Calling me a neckbeard and throwing ridiculous insults out about the kind of person you assume I must be is not really going to help the discussion in any way.

Sorry In advance if my english is bad, I do my best as a french .
Tl.dr: C4 ~20 man corp CEO tell how it is for him to live in a C4, and how the new static will affect it.


My corp currently live in a C4, with C4 static. We are quite new as a group, and except for 2 or 3 "veterans" most people created their account in early 2014.

We are 60 characters, 20 active players. We chose C4/C4, because our goal from the begining was to live in a C5+ at some point, and wanted to see what it would be like to live in a wormhole without direct Kspace connexions.

We are going to leave our C4 soon, because we feel that we are ready as a group to live in a C5, time will tell if we're right.

We want to be a PvP corporation, from the begining we trained people into small fleet pvp. People are slowly getting into T2/T3 cruisers. Our experience of the C4 PvP life have mostly been in T1 BC/T1 logi armor with fleets ranging from 3-15 characters.

In more than two month of living in this C4/C4 we got 1 good fight from a C4 entity. Everything else was ganks, or at two occasions C5+ entity beating us easily with greater numbers and better ships (and far more experience and better organization, but even without that numbers and ships were better). Generally, I'd say that C4/C4 is currently bad for a group that wants to pvp regularly, or have access to PvP without too much trouble. After a month we either invaded people, or went to low/null to get some fights/ganks (some of them were hilarious though, rolling shield paladin anyone?).

As for farming, we chose to put people into armor navy vexors with sentries, along with either an oneiros, or 2-3 augorors/exeqrors. We farm together in groups of 6-10 generally in our static C4, as our Home cannot provide sufficient income for everyone. ISK is around 60M/player/hour, less if you take into account rolling to find a wormhole with enough sites, and the time it takes to scout it and bookmark the warp in for the sites (which is pretty much mandatorry if you don't want to wait 3 hours every sites for the sleepers to get closer than 100KM. Total income of the corp is around 10B/week, including sleeper farming, ore and gas mining, and PI.

We finish a Frontier Barracks and Sleeper information sanctum in approximately 7-8 minutes, a frontier command post in 8-10 minutes (bloody frigates ';..;' ).

Data and relic sites are very bad (reinforcement waves are badly bugged, most dont spawn, and we tried to fail/success a hack, while fighting, before fighting, before killing triggers, after killing first wave... Sometimes it worked, but not predicably. Data cans are pretty useless, Relic cans can be worth something, but the fact that they are spread across 150KM make the hacking process quite long. ISK wise, for a group we didnt find a way to make it really useful to run these sites, when we can roll and try to find a hole with 8+ barracks and sanctum.

Most efficient ways to make isk in C4s seems to be solo in a marauder or in small groups of 2-3-4 in RR domis/tengus/ishtars, but this is only suitable to fairly skilled players, and only in small groups. And even then, if you lose such a ship/fleet, it take quite a bit of farming to reimburse its value.

For the most active players, we make quite a bit of money, but its hard to replace lost ships, especially for newer players or players who only play 3-4 evening a week, or for players dependant on plex to keep their account subscribed, and when you take fuel costs into account.

Now, about that new static. It will surely make C4s better for PvP groups. Bigger more diverse chains will be way better than what we have now. But I think only a few C4s will be able to sustain groups of our size. I may be wrong about our capacity to live in a C5, but right now I'm pretty confident about it, and I dont see any reason for us to stay in a C4 in these conditions.

Our C4/C4/C2 will be the most well connected wormhole of all, with 2 statics in each of our statics, and that is awesome. But the income is simply not enough to sustain a decently sized pvp group comfortably, especially if the characters are pretty young, and cannot farm sites alone.

This change clearly benefit every wormhole resident, except C4 inhabitants, who are from my 2-3 month experience of constant living in C4 mostly very small groups of players here to make money with PVE, having their own system, and not very fond of PvP. I'm not sure if the general C4 activity (and especially residency) will grow with this change, especially if it's riskier to roll, since its harder for small group to escort properly a rolling orca or BS, and as I said earlier, small groups (of well skilled players) are the most efficient group size to live in a C4.

I hope this feedback helps and will add a different perspective on what C4 residency can be. I personally enjoy the change, since it will make our moving out of C4 easier with the new C2 static, and may provide more pvp opportunities while we wait to find our new home.

As stated in few posts above, its added risk for no value aside from very rare possibility of running into someone to shoot them or be shot at.

But if you get, which I hope wont happen, C4 leading to C4 and C4, youll need at least 3 characters to guard all possible wormholes. And dont give me the collapse verge hole stuffz, once we did and my buddy lost a paladin to fleet that jumped the VoC wormhole.

This does not create content, only puts more stress on small groups. More and better designed sites, better spawn rate and everythin would go long way of improving population in WHs. But if you expect newbies to go to C4 just because theres 2 static holes and nothing to gain isk from, oh lol. What a joke.

nope, thats part of the game. But since your post is just hate, nothing constructive, why bother? Have a good time, bimbo.

Last time I complained that much when a vargur didn't meet our killboard due to "socket was closed" for the wh system where we managed to catch him.
Again, my corpies and me can find insta frig pvp with my fw friends, can run twice more isk/hr in safe lolsec within lvl5 agents or lvl4 npc null agents.With absolutely no scanning/logistic issues/other wh routine. All devblog changes forces small corps to blob or leave w-space thanks to increasing amounts of routine.
And yeah, it'd be awesome to see a frig blob engaging a 100mn bonused t3 carebear fleet in c3/c4. Meh

Wanna merge to appease nullbears? :D

That would be too sweet for both of us.
Anyway pi and pos'es for booster production still remain in wh so it's too early to unsub and ragequit.

Just moved into a c4/c4 - and it looks like I might be moving out here. As a small corp of just a few friends it will be a lot more work to watch all these holes while farming in our static, furthermore it will increase the traffic to our hole from the c5/c6 citizens we were trying to avoid. This change just hurts the little people which I feel a lot of the c4 corps are. It's not that we're all bears (sure some are) we just want to fight similar sized fleets, and c4's tend to hold smaller corps.

This changed combined with the new frigate swarm wormholes might just wreck wspace for me as I don't want to join a huge corp which seems to be CPP's agenda here..

My experience has been that it works best when you plan to make your isk in your statics rather than at home. Home is rapidly made bare while new statics are eternal. As such the issue is more likely a bad choice of static rather than a bad choice of home. If you want to hunt or farm c5 space, a c5 static is more useful than a c5 home with some other static. I suppose this also is the real problem with capital escalations as they encourage too much looking inward imo rather than taking from your surroundings.