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[Hyperion] Heavy Assault Cruiser tweaks

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1341 - 2014-08-10 18:49:50 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Attack bc's .. should be moved too T2 .. then 4 of the combat bc's can become what attack bc's should be .. kind of like the navy bc's mobility but slightly better but with medium weapons and good tank

That's an interesting idea.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1342 - 2014-08-10 18:50:36 UTC
The Ishtar change means you can no longer outrange medium beams on optimal-bonused ships, which gives the Ishtar a hard counter, if a really specific and specialized one. Legions and/or Zealots with beam lasers will utterly tear them apart.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1343 - 2014-08-10 19:27:36 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Battlecruisers (with the exception of Attack Battlecruiers) and some of the Command Cruisers could use another pass (Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente should get a variant with +50% shield/armor, respectively). All T1 and Faction Battleships need another pass, as well as a few tweaks to T2 Marauders, T2 Blackops and two of the Pirate Battleships (Barghest and Nestor).


pretty much everything needs another pass.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1344 - 2014-08-10 19:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
TrouserDeagle wrote:
pretty much everything needs another pass.

That's a fair point. It would be nice to see new ships introduced that didn't immediately need a rebalance, ie: Barghest, Nestor.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Starrakatt
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#1345 - 2014-08-10 21:20:17 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:

Also 8/4/7 tempest could be nice, light shield tank for maximum gank power or super heavy armor tank you have to slog through for the kill
It would NOT. Almost nobody shield tank a Tempest right now because it's not very good, 4 Mids would see it disappear completely. As for armor tanking it, the 5 Mids are what makes gives the Tempest it's 'versatlity' trademark, even if the ship itself is not very good compared to most others.

I would much prefer see a High slot go for a new Low, but again it hurts the 'versatility' thing about the ship.

One of the bonus needs to be changed, that's all. Dual DPS bonused looks nice when you see it, one would think: Hey! TWO dps bonuses, must make it a superior dps ship, right? It doesn't. Its no better dps wise than most BS and worse than many.

I think the only way to make the Tempest better as a supposedly 'DPS' ship is reworking the ROF to 7.5%, or make one 10% and turn the other in a Tracking or Falloff bonus.

Or alternatively, make the regular Tempest 7.5% ROF/5% Damage and the Fleet Tempest in a bigger FIS with a 10% ROF and 7.5% Tracking.

Join Celtic Anarchy!

Sneaky bastard.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1346 - 2014-08-10 21:28:50 UTC
Starrakatt wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:

Also 8/4/7 tempest could be nice, light shield tank for maximum gank power or super heavy armor tank you have to slog through for the kill
It would NOT. Almost nobody shield tank a Tempest right now because it's not very good, 4 Mids would see it disappear completely. As for armor tanking it, the 5 Mids are what makes gives the Tempest it's 'versatlity' trademark, even if the ship itself is not very good compared to most others.

I would much prefer see a High slot go for a new Low, but again it hurts the 'versatility' thing about the ship.

One of the bonus needs to be changed, that's all. Dual DPS bonused looks nice when you see it, one would think: Hey! TWO dps bonuses, must make it a superior dps ship, right? It doesn't. Its no better dps wise than most BS and worse than many.

I think the only way to make the Tempest better as a supposedly 'DPS' ship is reworking the ROF to 7.5%, or make one 10% and turn the other in a Tracking or Falloff bonus.

Or alternatively, make the regular Tempest 7.5% ROF/5% Damage and the Fleet Tempest in a bigger FIS with a 10% ROF and 7.5% Tracking.


projectiles are not good enough. so your solution is to buff the tempest
nimon
unlogic for U
#1347 - 2014-08-11 03:44:38 UTC
The Zealot should be updated that ship isnt a real hac like others and need his update now.
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#1348 - 2014-08-11 04:12:02 UTC
On the 8/4/7 Tempest:

I think it's fairly pointless. The point of going armor tempest is having 5 mids for utility. If I wanted massive tank with just the standard amount of midslot utility I'd you know... fly another battleship. The only thing the Tempest has going for it is its versatility and slightly above average mobility.

What would be more useful is if the tempest acquired either:
1. More speed (for the shield tempest to not be crap); OR
2. At least one damage bonus increased to 7.5%; OR
3. One damage bonus increased to 10% and the other changed to tracking (only because a falloff bonus would make the nado redundant); OR
3. An extra turret hardpoint (for a total of 7).



Also the Abaddon is not fine. It's role has been taken over by the Apoc. At least give it a little more cap so merely firing its guns doesn't deplete my cap charges as rapidly as it currently does.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1349 - 2014-08-11 09:45:27 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
On the 8/4/7 Tempest:

I think it's fairly pointless. The point of going armor tempest is having 5 mids for utility. If I wanted massive tank with just the standard amount of midslot utility I'd you know... fly another battleship. The only thing the Tempest has going for it is its versatility and slightly above average mobility.

What would be more useful is if the tempest acquired either:
1. More speed (for the shield tempest to not be crap); OR
2. At least one damage bonus increased to 7.5%; OR
3. One damage bonus increased to 10% and the other changed to tracking (only because a falloff bonus would make the nado redundant); OR
3. An extra turret hardpoint (for a total of 7).



Also the Abaddon is not fine. It's role has been taken over by the Apoc. At least give it a little more cap so merely firing its guns doesn't deplete my cap charges as rapidly as it currently does.



This night I had a dream about a tempest... with 7.5% rof bonus and 15% Neutralizer Strenght bonus.... a ship that would have again a role. And no would not be overpowered since it would still do less damage and less neuting range than a geddon.

Also woudl fit PERFECLTY the lore. What else minmatar would develop to fight specifically the amarr ships?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#1350 - 2014-08-11 15:08:41 UTC
So summery so far:

Tempest - 4 mids = NO. Its DPS /scope is so poor it makes many sad. The worst ship in the game?

Ishtar - eclipses everything, small tweak is insult.

Comments from Dev down to near zero (they may be on hols).
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1351 - 2014-08-11 15:22:18 UTC
The tempest needs too be a bit like a big hurricane .. versatile, mobile and with utility but still able to put out good dps comparative too other attack battleships .. as the Maelstrom is a bit niche with a active tank bonus

.. really the Maelstrom needs a nerf too HP and maybe lose a turret but improve its solo playability it has powerful shield boost after-all just look at the Hyperion changes .. more mobility is needed on it..
the tempest needs too become more competitive in the shield tanking/armour tanking area .. make it the premier projectile boat that matches minmatar philosophy much more than a buffer tanked high Alpha Maelstrom..

a 7-6-6 layout with 6 turrets stronger dps bonuses perhaps a small falloff bonus tempest with higher shield and armour HP than the Maelstrom would make sense.. you could trade off some drone bandwidth maybe down too 50mbit would match better with a falloff bonus anyway .. a mini mach basically

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
RTSAvalanche
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#1352 - 2014-08-11 15:34:50 UTC
Long live shield tempest!

and lets not forget - the best thing about minmatar is their ability to roll nicely in armor or shield!!

how about we forget about null crap & wh's for once and give a hoot to those that dwell in the solo & small gangs of low-sec!
Malwadas Kadmos
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#1353 - 2014-08-11 16:13:52 UTC
ishtar changes are good but wont be enough, 125mbit drone boats with tracking bonus are just a joke(in small scale pvp) since the release of geckos ... heavy drones going with over 4k m/s and having good enough tracking to hit full speed moving frigates without needing web/scram/target painting is pretty strong.
Heinrich Erquilenne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1354 - 2014-08-11 16:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Erquilenne
Ishtars aren't the issue, sentry drones are. They're battleship class weapons and can track anything including small frigates or fast cruisers. It makes any ship carrying them the perfect jack of all trades, works in every situation, etc. It should be something like a siege weapon. If sentries get their tracking nuked then Ishtars are perfectly fine and balanced.
cool4nd
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1355 - 2014-08-11 16:20:48 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?



How about 7/5/7 with 7 guns?
Khellan Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1356 - 2014-08-11 17:00:39 UTC
These are great changes, although I still think that heavy drones are a battleship weapon, and that no cruiser should have access to a full set of battleship grade weapons, but I digress slightly. Drones are, after all, in a funky category of their own.

Regardless, I am much more interested in the proposed change to the tempest. I honestly think that it needs another turret as well. So, 7 turrets, 8 hi slots, 4 mids, and 7 lows. That would be awesome.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1357 - 2014-08-11 17:13:22 UTC
cool4nd wrote:
How about 7/5/7 with 7 guns?

How about separate threads for Battlecruiser and Battleship passes?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1358 - 2014-08-11 17:17:13 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Battlecruisers (with the exception of Attack Battlecruiers) and some of the Command Cruisers could use another pass (Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente should get a variant with +50% shield/armor, respectively). All T1 and Faction Battleships need another pass, as well as a few tweaks to T2 Marauders, T2 Blackops and two of the Pirate Battleships (Barghest and Nestor).


pretty much everything needs another pass.

This obsessive need to deal with rebalances in a class-by-class basis is weird and doesn't really help the game. Individual ships that need nerfs or buffs need to be identified, and the correct changes should be applied with every content / rebalance patch.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1359 - 2014-08-11 17:19:17 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
This obsessive need to deal with rebalances in a class-by-class basis is weird and doesn't really help the game. Individual ships that need nerfs or buffs need to be identified, and the correct changes should be applied with every content / rebalance patch.

Hey, don't look at me...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1360 - 2014-08-11 17:23:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
This obsessive need to deal with rebalances in a class-by-class basis is weird and doesn't really help the game. Individual ships that need nerfs or buffs need to be identified, and the correct changes should be applied with every content / rebalance patch.

Hey, don't look at me...

I'm not, I just felt it needed to be said since we're on the subject. Too many beautiful ships go too long being "bad" simply because they don't get their "turn" for absolutely forever.

Doesn't the rifter need help? I believe the rifter needs help and has needed it for a very long time now. It could have gotten that help several times now but its waiting its "turn".

How does that help the game to have turns at rebalances?