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Long story short: 425mm rails still owns
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Haffsol
#1 - 2014-07-26 18:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Haffsol
You'll sh*t spodu when you'll see it so I'd rather tell you first.

oh btw, 800mm arties too
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-07-27 00:09:42 UTC
IBTL

Friends
Haffsol
#3 - 2014-07-27 09:18:20 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
IBTL


Why? Isn't it relevant to say that 425mm Railguns are still the best way to haul minerals through nullsec? And 800mm Repeating Artilleries too?

oh but maybe you're one of those who doesn't even know what all this mineral compression thing is

I see I see, go and buy uber-priced cubes of compressed dense veldpar and live happy
Luci Ambrye
The Service Crew
#4 - 2014-07-27 10:42:12 UTC
so how many 425mm rails have you been lumbered with since the changes and cant sell?
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-07-27 11:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
Haffsol wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
IBTL


Why? Isn't it relevant to say that 425mm Railguns are still the best way to haul minerals through nullsec? And 800mm Repeating Artilleries too?

oh but maybe you're one of those who doesn't even know what all this mineral compression thing is

I see I see, go and buy uber-priced cubes of compressed dense veldpar and live happy


The price will go down as miners slowly wise up.

Also I fully expect people to start putting up enticing (ie. more than highsec-refined-mineral-price) raw ore buy orders all over highsec and compressing them for shipping to Jita for a small margin. I mean, if you run a POS in some sys, why not stick compression array, put up some buy orders, compress on the side and haul to Jita with the rest of your goods? The market for compressed low ends is so massive that it doesn't really matter if you only get 5-10% cut for compressing and hauling to Jita, you can move hundreds of billions of ISK of goods if you can just get miners clued in to "SELL ORE!!!"

Right now you can already get more than highsec (72%) refine mineral worth for low end ores if you choose where you sell it. No compression array or POS needed. And you can obviously get even more if you have the compression gear set up.

Jita buy orders for compressed are already floating at around 1900 per compressed unit (so ~19 ISK per ore unit) for Veldspar while Trit you get out of that is worth considerably less (last I checked, something like 1600 ISK).

Edit: Secret protip: PL cap builders are currently moaning that they can't start new supercap builds because there is not enough compressed ore on the market and the idea of titan-bridging hundreds fo freighter loads of minerals doesn't exactly sit well with their idea of a sane manufacturing operation.

Same reason is why Trit price is in freefall. Large amount of demand just went POOF overnight.
Haffsol
#6 - 2014-07-27 11:29:37 UTC
Luci Ambrye wrote:
so how many 425mm rails have you been lumbered with since the changes and cant sell?


zero, never did that for business, assuming there was a business over 425mm rails even before crius. People used to built them _for themselves_ obviously, or at least I hope so.

Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
you can move hundreds of billions of ISK of goods if you can just get miners clued in to "SELL ORE!!!"......
Jita buy orders for compressed are already floating at around 1900 per compressed unit (so ~19 ISK per ore unit) for Veldspar while trit you get out of that is worth considerably less..........
Same reason is why Trit price is in freefall. Large amount of demand just went POOF overnight.

This says a lot about how to create and feed a speculation or bubble. There is actually no reason for the compressed ore market to arise, not to mention taking over the minerals one. People are just swapping from the hassle of building tons of 425mm rails to the hassle of building tons of compressed cubes, and losing money in the process.

I'm no spreadsheet guru and I've not gone into every little detail about compression in high/low/null so I can't really say how much people are losing buying ores instead of minerals but that would be nice to find out.
Qoi
Exert Force
#7 - 2014-07-27 12:21:00 UTC
So 425mm Railgun I, 55% reprocessing (theoretical maximum) at Jita 5th Percentile prices from EVE-Central:
Buy price 58.5% above value of mineral content
Sell price 80.2% above value of mineral content

Compressed Veldspar, 86.83% reprocessing (theoretical maximum) at Jita 5th Percentile prices from EVE-Central:
Buy 1.5% above value of mineral content
Sell 25.8% above value of mineral content

Lol

http://eve-industry.org
Haffsol
#8 - 2014-07-27 12:50:39 UTC
Oooooops for a little bug just spotted in my spreadsheet I was calculating the same reprocess value for the 425mm rails and the ores which is not exactly correct ShockedOopsPirateLol

@Qoi: dunno what you're saying there, I never suggested to BUY 425mm rails off the market, I was thinking of building them but..... see above and thanks for letting me double check that 55% on the reprocess yield.
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-07-28 10:44:25 UTC
Haffsol wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
IBTL


Why? Isn't it relevant to say that 425mm Railguns are still the best way to haul minerals through nullsec? And 800mm Repeating Artilleries too?

oh but maybe you're one of those who doesn't even know what all this mineral compression thing is

I see I see, go and buy uber-priced cubes of compressed dense veldpar and live happy

I used to use the EVE Refinery app to cash in on suitably priced modules for minerals.

http://www.homo-programmatis.com/EveRefinery/

And last i checked it is now better to use a single small highsec POS near a trade hub to compress your own ore and haul it down to null that way, using a specialised clone to refine it all in a Minmatar outpost with max refinery upgrades, what with the 11% yield increase if you have the relevant skills at 5 and the right implants.

But if I am wrong, please feel free to show the math.

Friends
Careby
#10 - 2014-07-28 13:35:01 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
...Also I fully expect people to start putting up enticing (ie. more than highsec-refined-mineral-price) raw ore buy orders all over highsec and compressing them for shipping to Jita for a small margin. I mean, if you run a POS in some sys, why not stick compression array, put up some buy orders, compress on the side and haul to Jita with the rest of your goods? The market for compressed low ends is so massive that it doesn't really matter if you only get 5-10% cut for compressing and hauling to Jita, you can move hundreds of billions of ISK of goods if you can just get miners clued in to "SELL ORE!!!"

Getting miners to sell the ore is no problem. Ore can be bought at reasonable prices in plenty of systems. Some of them even have vacant moons for the compression POS. Compression is quick and easy, and the compressed ore is easy to move. There is just one catch, at least for me. I don't really enjoy spending hours in a freighter ferrying the uncompressed ore to the POS. It takes 66 freighter loads of veldspar to make one full freighter of compressed veldspar, and courier contracts don't deliver to POSes. It makes much more sense for miners to cut out the middle man and drop the ore at a compression array as soon as it's mined. I think the current high prices of compressed ore reflect the PITA factor of third-party compression. Time will tell if those prices stay high.


Haffsol wrote:
...I never suggested to BUY 425mm rails off the market, I was thinking of building them but..... see above and thanks for letting me double check that 55% on the reprocess yield.

Building or buying makes little difference. You build at 100% of mineral value PLUS job cost, which is no longer neglible. You reprocess at 55%. Compression via modules still works fine, but it's now a lot more wasteful and expensive.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-07-28 17:28:19 UTC
Careby wrote:
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
...Also I fully expect people to start putting up enticing (ie. more than highsec-refined-mineral-price) raw ore buy orders all over highsec and compressing them for shipping to Jita for a small margin. I mean, if you run a POS in some sys, why not stick compression array, put up some buy orders, compress on the side and haul to Jita with the rest of your goods? The market for compressed low ends is so massive that it doesn't really matter if you only get 5-10% cut for compressing and hauling to Jita, you can move hundreds of billions of ISK of goods if you can just get miners clued in to "SELL ORE!!!"

Getting miners to sell the ore is no problem. Ore can be bought at reasonable prices in plenty of systems. Some of them even have vacant moons for the compression POS. Compression is quick and easy, and the compressed ore is easy to move. There is just one catch, at least for me. I don't really enjoy spending hours in a freighter ferrying the uncompressed ore to the POS. It takes 66 freighter loads of veldspar to make one full freighter of compressed veldspar, and courier contracts don't deliver to POSes. It makes much more sense for miners to cut out the middle man and drop the ore at a compression array as soon as it's mined. I think the current high prices of compressed ore reflect the PITA factor of third-party compression. Time will tell if those prices stay high.



The premium will stay for a while.

Supercap producers would like to buy multiple freighterloads of low ends (Veld, Scord, Plagio mostly) in compressed form.

Jita can currently supply... um... almost nothing. The Volume is tiny and everything on sell orders anywhere near the normal market value is immediately gone.

Sell compressed ore. If you don't have compression array handy, sell raw ore. You will make more ISK.