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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#261 - 2014-08-07 15:54:49 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Lucas,

For your continued heresies against HTFU and trying to tell us how to play our game, a +1 has been added to the Kill-It-Forward queue.

An innocent carebear will be murdered in your name, and informed you are the direct cause. We thank you for your continued posts and opportunity to further advertise our organization.

And, when we no doubt convert yet another carebear detonee into joining us and walking the golden path, we will again thank you -- for its inspiration from heretics like you that inspire us to keep our faith, and the tears flowing for all to enjoy in holy HTFU communion.

Insha'Allah

F
Add 50, why not.
I'll head out today, pay for a carebear to be more carebeary and teach them how to play totally solo and avoid all gankers. I'll even introduce them to the ignore list so they don't even have to read anything from other people, they can just float in their little PvE bubble.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#262 - 2014-08-07 16:04:59 UTC
So in other words you're going to teach them how to not play the game? You masterful trollish bastard you. Why not actually give them some good advice? I recently sent an alt through the tutorials, and you know, to be honest it wasn't half bad. Aura actually warned me about asshats like me. The guy in the advanced military tutorial sent me off to my death. It was explained to me that other players might want to widen my sphincters. In other words, even those who coded that crap were in the loop when it came to people doing the whole 'surprize... buttzechz!' thing were fully aware of it happening.
If you really want to help new players out, teach em that EVE is like poker. You only bring to the table what you're willing to lose. Play to win, but have fun doing so. And ultimately, have a little grace while doing so.
If you ask questions after losing about what went wrong, most pvp'ers will be happy to answer honestly, and give advice on how to not have it happen again in the future.

Of course this falls on deaf ears. You've already earned at least one murder in your name due to being a willfully obtuse asshat, but you know, that's how things go around here.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Paranoid Loyd
#263 - 2014-08-07 16:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Stop feeding the troll.

Lucas, stop procrastinating and GET BACK TO WORK!

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#264 - 2014-08-07 17:14:00 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
So in other words you're going to teach them how to not play the game? You masterful trollish bastard you. Why not actually give them some good advice?
No, I'm going to teach them how to play the game the way they want to play it more effectively, which itself is good advice. There's no right or wrong way to play the game, as long as you enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy shooting other people, some enjoy shooting red crosses, some enjoy stripmining asteroids, some enjoy working with spreadsheets and logging on once a week to update orders. Whatever a player chooses to do in this game, if they enjoy doing it I support it. You need to get over the idea that what you do is right and everyone else is just playing the game wrong.

Omar Alharazaad wrote:
If you really want to help new players out, teach em that EVE is like poker. You only bring to the table what you're willing to lose. Play to win, but have fun doing so. And ultimately, have a little grace while doing so.
Why? It's not like poker. It's a full deck and they can play it like solitaire if they want, they just need to lay the cards out right. I can show them how to do that.

Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Stop feeding the troll.

Lucas, stop procrastinating and GET BACK TO WORK!
Meanie. I don't wanna!

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#265 - 2014-08-10 09:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
a way to reduce highsec ganking is to remove the option to turn in tags and buy your security status up. Everyone knew it was a stupied idea when introduced, i am supriced its still a thing

Back when I cared I trained up fast talk, 3 hours in null I went from -10.0 to -3.8. The tags are just a time saver, if someone with very low sec status wants back into high sec there is nothing anyone can do to stop them.

Besides who has any difficulty getting a high sec gank done with -10 sec status anyway? Carebears may stare but fortunately they rarely do anything other than feel grateful you weren't coming for them.

These days I couldn't care less what my sec status is, I don't wear -10 sec like a badge nor do I have any intention to return to high sec for anything in particular. The one thing you can be sure of though is that if I want to gank you in high, I will.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#266 - 2014-08-10 09:39:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
While I don't necessarily agree with OP, some things about criminals are kinda dumb. Like, "Hey, we know you're a criminal and we will shoot you on sight, but you can dock in our station! Come on in!"

In any event, it's obvious CCP likes ganking and general mischief. If not, it'd be gone. So they wouldn't want to make it any harder to do.

A high sec undock is one of the worst places you can possibly be if you are below -5 sec status. If you see a -5 or less player undocking in high sec ~100% chance they are in an interceptor, a T1 frigate, a shuttle, a noobship or a pod and they are not going to suicide you in any of those. The reason they use those is because they ABSOLUTELY MUST get off of that undock fast, especially if the system is heavily populated as anyone can point them without cause or penalty and the faction police will do it if you don't.

To compound this even the gate/station guns in low sec will not help a -5 player if you attack them, EVER. The guns will always help everyone else attacked by a pirate. Low sec status players consent to live in what is essentially null without bubbles regardless of the sec status of the system they are in (assuming they don't actually go to null sec), except that they will always be outnumbered when fighting on gates unlike null.

I even got into a fleet fight with another low sec group on a high sec gate several months ago and being in their home system they started to reship to beat us forcing us to deaggress and jump into high sec to not lose the whole fleet. Many of our ships were damaged and we lost 3 ships to the faction police/CONCORD since we were not in small ships and two players had killed pods. The few jumps getting back to another low sec system we lost a Guardian to some guy who tackled it on a gate in a busy system. So in case you aren't getting it, high sec is much more dangerous for me than low sec is, by a substantial margin. There are already substantial penalties for having low sec status in high sec.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#267 - 2014-08-10 10:12:01 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:


Omar Alharazaad wrote:
If you really want to help new players out, teach em that EVE is like poker. You only bring to the table what you're willing to lose. Play to win, but have fun doing so. And ultimately, have a little grace while doing so.
Why? It's not like poker. It's a full deck and they can play it like solitaire if they want, they just need to lay the cards out right. I can show them how to do that.


What I got from this is you're both right, but what he's saying is players should be ready/prepared to lose their "stuff", and you're saying that Eve can be played multiple ways players just need preparation.

Neither one of you is wrong, but if I may add my own comment to the mix:

I think despite having a plethora of different ways to play the game and even having coaching in the game, there's always going to be a way to lose everything.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#268 - 2014-08-10 10:51:03 UTC
I would point out that, while you can show up to a poker table and say that you're playing solitaire, that doesn't mean the other guys stop playing poker.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

djentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#269 - 2014-08-12 20:45:29 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:

A high sec undock is one of the worst places you can possibly be if you are below -5 sec status. If you see a -5 or less player undocking in high sec ~100% chance they are in an interceptor, a T1 frigate, a shuttle, a noobship or a pod and they are not going to suicide you in any of those. The reason they use those is because they ABSOLUTELY MUST get off of that undock fast, especially if the system is heavily populated as anyone can point them without cause or penalty and the faction police will do it if you don't.



/me undocks a battleship and warps to off grid insta undock while laughing at your lack of understanding of game mechanics :P
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858
Heroes and Villains.
#270 - 2014-08-12 21:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Boom Boom Longtime
Scouting the system you're about to jump into first before jumping in isn't rocket science - unless you're lazy, on autopilot, asinine, exuding false confidence about being safe or just oblivious to the perils of space.

The odds of misfortune occuring after jumping into a system blind mutliply many times over.

Your scout having known ganking groups set red would certainly make it difficult to spot the ugly fate potentially awaiting you in the next system, no sarcasm intended.

Outwith that making sure your permits for the space activities you engage in are up to date and valid is also probably a prudent idea.

People who complain about loses in "safe" space really probably only have themselves to blame for woefully inept in-action with regards to self protection measures.

May as well wear a bacon rasher birthday suit and enter a pit of hungry hyenas expecting not to get biten.

Concord Approved Trader

Jon 1
Demonstrably False
#271 - 2014-08-13 16:42:59 UTC
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
a way to reduce highsec ganking is to remove the option to turn in tags and buy your security status up. Everyone knew it was a stupied idea when introduced, i am supriced its still a thing



Nope. Most of the big time gankers are -10.0 and don't give a crap. Try again :-)

I used to be called 'Sturmabteilung' but CCP said it was offensive.

Ecrir Twy'Lar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2014-08-20 23:27:12 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I'm surprised there is so much focus on sec status. It's the 30 days of kill rights that are the PITA. If the gankee sets them reasonably low, then they make it difficult to operate.

I ganked mission boats for a few weeks a while back. Keeping my sec status positive was easy. The kill rights were the issue. I couldn't fly my gank ships from a trade hub to the gank system. We ended up needed out of corp haulers to get them there. The there was the issue of having the kill rights activated as you moved in on your target.

The kill rights I liked were the ones that were too high to be worh anyones trouble to activate. 100mil isk kill right on a pilot in a naga just isn't worth it. The 1 isk ones were also ok. Just hop in a noob ship and have a buddy clear it. You want to hurt the gankers activities - make his kill rights available to all and then choose the sweet spot where the costs of self clearing it hurt his bottome line, but the value for someone else to activate it are just fine.

The more active a ganker is, the lower the price point.


What good are kill rights against criminals? You can already attack them for being a criminal. The problem is that they can dock in a station in a system where they are banned. I say stop letting criminals dock in highsec. Let other players actually have a chance to try and hunt them down. Don't prevent them from ganking though. They are providing us with more content. We need villains around.
Paranoid Loyd
#273 - 2014-08-20 23:43:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Contrary to popular belief, not all criminals are -10. TBH, the most dangerous criminals I know have positive sec status.

Any criminal -10 or not can be killed if you are willing to put in the effort.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#274 - 2014-08-21 00:15:07 UTC
Ecrir Twy'Lar wrote:
What good are kill rights against criminals? You can already attack them for being a criminal. The problem is that they can dock in a station in a system where they are banned. I say stop letting criminals dock in highsec. Let other players actually have a chance to try and hunt them down. Don't prevent them from ganking though. They are providing us with more content. We need villains around.
They're not banned from any system, if they were they wouldn't be in the system in the first place, let alone be able to dock.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Uppgrayyedd
Doomheim
#275 - 2014-08-21 03:34:04 UTC
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:
Scouting the system you're about to jump into first before jumping in isn't rocket science - unless you're POH



Fixed.
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#276 - 2014-08-22 11:29:39 UTC
Ecrir Twy'Lar wrote:


What good are kill rights against criminals? You can already attack them for being a criminal. The problem is that they can dock in a station in a system where they are banned. I say stop letting criminals dock in highsec. Let other players actually have a chance to try and hunt them down. Don't prevent them from ganking though. They are providing us with more content. We need villains around.



All this would do is make it harder for newbies without multiple accounts and armies of alts to get into piracy. More seasoned players like myself will just shrug and circumvent this nuisance easily.

Congratulations, you just made EVE less attractive for noobs, exactly what this game needs. Roll
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#277 - 2014-08-22 11:46:17 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, not all criminals are -10. TBH, the most dangerous criminals I know have positive sec status.

Any criminal -10 or not can be killed if you are willing to put in the effort.


The biggest anti-pirate/gank whiners are usually completely unwilling to put any effort in at all. They want game mechanics to keep them 100% safe and on top of that they want game mechanics to do their hunting for them as well...

When I got into ganking, I was shocked to find out just how little effort they are willing to put in. I expected ppl to come after me, camp my stations, hire mercs and what not. None of it, most they would do is make the killright available for free or very cheap. Only one guy made any sort of effort at all, he shot at me when we met outside a station while undocking. Unfortunately, he did not know he had to activate his kill right first so he got himself a not so pleasant meeting with the local CONCORD squad.

Having said that, I've failed ganks and/or gotten killed (even podded!) during those. But those where due to coincidental passers by, screw ups on my part or my favorite one: laaaaaaaaaaag.
Solecist Project
#278 - 2014-08-22 12:14:22 UTC
I want to see harder punishment against people who are unable to use that weird thing looking like this "." ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#279 - 2014-08-22 18:41:31 UTC
I actually read this thread. What delightful tears. Hats off to the gankers.

Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com

Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,  live it, breathe it!

Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#280 - 2014-08-22 22:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rabe Raptor
Solecist Project wrote:
I want to see harder punishment against people who are unable to use that weird thing looking like this "." ...


O-("_"Q)

Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com

Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,  live it, breathe it!