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[Crius] Consolidation feedback thread

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WheelOfEvE
The Wheel of EvE
#41 - 2014-07-18 22:16:41 UTC
In the Patch notes it says that Compressed Spoudmain will be 16m3, that seems a bit big compared to the other asteroids in the same size category of today.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2014-07-18 22:35:27 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!

What? That doesn't correlate to the patch notes. According the the patch notes only a BPO which is researched to ME 10 pre crius, will come out as perfect.

If they put it in to research pre crius to ME 9, then surely that is converted to ME 9% post crius. That is according to the patch notes anyway unless there is some kind of extra bonus I've missed.

from the patch notes

"Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered"

So if it is ME 5 when delivered, that should equal an ME -9% BPO when the job finishes.


Ah, it looks like that section of the patchnotes has gotten messed up. The line quoted is accurate, pricing and time stay constant, but it's not explaining level changes properly. The process as described to me today by the person who wrote the upgrade script is that all blueprints everywhere, including those currently in a job, will be increased using the described mapping (so 5-9 -> 9) during downtime, and then existing jobs will continue as normal, taking their full existing time to finish and delivering as many runs of improvement as they're queued up to do, capping at 10. Therefore an ME8 blueprint in research will be bumped to ME-9% as per the mapping, and then it will finish its current research run, which will add one at the end of the job, taking it to -10%. I'm pretty sure this is accurate, but my math has been rubbish all day :/ I'll try and get the patchnotes amended tomorrow so they make more sense!
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#43 - 2014-07-18 22:48:47 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!

What? That doesn't correlate to the patch notes. According the the patch notes only a BPO which is researched to ME 10 pre crius, will come out as perfect.

If they put it in to research pre crius to ME 9, then surely that is converted to ME 9% post crius. That is according to the patch notes anyway unless there is some kind of extra bonus I've missed.

from the patch notes

"Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered"

So if it is ME 5 when delivered, that should equal an ME -9% BPO when the job finishes.


Ah, it looks like that section of the patchnotes has gotten messed up. The line quoted is accurate, pricing and time stay constant, but it's not explaining level changes properly. The process as described to me today by the person who wrote the upgrade script is that all blueprints everywhere, including those currently in a job, will be increased using the described mapping (so 5-9 -> 9) during downtime, and then existing jobs will continue as normal, taking their full existing time to finish and delivering as many runs of improvement as they're queued up to do, capping at 10. Therefore an ME8 blueprint in research will be bumped to ME-9% as per the mapping, and then it will finish its current research run, which will add one at the end of the job, taking it to -10%. I'm pretty sure this is accurate, but my math has been rubbish all day :/ I'll try and get the patchnotes amended tomorrow so they make more sense!

Ok great, thanks for the fast response Greyscale. Seems like you guys are working flat at the moment so it is no wonder you make the occasional mistake.

That is very interesting then if indeed true. I was planning on getting everything to ME 10, but it seems that is not necessary now. The question is, how do they work out what your current level of the BPO is though, is it the level the BPO started research at, or is it the level at which the BPO would be if the job suddenly cancelled, and if so is that rounded up or down. Gets kind of complex in this scenario.

Will wait for the updated patch notes before committing anything else to the research ques anyway then.
Josclyn Verreuil
Dark 0rder.
#44 - 2014-07-18 22:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Josclyn Verreuil
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!

What? That doesn't correlate to the patch notes. According the the patch notes only a BPO which is researched to ME 10 pre crius, will come out as perfect.

If they put it in to research pre crius to ME 9, then surely that is converted to ME 9% post crius. That is according to the patch notes anyway unless there is some kind of extra bonus I've missed.

from the patch notes

"Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered"

So if it is ME 5 when delivered, that should equal an ME -9% BPO when the job finishes.


According to what's been said in thread, the blueprints will convert in progress, then increment when delivered. As such:

-I put a ME 5 blueprint into the oven, researching to ME 6 (spanning crius update).

-Crius goes live, converting the ME5 blueprint to ME9, with the job still going

-Job finishes as originally scheduled and is delivered, +1'ing the ME to 10


At least that's as I understand it. Note that's a bit different than most folks seemed to be assuming the in-job transition would happen, which is exactly why I kept asking for the details :p



Edit: Whoops, missed that the thread hit a 3rd page, but it looks like what I described is inline with what was said above.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-07-18 22:53:49 UTC
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!

What? That doesn't correlate to the patch notes. According the the patch notes only a BPO which is researched to ME 10 pre crius, will come out as perfect.

If they put it in to research pre crius to ME 9, then surely that is converted to ME 9% post crius. That is according to the patch notes anyway unless there is some kind of extra bonus I've missed.

from the patch notes

"Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered"

So if it is ME 5 when delivered, that should equal an ME -9% BPO when the job finishes.


According to what's been said in thread, the blueprints will convert in progress, then increment when delivered. As such:

-I put a ME 5 blueprint into the oven, researching to ME 6 (spanning crius update).

-Crius goes live, converting the ME5 blueprint to ME9, with the job still going

-Job finishes as originally scheduled and is delivered, +1'ing the ME to 10


At least that's as I understand it. Note that's a bit different than most folks seemed to be assuming the in-job transition would happen, which is exactly why I kept asking for the details :p



Edit: Whoops, missed that the thread hit a 3rd page, but it looks like what I described is inline with what was said above.

So what is confusing, is what happens if the BPO is in research from ME 0 to ME 10. How it has been explained, I am guessing that will be converted to ME0, and then the ten increments will bump it up to ME 10 upon completion.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-07-18 22:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Ah, it looks like that section of the patchnotes has gotten messed up. The line quoted is accurate, pricing and time stay constant, but it's not explaining level changes properly. The process as described to me today by the person who wrote the upgrade script is that all blueprints everywhere, including those currently in a job, will be increased using the described mapping (so 5-9 -> 9) during downtime, and then existing jobs will continue as normal, taking their full existing time to finish and delivering as many runs of improvement as they're queued up to do, capping at 10. Therefore an ME8 blueprint in research will be bumped to ME-9% as per the mapping, and then it will finish its current research run, which will add one at the end of the job, taking it to -10%. I'm pretty sure this is accurate, but my math has been rubbish all day :/ I'll try and get the patchnotes amended tomorrow so they make more sense!



ha ! that's nice. time to cancel some jobs and start some other jobs.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2014-07-18 23:02:41 UTC  |  Edited by: TigerXtrm
I'm still not entirely happy with the Job Cost tooltip. The new industry window was meant to be intuitive and clear for new players without them having to Google everything, right? And the tooltips are meant to enhance the NPE, right? So please do as they are intended and make this part of industry clearer.

Currently the job cost tooltip shows the system index and the tax percentage, but fails to explain how either contribute to the final price of the job.

1. How does the system cost index influence the job cost. I know this is probably too complicated to explain in detail in a tooltip, but a condensed version would be helpful.

2. Tax percentage is displayed, but it should be made clear that this means 10% tax over the estimated value of the input materials.

Also it's good that the skills in tooltips are now clickable. But it would be even better if the tool tip could display what skill is responsible for what percentage without having to open a new window to check.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#48 - 2014-07-18 23:05:42 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
I'm still not entirely happy with the Job Cost tooltip. The new industry window was meant to be intuitive and clear for new players without them having to Google everything, right? And the tooltips are meant to enhance the NPE, right? So please do as they are intended and make this part of industry clearer.

Currently the job cost tooltip shows the system index and the tax percentage, but fails to explain how either contribute to the final price of the job.

1. How does the system cost index influence the job cost. I know this is probably to complicated to explain in detail in a tooltip, but a condensed version would be helpful.

2. Tax percentage is displayed, but it should be made clear that this means 10% tax over the estimated value of the input materials.

Also it's good that the skills in tooltips are now clickable. But it would be even better if the tool tip could display what skill is responsible for what percentage without having to open a new window to check.

They will be updating the UI again later next week and will continue to improve it. They have a long list of stuff they still need to work on.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2014-07-18 23:08:24 UTC
Salpun wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
I'm still not entirely happy with the Job Cost tooltip. The new industry window was meant to be intuitive and clear for new players without them having to Google everything, right? And the tooltips are meant to enhance the NPE, right? So please do as they are intended and make this part of industry clearer.

Currently the job cost tooltip shows the system index and the tax percentage, but fails to explain how either contribute to the final price of the job.

1. How does the system cost index influence the job cost. I know this is probably to complicated to explain in detail in a tooltip, but a condensed version would be helpful.

2. Tax percentage is displayed, but it should be made clear that this means 10% tax over the estimated value of the input materials.

Also it's good that the skills in tooltips are now clickable. But it would be even better if the tool tip could display what skill is responsible for what percentage without having to open a new window to check.

They will be updating the UI again later next week and will continue to improve it. They have a long list of stuff they still need to work on.



Good to know Cool

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#50 - 2014-07-18 23:16:01 UTC
As a note to the "show info" not registering the ME level bug....i have put the blueprint (t2 damage module) into the Industry UI, and it shows the exact same quantities as the "show info" tab shows. Does this mean "show info" is broken still. or that T2 bpc's are still out of whack? (also posted in known issues thread)
Meadowvale
0rder of the Golden Dawn
#51 - 2014-07-18 23:20:42 UTC
Re: teams - are teams all going to start in the Chartering window of UI or will some teams be pre-loaded/active in various systems to give everyone a chance to use them before the big power blocs outbid the smaller guys ?
Josclyn Verreuil
Dark 0rder.
#52 - 2014-07-18 23:27:26 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:

So what is confusing, is what happens if the BPO is in research from ME 0 to ME 10. How it has been explained, I am guessing that will be converted to ME0, and then the ten increments will bump it up to ME 10 upon completion.


That's exactly how I read it, since blueprints *are* whatever they started as until they finish (which is why if you cancel a job it returns in its original state, regardless of elapsed time).
Darkblad
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-07-18 23:29:28 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
From the Reprocessing Feedback Thread:
Darkblad wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Edit, while I'm at it: Two compressed variants contain raw ore quantities that are no multiple of 100 pre Crius - Crokite (1250 units) and Pyroxeres (49.950 units). I didn't get to spare some on Sisi before deployment and can't test. However, adjusting the quantities of compressed variants results in values a basic ore batch contains. This would mean the loss of half a batch for each block when Crius goes live - if there's no other adjustment, which I can't check myself.
Still wondering about this. I've created a sheet to show the impact of the "half future batch" within currently existing blocks.
The new mirror didn't convert TQ blocks. One block still is one block on Sisi. What is planned to be done to them when crius gets deployed? How are those two special ores to be converted?
It appears like Sisi ran a conversion script to convert existing blocks to Crius quantities. This time I had one block of Pyroxeres and Crokite ready. Just made it to check for them now that Sisi was up (just a few moments before the emergency restart)
The results are like this.

12 compressed Crokite which is like 1200 units of raw ore compressed (12 x 100)
500 compressed Pyroxeres, which is like 50,000 units of raw ore compressed (500 x 100)

If this script will run during Crius deployment, the result will be:

Get 50 units of Pyroxeres (within a compressed block), as today 49,950 units of raw Pyroxeres are required to compress
Lose 50 units of Crokite (that were within a compressed block) as today 1,250 units of raw Crokite are required to compress.

(I first mentioned this possible issue on March 31., right after the change of compressed ore being created by using 100 raw ore)
The last mirror reset the blocks I saved to 1 again - and it looks like the script was run another time. But this time the numbers are in favor of Crokite too. No change for Pyroxeres, it got converted to 500 blocks. The single compressed Crokite results in:

13 compressed Crokite, which is like 1,300 units of raw ore compressed (13 x 100).

NPE – ISD – RIP
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#54 - 2014-07-18 23:47:27 UTC
Somewhere Greyscale said that the 'old' -4/-4 T2 bpc's would be more efficient after the patch...but atm on SiSi, when i put on into the Industry screen it takes an extra 25% MORE materials than it does currently on TQ (this is for a lowslot damage module)

Something seems a bit off...seeing as the new 0-0 unresearched T2 bpo taks the exact same material quantities. Good show CCP, good show.
GreenSeed
#55 - 2014-07-18 23:50:53 UTC
the Prospect frigate is still crap. the only change this patch is making is allowing it to enter VG mining sites... hurray!

its still crap on any other place, which would be fine if it wasn't for the Venture being able to get everywhere. this gate limitation is enough to make the Prospect useless, regardless of much better it is with its base warpspeed, lowslots, mining yield, cloaking, tank, etc etc... not knowing if a gate will allow you in is enough to make me disregard it completely.

i know you are focusing on the industry stuff, but someone did change the gate permits on incursions, so that means someone is there changing stuff on this frigate.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-07-19 00:12:27 UTC
you should probably reconsider the ranks for capmods, fighters and fighter bombers

you essentially trippled or quadrupled the possible output of these items. they are advanced stuff and making them should take time and money. now it only takes money.

it's a good thing that it takes a while to rebuild, refit and redrone a lost cap fleet.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#57 - 2014-07-19 00:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Second character training not working on Sisi at the moment.

Nope it works. Hit the wrong button.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Circumstantial Evidence
#58 - 2014-07-19 00:58:01 UTC
looking at v8.46.812372

Reprocessing UI tooltip text: "Warning: non-repackaged and valuable item"
should be "...OR valuable item."

Reprocessing UI tooltip text for items is not always consistent with item state.

I first reported some inconsistencies on the reprocessing thread here.

100mm Steel Armor Plates I display a warning icon, when in repackaged or non-repackaged state.
And... I don't think it should be considered valuable.
(The ISK estimate is 26,000... would it only be considered valuable on the test server?)

Tech 1 shuttles display the "valuable" warning.
Special Edition shuttles do not display the "valuable" warning
- (possibly expected behavior, since they also display "estimated price: unavailable" on SISI.)
Special Edition shuttles do not display a warning, even if "non-repackaged" / assembled.
Special Edition ship: Gnosis does not display a warning, even if "non-repackaged" / assembled, with modules installed on it.
Raven Powers
Rubber Chicken Bombers
#59 - 2014-07-19 01:12:58 UTC
Under the station management screen, clicking industry settings does nothing. (In a station owned by your corporation)
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#60 - 2014-07-19 01:44:10 UTC
Raven Powers wrote:
Under the station management screen, clicking industry settings does nothing. (In a station owned by your corporation)



It works for me, do you have station manager role?