Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Good suggestions, many thanks, but it doesn't change the fact that nerfing the Ishtar is generally about PvP. If that's the consensus then fine; I just wanted it to be recognized.

hmmm... With 6 launchers, Scourge Rage, and 4x CN BCS on both a Tengu and a Cerberus, the Tengu gets 100 more DPS. More than I thought, and nothing to sneeze at for sure. However it comes at the expense of 13km less range, 480 m/s less when MWDing, 31 m/s less when ABing (assuming fuel catalyst sub), and 250 less PWG. The Tengu has more tank, which is irrelevant for hisec sites. Nobody is losing their HAC or Gila to NPCs in a hisec site.

A Gila goes 560 m/s faster than a Tengu with MWD, 34 m/s faster with AB, can match the Tengu's DPS, and has a slightly worse tank.

So the best PvE T3 has a little more tank and cap than the current site runners. I don't see what the big deal is. More tank and cap isn't going to allow people to complete sites any faster. It has comparable DPS to Gila and Ishtar (potentially less DPS than Ishtar, actually). Its slower, has a bigger sig, and less range than Cerb, Gila, Ishtar.

And it costs more and causes skillpoint loss, so its a juicier target for me.

Something fishy with that gila fit then. Gila should be pulling 900+ with faction kit.

ishtar is supposed to be able to use combat drones. if they suck, then you should be asking for them to be buffed.

Sorry but balance in the game is paramount in PVP and secodnary in PVE. A simple unbalance in PVP can break completely the experience. A unbalance issue in PVE will jsut mean one person is makign a bit more isk per hour than other, will not change the experience of the other person doing PVE.

That is why PVE balance is and must always be secondary to PVP balance on combat ships. If somethign is utterly overpowered in PVP it cannot exist, even if its just a good ship for PVE.

Do not take review by CSM as any assurance that the features or changs were scrutnized. They were elected.. thatusually means they are people with charisma or influence... but means nothing regarding their analitical skills.

Just because millions elect a president, that does not make him anywhere close to qualified to check the structure calculation of a Damm in the place of proper engineers.

Rofl. I think, to be perfectly honest, that is actually a function of the order of magnitude higher tank.

Please.
Don't start this talk again.
This is nonsense.

Do not put this stupid compare how many battleships you need to alpha slowcat carrier.

The person putting this argument in place was a f*** i*** in the first place.

The real question is how many ships on grid can nodes / clients handle before every thing becomes buggy and unresponsive.
Sorry but based on the same assumption , you don't have to use battleships, what you need is enough rifters, or even noobships to alpha sentry carrier.

This topic is not even about sentry carriers, battleships, but HAC.

Sentries are unbalanced weapon system that is the issue of current isthar situation not the hull itself
Simple statement.

Battleships are inherently more vulnerable to bombing runs than HACs. A few bombing runs against a Sentry Domi fleet would likely render them totally ineffective as all of their sentry drones would get wiped out. This is a vulnerability that turret battleships do not have. (Neither do carriers, but only because they have such a massive supply of drones.)

I haven't seen anyone saying that Ishtars are the only ships worth flying, just the only HACs worth flying. They don't dominate the overall game meta, just the T2 cruiser meta.


The fact that anyone even thinks about comparing a Sentry Ishtar fleet to a Sentry Domi fleet, or that they can serve some of the same roles, proves definitively to me that there is a balance issue within the HAC line. Do we ever hear Eagles being compared to Megas or Rohks? Or Zealots to Apocs? Or Munins to Maelstroms? Nope.

CCP make every time the same mistake.

We can't give to the same ship to much advantage.

Now we have not only the isthar problem but also the problem with orthus, gila un inty.

The problem is very simple you can't give two powerfull bonus on the same ship.

This two bonus are speed and long range weapons.

Ishtar problem : The problem on the isthar in very simple it's sentry.

Why : Because you have the speed, the sig, and some long range heavy dps, and no EW against drone. If you decrease the bonus on the sentry range and tracking. You don't change the main problem (launch the sentry and go away)

First Nerf the sentry mechanic.

Too use the sentry you need to stay near of your sentry to keep the control (like zone of 10 km).
add EW against drone

Interceptor with light missile, also same problem you have the range and the speed.

What hapenning now, you see only the interceptor with missile.

Nerf the missile interceptor.

Remove the light missile on it, and put some rocket with range bonus (range max 24 km).

Orthus

We can't give the range dps, and disrupt bonus and the same ship

Why because again the same problem, you can't counter the dps no EW agaisnt missile.

add some ew agaisnt missile, give only the bonus on the scramble not the disruptor