Wormholes

anything past 5 minutes wont make a difference. if you are rage rolling and hunting farmers why on earth would you wait even 1minute on the hole? you rage roll, fleet warp your entire fleet including caps on to the hole and you have Invulnerability for however long this 'timer' is set. what you are suggesting is 1 to 4 hours of Invulnerability from the guys on the other side. and once you do jump your scouts through its a moot point anyways and the guys on the other side still needs to scan down and form up / send out pings for the new sig so you are STILL safe.

looking at the suggestions it looks almost like the pvp guys are more risk averse than the farmers hahaha!

actually with a zero min timer the pvp guys already have a HUGE advantage as if they fleet warp with caps they can close the hole before the guys on the other side have even SCANNED DOWN THE SIG.

holy risk averse pvp batman. no wonder they want to implement the mass based rolling thingy. they just gave 100% safe pvp to the people that need it the least.

never knew you guys were such cowards hahaha!

I´m on the same page -
for the vigilant lower class resident this isn´t gonna change much - since form C1-C3 most rats don´t scramble and even with the added the time a scout might have to find you - you are warped out before he´s next to you.

But for the higher class holes this changes everthing - before when someone has rolled into you they had a time frame from about 0-5 minutes given the time which remained on the siege cycles to find and tackle you which meant often they had to engage you (hero tackle) before their whole fleet was ready to go because some of them were still inside of the warp to the hole ... so you had as the attackee a slim chance of killing the hero tackle of end be on your way ... now what´s gonna happen is this - the whole enemy fleet will be sitting at null from the wh before their scouts jump through - they will again have 0-5 Minutes to find you but will jump you not with a single heavy interdictor waiting for reinforcments but with their whole fleet ....
even with this weakend proposal of the old one - the favour is put heavily on the attackers side, because they are prepared for this, their fleet is ... whereas the defender is not and can´t be ... they in most cases won´t even be able to react properly because what they lack is intel ... they only saw the hole a few moments before a fleet is on the way to them ... they can´t know what is still waiting for them ... so to be able to make an judgment either to reship regroup and figth or the withdraw they need to scan the wh ... jump a scout through and see fort hemselves ...
a activity which is in the range of the time a cap needs to warp to a hole ... so in my opinion the current state is by far better equalized - with a slight favour to the attackers they still pretty much keep their element of suprise .... because the heavy hitters weren´t already in the first wave what will happen when this cahnge goes live ... so after you have your intel you can return to actually safe somehting and not to take revenge for your, at this point, already dead friends ...

edit some spelling mistakes

I'm pretty sure you misunderstand the change as proposed as it relates to hole rolling (ie - this really doesn't relate to hole rolling). I'm equally certain that you misunderstand the change as proposed as it relates to PvP (ie - this really doesn't relate to PvP directly).
Furthermore - the PvP groups are the ones requesting that the K162 spawns at some point, regardless of whether or not someone jumps that hole. Under the current devblog proposal those K162 spawns don't ever happen if the other side isn't jumped, thereby reducing overall connections. We've been pretty vocal about ensuring that they spawn somehow. Hardly the "anti-pvp" response you're implying.

Wipe your chin, there's some drool there.

This is still quite bad on its own because it will mean that the effective lifetime of some connections will be far less than it would have been otherwise (think empire connections to 'deadly unknown' that is only jumped through after 8 hours of first being warped to).

wow, I don't think you can misinterpret my post any more if you tried. congrats.

Sounds really good except I think signature detection should require active probes -- not just some solo miner gazing out a dirty porthole.

Well the change would be that Opening would require jumping through them.

If you are not stealth that means they may see you your ship type etc. Minor bit of intelligence.



But a bigger impact would be that as proposed WH systems could be left SAFE from gankers (BOO! HISS!) for mining and sleepers

#1 you don't open your new statics and outbound WH until business absolutely requires

#2 you have no K162 showing and all signatures are account


(ROFLMAO -- usually at least 1 guy in corp with more than 10 members that gets severe virtual claustrophobia if its not open though. They feel compelled to jump out for a couple minutes for no reason but to ensure it will open)

Love most of the WH changes, not to sure of this one.

It just does not make sense at it's core, and I do not think the end result will add so much to gameplay that it justifies making something so illogical.

1) Game-Play / Role-Pay / Logic Bomb
- No wormhole exists with only one opening.
- No end should be the "first" or "primary."
- If a WH adjoins two (or more) places, why is any side artificially barred from discovering the hole before the other?
- How is the magical appearance of the other side to scanners justified in a role-play sense?
- Should not all pilots in EVE be constantly aware of their surroundings, especially in the space they choose to play in. (i.e. presence / lack of other intelligence tools (local) in that space should not be a consideration.)

2) The "Problem"
The Blog mentions that the scan overlay enhanced this problem... This is incorrect.

The scan overlay created the problem. The solution is as artificial as the problem. The scan overlay was a good idea that was (is) overzealous and poorly implemented.


TL;DR - No Bueno on many levels

No, your point was ********. No one in the right mind, and certainly not PvP corps, warps capital ships to a hole that has't been jumped and scouted.
Additionally, as I mentioned, it's the PvP corps that are requesting that the K162 holes spawn. In fact, we'd probably prefer (I know I'd prefer) the existing mechanic of you warp to it and it spawns on the other side. (If Odyssey hadn't happened and screwed with scanning and added the bear protector called the discovery scanner this woudn't even be an issue). That part is fine. We're arguing against CCP's initial bear friendly idea of never spawn a K162 unless the hole is jumped. How you mistake that for "risk averse PvPers" is beyond me. We'd rather the wh spawn just as it does now. Otherwise (and as proposed) it IS a safer thing for the bears as they don't run the risk of opening holes they don't want to open).

Good grief.

Perhaps, though stating in the Dev blog that they wouldn't spawn until jumped was pretty clear. :) or so I thought.