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EVE: Death and Tax
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Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#1 - 2014-07-25 06:35:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarisen Gream
Edited for spelling, clarification, and to help people understand what a "discussion forum" is.

We all now that at some point death and tax will effect us all in RL as well as in-game.

Current (changes) with the new industrial fees
- it charges people for use in their own structures/sov (Things people took time to develop or take control over to be away from the control of the Empries, and Concord).

- we know it was designed to pull isk out of the game as there was starting to be way to much. (Just a basic game currency fee)

Some thoughts (I had) on other isk sinks that (might not) have been so bad.
1: only charge industrial taxes in NPC controlled space - including both pirates and empires.
(Any fees incurred from industry should take place in NPC stations. Player owned should have gotten a different form of tax. If CCP wanted to build into the lore that we needed to maintain our structures and outpost, they should have done so. POS could have had a decay rate where they would take damage over time, and thus require another in-game item to maintain their extreme operational ability. Outpost holders would have been in charge of their own tax, and suffered some kind of decay, that would also require something to maintain the building. + the Janitor fees. . . Lucky Minmatar stations, have no janitors.)

2: let SOV holders set their own taxes. But increase the cost of maintaining SOV control.
(This could have balanced point one)

3: charge a "property" tax on goods in player hangers when in NPC stations.
(I hate property tax, but hey had to be presented)

4: a gate tax and/or docking tax based on standing and security in NPC space.
(worse than a property tax, but also had to be presented)

5: increase the cost of LP and add isk cost to star base charters when bought from LP stores.
(As CCP removed the requirements of standing for towers, it doesn't really make sense to have Star Base Charters be an LP store item. Instead they could have been a NPC market item that changed according to demand. Thus spreading players out, or at least getting them to shop in different systems for their charters.)

(Removed)

There are other ways to increase isk sinking, without stepping on everyone's toes and (****) in their shoes.

Only (constructive) feed back and ideas please.
Again not advocating changes to the new system, just looking for a good discussion on what could have been done or improvements to the current system.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-07-25 06:48:51 UTC
No.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Sato Page
Auctor Illuminatas Infinitum
#3 - 2014-07-25 06:51:42 UTC
No.

Dinsdale Pirannha for [u]CEO [/u]of [u]CCP[/u]
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#4 - 2014-07-25 06:53:29 UTC
No.
Satyr Ersatz
New Eden Security Services
#5 - 2014-07-25 06:55:40 UTC
No.
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-07-25 06:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Da Dom
Amarisen Gream wrote:
And yes could have placed in F&I, but this is a discussion to find the best option for isk sinking compared to the new Crius style.


Massive, endless wars

Because Far-que... That's why.
Grenadier Greyback
May Cause Irritation
#7 - 2014-07-25 07:14:06 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:
And yes could have placed in F&I, but this is a discussion to find the best option for isk sinking compared to the new Crius style.


Massive, endless wars



Damnit. I was hoping you'd say "no" so I could chime in with "there's no limits".....

https://i.imgur.com/xnZKiON.gif
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#8 - 2014-07-25 07:15:26 UTC
- 5 mil ISK tax for creating a thread in a wrong section of the forum;

That one would be a hell of an ISK sink.
Yang Aurilen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-07-25 07:43:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Yang Aurilen
I'll be the voice of reason and say yes because it will introduce uncontrollable inflation and will devalue all of our products from the endless ISK fountain that is nullGRRGOONBLUEDONUTNERFHIGHSECBLOBWARFAREF1MONKEYBLOBSTAGNANTEVEISDYINGPSHHHHHsec space.

On the other hand having 1 trillion ISK is now considered something a 1 week old newbie should have since the value of all products has crashed due to a massive influx of ISK into the system.

SO all in all OP's advice is a good idea and it should be presented in the next CSM meeting and implemented after Hyperion because it is the BEST IDEA EVER.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Serene Repose
#10 - 2014-07-25 07:48:07 UTC
You're being charged for labor. You never had to pay labor costs before. Now you do. Just because it's in YOUR POS doesn't mean you get to institute slavery in EVE. If the Amarrians had to give it up, I imagine you won't be allowed ... anymore.

I don't even manufacture and I picked up at least this much of it. Derp.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#11 - 2014-07-25 08:01:02 UTC
Or they could add a tax to all industry related thing, which should then be paid for by consumers of the end products and ultimately, anyone who flies spaceships.

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#12 - 2014-07-25 08:25:33 UTC
Lol. A lot of "no"s. This is a discussion forum. If you cann't give more than a two letter word response, then you probably shouldn't reply.

Plus I never said my ideas needed to be implemented. They are simply ideas.
Also what labor force am I paying in a POS. Now I can understand a wear and tear cost on the machines., but I don't supply NPCs to a tower to make things. So no labor cost.
Also allowing a NPC system to tax every inch of New Eden is like saying, the UN can now tax everyone in the world because it can. I understand it is a game, and they needed a way to deflat the isk. What I'd like to happen here is a discussion on things that they could have done for an isk sink, but not a cookie cutter method or one size fits all.

If they went through and only charged the tax on hi/low sec industry but then doubled the null-sec SOV cost. The large blocs would ether A) rent more space. B) make more stuff to sell or tax members more or C) lose control of their space. Which means more things blowing up as people fight for control.

A single cookie-cutter tax system doesn't help anyone. The dust will settle soon, and the pre-crius issues will be the post-Crius issues.

Okay. Done ranting for now. Time for proper discussion in great than 2 letter responses.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#13 - 2014-07-25 08:34:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Amarisen Gream wrote:

We all know that at some point death and taxes will affect us all.

I will reserve judgement on that until I see some proof (though taxes do affect me, they affect me rather nicely, thank you). Also, fixed spelling

Amarisen Gream wrote:
Current issues with the new industrial fees
- it charges people for use in their own structures/sov.
- we know it was designed to pull isk out of the game as there was starting to be way to much.

1) How much?
2) So you agree its okay then?

Amarisen Gream wrote:
Some thoughts on other isk sinks that wouldn't have been so bad.
1: only charge industrial taxes in NPC controlled space - including both pirates and empires.
2: let SOV holders set their own taxes. But increase the cost of maintaining SOV control.
3: charge a "property" tax on goods in player hangers when in NPC stations.
4: a gate tax and/or docking tax based on standing and security in NPC space.
5: increase the cost of LP and add isk cost to star base charters when bought from LP stores.

1: Why? Whats your rationale that means lawless space is more expensive to live in than 1.0?
2: They already do
3: How on earth would that be better than taxes based on how much you use the functions of stations and POSes in Highsec?
4: Easily avoided and unacceptable in High Sec
5: Dont be insane, its stupid that these even exist in the first place.



Amarisen Gream wrote:
There are other ways to increase isk sinking, without stepping on everyone's toes and shitting in their shoes.

You are saying that you dont like one flat tax, but are suggesting 5 others. I dont understand how any of your suggestions are in any way "better" than the costs you are complaining about.

Amarisen Gream wrote:
Only positive feed back and ideas please.

Dont be ridiculous. You can't have a debate with only positive feedback unless you are Vladimir Putin.


TL;DR: No

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#14 - 2014-07-25 08:36:30 UTC
no

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Marsha Mallow
#15 - 2014-07-25 08:41:43 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dont be ridiculous

Tempting to just put this in sig (in caps, obv) and spam every thread with Straight

ps @ OP: No

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#16 - 2014-07-25 08:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dont be ridiculous

Tempting to just put this in sig (in caps, obv) and spam every thread with Straight

ps @ OP: No


DO EET

Also I would reiterate my previous point regarding the OP;

No

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#17 - 2014-07-25 08:50:07 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Lol. A lot of "no"s. This is a discussion forum. If you cann't give more than a two letter word response, then you probably shouldn't reply.

Plus I never said my ideas needed to be implemented. They are simply ideas.
Also what labor force am I paying in a POS. Now I can understand a wear and tear cost on the machines., but I don't supply NPCs to a tower to make things. So no labor cost.
Also allowing a NPC system to tax every inch of New Eden is like saying, the UN can now tax everyone in the world because it can. I understand it is a game, and they needed a way to deflat the isk. What I'd like to happen here is a discussion on things that they could have done for an isk sink, but not a cookie cutter method or one size fits all.

If they went through and only charged the tax on hi/low sec industry but then doubled the null-sec SOV cost. The large blocs would ether A) rent more space. B) make more stuff to sell or tax members more or C) lose control of their space. Which means more things blowing up as people fight for control.

A single cookie-cutter tax system doesn't help anyone. The dust will settle soon, and the pre-crius issues will be the post-Crius issues.

Okay. Done ranting for now. Time for proper discussion in great than 2 letter responses.

No

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-07-25 08:54:18 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Lol. A lot of "no"s. This is a discussion forum. If you cann't give more than a two letter word response, then you probably shouldn't reply.

Plus I never said my ideas needed to be implemented. They are simply ideas.
Also what labor force am I paying in a POS. Now I can understand a wear and tear cost on the machines., but I don't supply NPCs to a tower to make things. So no labor cost.
Also allowing a NPC system to tax every inch of New Eden is like saying, the UN can now tax everyone in the world because it can. I understand it is a game, and they needed a way to deflat the isk. What I'd like to happen here is a discussion on things that they could have done for an isk sink, but not a cookie cutter method or one size fits all.

If they went through and only charged the tax on hi/low sec industry but then doubled the null-sec SOV cost. The large blocs would ether A) rent more space. B) make more stuff to sell or tax members more or C) lose control of their space. Which means more things blowing up as people fight for control.

A single cookie-cutter tax system doesn't help anyone. The dust will settle soon, and the pre-crius issues will be the post-Crius issues.

Okay. Done ranting for now. Time for proper discussion in great than 2 letter responses.

Saying no is a perfectly reasonable response. Its not their job to strike down your opinion, Its your job to convince them otherwise.
Quote:
Plus I never said my ideas needed to be implemented. They are simply ideas.
If that's the case why don't you go discuss this idea with a mirror. I'm sure the reception there will be more agreeable.

And on where is this tax coming from:
It can basically be seen as NPC tax for doing business on their property. Highsec/lowsec has empires, NPC null has pirates, even SOV owners pay a fee to concord to legitimize their claims. Capsuleers aren't the all-powerful rulers of new eden.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#19 - 2014-07-25 08:55:43 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
- 5 mil ISK tax for creating a thread in a wrong section of the forum;

That one would be a hell of an ISK sink.


I support this product and\or service.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-07-25 09:00:50 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
- 5 mil ISK tax for creating a thread in a wrong section of the forum;

That one would be a hell of an ISK sink.


I support this product and\or service.

Its not enough. How about a blood tax? After you've shiptoasted too much you simply become unable to perform basic cognitive funtions until you replenish again, and we donate the blood to science in hopes they can discover the cause and prevent others from following down the same path.
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