Wormholes

this is a bad idea i relay like it for what it was met to fix but unless i misunderstood it the k162 from a c1 2 or 3 will not show up until you jump out that means high sec connections will not be opened

i live in a c1 with a static high i scan the high ever day i diced i want to rat there is only one sig i scan that sig jump to it book mark it pos up reship into a rating ship go rat my happy little ass off knowing i am safe

ok and yes with the old functions it was still easy enouff to do just dont warp to it and it didnt spawn but untill recently that was not confirmed

The real concern is one that was introduced with Odyssey in the first place: instant and free intel about what is happening in W-space. We know this is something that clearly concerns you guys given primarily the removal of API kill info from W-space. This change addresses the symptom, safety for the PvE fleets, but not the underlying root issue. It also adds issues of its own.

In wormhole space, what we want, what you guys verbalize on the forums, and what the lore seems to support, is more unknown in W-space. Applied to this situation and signatures and the Discovery Scanner in particular, is that sigs and anomalies at 0% should not appear until scanned. Whether in the overlay in space, or whether in the scanner window, it should require probes to identify signatures in W-space. A value of 0% means you don't know anything about it, including that it even exists.

Only in W-space. Everywhere else, this is fine. It encourages exploration, and it encourages people to be exposed to wormholes more and more, ultimately leading to the increased traffic we saw when Odyssey landed.

W-space, however, should maintain its reputation for being a challenge and for being a place of unknowns. What challenge is there if you know, jumping in, what is there and what isn't unless you can already warp to it?

Because of the concerns over loss of connectivity in W-space from this, the planned change should not go into effect. Instead, as we have requested, the Discovery Scanner and the system overlay should be adjusted.

Because it would be different, some notice in the scanner window indicating that the scanner is not completely functional in W-space should be made, with the suggestion of dropping probes to fully recon the system.


The reason the timer option is bad, and that this whole idea should be scrapped, is that it removes risk. If I log into my C5 system, and I'm the first one online today and getting prepared for our farming session for the night, I'll scan the system. If I see only one wormhole, I could warp to it, see that it hasn't begun its natural cycle (or see that it has), and have a reasonable idea of whether the K162 exists, having a reasonable idea of my level of safety. I could also warp to additional wormholes, see that they are random outbound holes and thus also likely safe, and ignore them.

If, instead, I know that by warping to it that I will spawn the K162, I'm faced with a dilemna (ie, an interesting choice): do I warp to it, possibly spawning it, to verify that it hasn't already been opened, or do I take the chance that someone hasn't rolled into my system while no one was on, opened it, and then rolled off, leaving my now-opened static as the only wormhole in the system? What about that second wormhole? Is it a K162 or is it a random outbound? I have to warp to it, opening it, to find out.

Suddenly there is risk added that has less chance of existing with this change, and will most likely lead to collapsing that hole, also possibly leading to explosions.


Related to this, please also change the type of Ore sites back to signatures, instead of anomalies.

While I understand the idea of nullsec players warping to a WH and not activating it is a concern I do believe this will be compensated with the overall increase in wormholes throughout eve as referenced in the other blog. Overall I think this will balance AND give players more choice. Good work CCP

This change is half arsed and generally just poorly thought out.
now it gives too much advantage to the scanner.

would it REALLY be THAT difficult to just make the new WHs scannable on probes but not show on the stupid auto scan array?
seriously, it's not that complicated.

the difference is that warping to it currently opens the wormhole, you may hate the hole, but it is opened. Now when someone in null jumps to a hole that originates there, they can look at it hate it and never warp through. It won't be jumped through so it never opens. it should spawn regardless of jumping after 4 hours, and then the current balance is preserved.

I think smaller groups lose that sense of security regardless of how long the timer is. Even if it's just five minutes, that means that at any time, you could have a hostile scout enter your system and have no idea about it. Since that ore site you're mining doesn't need to be scannable, he could be warping up on you in his cloaky proteus right now, looking for a fat mining barge to kill.

Prior to Odyssey, during wormhole mining we had probes out all the time, constantly watching for new sigs. After Odyssey, we had the overlay up all the time, constantly watching for new sigs. When we spotted them, they gave us the chance to warp the miners back to a POS and gear up for a fight. It wasn't very much of a chance. Sometimes someone was too slow warping out, and they'd get jumped. But it was a chance.

Now, that chance is even smaller.

Larger groups (that do things like mining) can adapt to this by deploying ewar-based sentries or logistics in support of their mining fleet. Please warp your cloaky proteus in on my mining fleet while I have a couple of cloaked Arazu's orbiting on sentry duty. It'll be fun as all our miners go grab their combat ships and then come back to kill you. Smaller groups don't have that luxury.

In reality, no one will do that though, no matter how big their group is. Because it'd be tedious. Running sentry duty on mining ops is boring. EVE Players don't like boring. When things get boring, we log off and go find other things to do.

I think I like this change overall, it's much more balanced than the first iteration.

Can we have one adjustment? The K162 spawns after someone jumps through for the first time, OR after 1 hour. (or X number of hours). You seem to want to create more wormhole connections, this will do it. All those unused wormholes will finally have k162's spawn.

But the best part:

The singularity server will finally have wormholes on it!

I mean, as long as you're touching this part of wormholes, please?

This has to be the best change of all. I see now downside to this expansion at all.


Ship it.

I think a random timer would be best, like 5 minutes to 1 or 2 hours. Adds uncertainty on both sides.

I like the balance of the proposed changes which would both retain a certain level of safety to a vigilant WH dweller looking for new sigs as a sign that a system is vulnerable, while making it so that people attempting to look to pvp can properly catch other wormholes unaware, especially with fast tackle.

I do also agree that this system would hurt W-space's connectivity with K-space. I do not think that automatic K162s, even delayed, are the answer however (especially those proposing it be based on WH spawn, as opposed to warpin). This problem could more easily be solved by either not implementing the K162 change on K->W wormholes, or my personal preference, dramatically increasing the number of random W->K Wormholes. Not implementing the K162 change on K-space wormholes does help ensure limited, if any, changes to K->W connectivity, but increasing the number of W->K wormholes better allows w-space residents to launch PVP-raids on k-space without relying on someone scanning and even warping to a wormhole in juicy systems. The same raids made possible in W-Space because of this change could become more common in k-space.