Player Features and Ideas Discussion

okay okay okay okay, really. Lets be realistic here.

you can nerf the ishtar, but then what? the next most powerful ship will be the "OMG IT'S SO OP PLS NERF" ship, and then the next, and the next, etc etc. How about we start focusing on the problems at hand here-

Some ships are just too WEAK. stop always saying that some ships are just too strong. Lets look at what they did to heavy missiles. There is literally no use to heavy missiles now. sure you get range but the DPS is such crap, it doesnt even matter. Autocannons suck, honestly, on any ship that doesnt have some pretty big falloff bonuses.... which is just a load of crap. Why have a weapons system that needs a buff to a particular aspect to even be useful?

at the same time, sentries are in fact a bit powerful. But, they're considered battleship grade. Okay, yes, now we technically have a cruiser with battleship grade weapons. Cry some more, will you? heavy drones are pretty easily taken care of under usual circumstances (however, with the HP buff, they are a bit resilient. Maybe scale back on the HP a little, CCP). As for sentries, going back to what an earlier poster said- make them only usable if you stay within 5KM of them. It needs to be something this close. basically the idea is to make it so if you use sentries- you're committed to using sentries. No extra utilities, no fancy this or that. Just sentries- unless you want to have two sentries and some other drones, which would be a bit awkward. Lower the drone bay to 150m3s. this way the ishtar can fit either a full flight of heavies plus a full flight of lights, or a full flight of sentries and a full flight of lights. This again keeps it committed to its position. you can FURTHER cement this aspect by removing the turret slots on the ship. I personally want to have dedicated drone boats, but, I realize how unbalanced they can be. So, take away its ability to fit turrets, and reduce the high slots. Make it like a mini-carrier. Drones and only drones- but able to use drones really well.

alternatively, if you are really upset about ishtar having the "battleship buster" role, which it was designed for, make it have buffs to only light and medium drones. People have said this so many times, and, it could work- but not at where medium drones are right now. Medium drones need buffs to be viable (hmm, sounds like a problem plaguing a lot of weapon systems.....). Theyre still too slow and easy to kill to be really worth it. However- if you were to increase their durability and velocity a bit, and increase the damage just a little so a full flight would land you roughly 450-500DPS give or take- that would make them worth it. I know a lot of people will jump on the THAT MAKES THEM SO OP train, but, when you think about it- if you (as I previously mentioned) took off the ability to fit other forms of weaponry, it suddenly becomes actually balanced. Drones may be strong- but once theyre gone, so is your DPS. Keeping the ishtar at only two high slots with no turrets/launchers makes sure it can't have ungodly strong utility value, and makes sure that it focuses on drone DPS.


OFFICIAL PROPOSALS:
1. Nerf sentries as a deploy and leave drone- make sure you have to commit to them

2. Make the ishtar commit to its role as a drone boat and remove other weapons systems. Lower high slots to two, and take away turret hardpoints. Reduce drone bay to 150- locking it in to the role it chooses.

3. in the case that it stays a sentry/heavy boat- change the HP buff to drones to only heavy/med/light. This will make it still viable for PvE but make it so that PvP pilots have to think about what theyre going to fit before flying into battle.


4. change the role of the ishtar to be a smaller ship juggernaut.

Apply Buffs as follows:

Gallente Cruiser
15% Damage increase for Light Drones
10% increase in HP, tracking speed for light drones

Using Stitch Kaneland's calculation of hob 2s having 100 dps, with three t2 DDAs, it would have rougly 292 DPS. This isnt game-breakingly high, if drones are going to be its only real source of offense. Assault frigates/destroyers easily get much higher DPS than this.

HAC
15% Damage increase for medium drones
10% increase in HP, Tracking, Velocity

Again, using Stitch's calculations (158DPS for hammer IIs), plus 3 DDAs, You would end up with ~461 DPS. This falls in line with other HACs for DPS. While the range is higher, the fact remains that if you destroy the drones, you incapacitate it. With this setup, each drone does around 92 DPS. that means take out one drone and its already down to 369 DPS. Take out two and you're at 277. If you were really concerned about this still being too OP, you could decrease the drone bay to 75 m3s, meaning at most an ishtar could have 7 medium drones. Or a flight of mediums and a flight of lights. I don't think it would be necessary to drop i below 100 m3s, personally, but this is just an idea.

Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

as standard for HACs.

If you'll notice this removes the drone range buff. Honestly, I don't think that's a huge problem. With only two high slots, and no turrets, you're pretty limited on what would be useful. Most people will opt for a DLA- which will give their drones more range. This will decrease utility though. The other option is something like two neuts- however this would enforce closer, more brawly type combat. This poses a risk for the ishtar as its only real DPS comes from the drones- so if theyre gone, ishtar is toast.



In all honestly I think that the second approach is the most "balanced", but would create a huge backlash. The first one is more Ishtar-y, and still hits it pretty hard, but makes you have to really commit to your role. If you use sentries- you arent going to be flying around trying to bait people into your sentries. Plus, it would still be a viable PvE boat.

Add the drones - and rage, take the resist profile, its one of the best HACs. If it gets you tackled, its painful.

so? what's your point? I thought pirate ships were SUPPOSED to be the best ships for their size. otherwise there would be literally no reason to use them. To heck with "well it might have a different role." people dont pay several hundred million ISK and train in two races just for a slightly different role. They Do it because its supposed to be a better ship.



That actually makes the problem WORSE. Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the problem here was the stupidly high DPS compared to other HACs, and how it has battleship level DPS on a cruiser. Now, you are planning on making medium drones have near heavy drone DPS? that 1. invalidates heavy drones and 2. keeps it at BS grade DPS.

People are whining about wanting balance, but, then, post solutions that are literally just as unbalanced.

either make it so you have to be right next to your sentries to have them function, change it to a medium drone ship (maybe with slightly higher DPS even than I proposed, like 17.5% if you're that daring), or leave the damn thing alone. I don't really want it changed, but if you are going to change it- at least make it a balanced change so I dont have to hear 6 months down the line how it is still super OP and have people whining.

wtf

900+ dps out a cruiser with THAT many EHP?

Like the ishtar is now, really.

So, if that was insanity, then the ishtar is still insanity.

Yet CCP gives us this absolutely hilarious smack in the face change that accomplishes literally nothing.

You realize they don't read feedback after page five or so, right? It's to check for typos and obvious errors, then go off and do whatever then maybe post an update with tweaks.

The last one I recall them actually taking feedback from was the freighter thread, and that was less taking feedback than doing exactly what mynnna told them to do.

Your entire post is absolute drivel.

"It was designed as a battle ship buster, so it's balanced!" CUZ LOL

That does not abrogate the need to continue working towards it.

"perfect" balance is pointless besides, perfect balance is chess or checkers.

What I am talking about is viability. Equally viable does not mean equal in all respects, just that you don't have one obvious choice towering over all others.

One must always take care that cynicism does not blind one to a legitimate complaint. Yes, I also tire of endless whining (I used to play WoW after all), but in this instance I feel the complaints regarding sentry drones are well founded.

Personally, I think sentries are an acceptable weapon system.

For a battleship.

They really become broken when used on cruiser and carrier ship classes, however. That's the issue I have with them. On the part of the carrier, they just flat out should not be permitted.

However on the Ishtar it's basically been designed around having them, even if that did turn out to be overpowered. Reducing it's bandwidth would be the ideal situation here, imo. That would bring it more in line with the other HACs.