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Just a Suggestion about the Barghest
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Xade Mex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-08-03 22:30:18 UTC
My point here is that a ship with the minimum range of 150 km (decent skills and fury missiles) has a bonus to warp-scramblers/disruptors...to bring it from 26 km (faction longpoint) to GAME BREAKING 39 km....i mean REALLY CCP?

The DPS of the ship is decent (about 1,2-1,4k dps) but this is simply not comperable to the dps of the other pirate faction ships except the nightmare, which has a sick damage application and range flexibility to make up for this
(And dont tell me that mordus arent pirates :D)
The idea is that a ship that is so overly-expensive but so INSANLY useless, because those two bonuses just dont work out for it....needs a change...like either give it a longer point (60km+ would be still to short but then everybody would cry "ITS OP Q.Q" i personaly think about 100k point range? would be to strong but still the ship wouldnt be worth the price to use it in pvp-there are Carriers who cost less with fitting than this hull!)

So a simple idea here....give it a second damage bonus .....like "+5% rate of fire" or just upgrade the other dmg bonus to +10% and maybe even give it a 8th launcher or whatever is needed to make that nearly 2 billion ship usable in any point. (please no Raven Navy Issue-like boni such as "explosion radius" i mean DPS! because it has enough damage application) and no it wouldnt be OP....Tell me more about 2k dps vindicators!


I'll just leave this here
Regards
Xade Mex
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2 - 2014-08-03 22:36:20 UTC
Haven't you learned yet that cost isn't a balancing factor and that new ships are expensive simply because they're new?
Xade Mex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-08-04 12:49:22 UTC
The costs arent the actual point (i dont care about it costing 1-4 bil)- the point is that the combination of boni on this ship simply dont make sense

The ships arent expensive because they are new...they are growing in costs actually, they are expensive because they are difficult to aquire :)

But really the thing is that a ship that is "long range missiles with quick damage application to kite" makes sense...the range bonus works fantastic for the cruiser and the frigatte but on a BS which has so immense range a DMG bonus would just make sense or a even longer point. the one bonus is just plain useless for all purposes no matter if pve or pvp and that is the problem about this ship
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-08-04 13:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Odithia
You can get a 71km overheated long point on any Mordus Legion ship with skirmish link and a faction warp disruptor.
Tha'ts pretty good for a battleship, the bonus on the frig and cruiser is a tad too much tho.

Domination Warp Disruptor
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
No link :
Cold 45km
OH 54km

Link :
Cold 60.5km
OH 71km
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2014-08-04 13:30:14 UTC
lol this guy thinks nightmares are good
LT Alter
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#6 - 2014-08-04 13:32:33 UTC
erm.. where are you getting your numbers. I mean I'm not a huge fan of the braghest here but with a faction point you should be getting 45km sans bonuses and ~60km w/bonuses. Also torps get about 30km w/faction ammo, rapid heavies get about 94km faction ammo. Then we have cruise missiles at 200 some km, and you shouldn't be using cruise missiles for pvp. On top of that you're saying it gets 1.2-1.4k dps and has a minimum range of 150km… my response to this is, no you are not getting 1.2-1.4k dps with cruise missiles, my second is to get 1.2-1.4k dps you're maximum range would be about 30km or less.

Now putting all those misleading numbers aside I'm completely missing your point,. By your logic all sniper ships should have long points. Which makes no sense to me at all. if you would care to elaborate I would be interested to hear it.
LT Alter
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#7 - 2014-08-04 13:33:40 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
lol this guy thinks nightmares are good


They are good…
.
.
.
.
.
For incursions Cool
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#8 - 2014-08-04 13:39:05 UTC
Odithia wrote:
You can get a 71km overheated long point on any Mordus Legion ship with skirmish link and a faction warp disruptor.
Tha'ts pretty good for a battleship, the bonus on the frig and cruiser is a tad too much tho.

Domination Warp Disruptor
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
No link :
Cold 45km
OH 54km

Link :
Cold 60.5km
OH 71km


crazy range 71km .. links well need nerfing and perhaps reduce the 10% bonus too 7.5% would be more balanced

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
LT Alter
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#9 - 2014-08-04 13:54:01 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
crazy range 71km .. links well need nerfing and perhaps reduce the 10% bonus too 7.5% would be more balanced


Sigh, it's quite balanced in it's current state. This range is only achievable by a select range of ships, they've already nerfed it from what it was before. Another nerf is unnecessary.
Arla Sarain
#10 - 2014-08-04 14:16:26 UTC
LT Alter wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
crazy range 71km .. links well need nerfing and perhaps reduce the 10% bonus too 7.5% would be more balanced


Sigh, it's quite balanced in it's current state. This range is only achievable by a select range of ships, they've already nerfed it from what it was before. Another nerf is unnecessary.

Don't see why when something is achievable by a select few ships it's that it's fine.

You end up countering them with the same few ships.
LT Alter
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#11 - 2014-08-04 22:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: LT Alter
Arla Sarain wrote:
Don't see why when something is achievable by a select few ships it's that it's fine.

You end up countering them with the same few ships.


I normally don't go around attacking people's grammar… but I have no idea what you just said or more specifically what you mean from what you said.
Xade Mex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-08-05 00:02:04 UTC
LT Alter wrote:
erm.. where are you getting your numbers. I mean I'm not a huge fan of the braghest here but with a faction point you should be getting 45km sans bonuses and ~60km w/bonuses. Also torps get about 30km w/faction ammo, rapid heavies get about 94km faction ammo. Then we have cruise missiles at 200 some km, and you shouldn't be using cruise missiles for pvp. On top of that you're saying it gets 1.2-1.4k dps and has a minimum range of 150km… my response to this is, no you are not getting 1.2-1.4k dps with cruise missiles, my second is to get 1.2-1.4k dps you're maximum range would be about 30km or less.

Now putting all those misleading numbers aside I'm completely missing your point,. By your logic all sniper ships should have long points. Which makes no sense to me at all. if you would care to elaborate I would be interested to hear it.




Im getting my numbers from 26km optimal range points x1.5 =39 km
The 1,2k dps with cruises 1,4 with cruises and drones

Torps on the barghest? no thanks i wont use a unbonused weapon system on a faction ship.

(Nightmares give 50 mil ticks in bloodraider/sanshas space but PSSSST ;) )

Rapid heavy would be an OKAY choice with a good mix of range, dps and application but still this ship is much much weaker then it could/should be without the senseless bonus on points... ts just not usefull in any way either pvp or pve, and should be in at least one of those areas since every faction has its speacial shiny thing which makes them special and usefull in either pve/pvp the barghest has non of those (web for serps, ab for sanshas, unnerved nos (AND longer webs) for BR, Warpspeed for AC, drones+Missies for guristas) but a LONG point on a BS is just plain useless because its not useful either on PVP or PVE yes point on 50+km? sur but hey lets take a better tanked, longer pointing ship like the proteus or the arazu :) this ship has only one thing that makes it unique...the super fast hitting missiles. so better DONT support that thing and give it a bonus that has litteraly no synergy with it ... great job CCP still.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-08-05 00:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Celthric Kanerian
Technically Mordu's Legion aren't pirates, they're mercenaries... big difference.

I think CCP has to do something with both the Barghest and the Nestor inorder to reduce the cost of it. It's like officer mods, you find them, sell them... but never leave for lowsec - null - WH, where they're best used for.

Also I think your post is more of a rant than an actual idea, and by the way you wrote your post, I'm assuming that you wrote it while infuriated.
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-08-05 00:35:10 UTC
When they buff the point range and hugely buff DPS of the Arazu and Lachesis then you can have your DPS and point range increase.

Until then be happy with a ship that can long point AND dps effectively, even if its with crummy missiles.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-08-05 00:58:02 UTC
Personally I love the versatility you can get with the Bhargest as is. I do find it so surprising not to see so many out on contracts though. Need Moar peeps in lowsec I think.
LT Alter
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#16 - 2014-08-05 02:48:06 UTC
Xade Mex wrote:

Im getting my numbers from 26km optimal range points x1.5 =39 km
The 1,2k dps with cruises 1,4 with cruises and drones

Torps on the barghest? no thanks i wont use a unbonused weapon system on a faction ship.

(Nightmares give 50 mil ticks in bloodraider/sanshas space but PSSSST ;) )

Rapid heavy would be an OKAY choice with a good mix of range, dps and application but still this ship is much much weaker then it could/should be without the senseless bonus on points... ts just not usefull in any way either pvp or pve, and should be in at least one of those areas since every faction has its speacial shiny thing which makes them special and usefull in either pve/pvp the barghest has non of those (web for serps, ab for sanshas, unnerved nos (AND longer webs) for BR, Warpspeed for AC, drones+Missies for guristas) but a LONG point on a BS is just plain useless because its not useful either on PVP or PVE yes point on 50+km? sur but hey lets take a better tanked, longer pointing ship like the proteus or the arazu :) this ship has only one thing that makes it unique...the super fast hitting missiles. so better DONT support that thing and give it a bonus that has litteraly no synergy with it ... great job CCP still.


Ok, first off face palm. Second off, there are so many things wrong with this post that I almost believe it's a troll. Third let me reiterate that those numbers are wrong.

Xade Mex wrote:
Im getting my numbers from 26km optimal range points x1.5 =39 km
The 1,2k dps with cruises 1,4 with cruises and drones


First off, Republic Fleet Warp Disrupter. Optimal range of 30km*1.5=45km before you apply fleet bonuses or heat. Second, with T2 Cruise Missile Launchers with T2 ammo and 4 T2 Ballistic Control systems you will get a dps of 972 before drones (1034 with caldari navy Ballistic Control Systems). Not this mythical 1.2k dps you keep talking about, to achieve 1.2k dps you would need officer launchers with officer ballistic control systems and 6% hardwiring implants. Also a full flight of medium drones only adds about 150 dps not 200 (I'm splitting hairs here but I'm making my point extra clear).

Xade Mex wrote:
Torps on the barghest? no thanks i wont use a unbonused weapon system on a faction ship.


Um… Erm.. let me quote the bonus on the braghest for you. 5% bonus to missile damage that means all missiles. That means cruise missiles, torpedoes, hell even citadel launchers and rockets. That bonus means if it's a missile launcher it gets a damage bonus. So torps are not an unbonused weapon.

Xade Mex wrote:
but a LONG point on a BS is just plain useless because its not useful either on PVP or PVE


It's supposed to be a fast, kiting missile boat. The long point ensures it stays out of typical damage range of other ships and more importantly out of range of tackle. I can't think of a bonus I would rather have for a ship like this, I think it would be rather useless without that long point. I'm not a huge fan of fast kiting paper tanks, but I know that the braghest is far from useless and that bonus ensures that fact so I have no idea what you're spouting off about lacking synergy.