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[Crius] Consolidation feedback thread

First post
Author
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-07-19 02:48:00 UTC
Ty for the patch notes

There is still one thing that I really don't understand

POS Intensive Array gives 54% - Minmatar Outpost 52% ie: one costs a few million isk the other costs BILLIONS

To get a minmatar outpost to be equal to the POS you have to add a lvl 1 upgrade - so add more billions to the cost and then its only EQUAL to the POS intensive array. Still nothing better after shelling out 10s of billions.

It just seems to me that anything that takes Billions in resources should have a higher output than something that is in the millions.

Dont get me wrong I actually like that POS's can now have refineries that actually matter and are useful....i remember playing back in the day when we did not live in stationed system and had to compress/haul stuff many jumps.

I just think the Minmatar outpost should have as a minimum the best refining that a POS could have as its basic feature. One would think that a huge structure would have better resources than a POS. And then the upgrades make it better from that point. Not start from behind and play catch up to get to equal status with a POS module.



Sentry Girl
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2014-07-19 05:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentry Girl
questions :

- it is being discussed a form of compensation for people that have researched some industry skills that are no longer necessary. How about those who have trained anchoring 5 in order to be able to have pos defenders ? Maybe it could be transformed in some sort of a bonus for turrets ?

- the current change of copy time is quite a hit for those who have expensive titan BPOs because it will crush the market of titan bpcs. Right now copying a titan bpo takes 4 months, after Crius it will be 2 weeks or less, causing an inflation of titan bpcs on contracts, driving the price really low and making a titan bpo... well not worthless but really an useless commodity since it will stop generating any profit esp. compared to its 65 bil+ price. Maybe some changes in titan building should be also taken into account so it will drive up the market again ?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#63 - 2014-07-19 06:25:08 UTC
WheelOfEvE wrote:
In the Patch notes it says that Compressed Spoudmain will be 16m3, that seems a bit big compared to the other asteroids in the same size category of today.
16m³ is a mineral compression ratio of around 27 to 30 (depending on the variation) before reprocessing, which is in line with the rations of the other ores.

44,271 units of Minerals in (basic) Spodumain: 442.71m³ / 16 = 27,67

NPEISDRIP

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#64 - 2014-07-19 06:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Submitted a bug report, While doing the NPE with only one one personal job able to be started. I delivered the job while in warp back to the station and when I tried to start the next job the Industrial interface had locked up with out clearing the job i delivered.

Cleared when I opened and closed the window but something is messed up.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Yvonne Paaltomo
Chanuur
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2014-07-19 09:26:39 UTC
Amarr station with Advanced Plant Platform description mentions a 60% reduction in T2 ships. However the Job duration explanation mentions a 30% and a 43% reduction which made it confusing untill you calculate (1-0.3)*(1-0.43)=0.399
Alexander McKeon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#66 - 2014-07-19 09:39:26 UTC
Maybe I missed it, but is anything special happening to the BPCs which are undergoing invention when the patch hits? Do they get the +6 & conversion treatment, or are they simply delivered as though they'd been invented entirely under the Crius system?
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#67 - 2014-07-19 13:29:05 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!

What? That doesn't correlate to the patch notes. According the the patch notes only a BPO which is researched to ME 10 pre crius, will come out as perfect.

If they put it in to research pre crius to ME 9, then surely that is converted to ME 9% post crius. That is according to the patch notes anyway unless there is some kind of extra bonus I've missed.

from the patch notes

"Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered"

So if it is ME 5 when delivered, that should equal an ME -9% BPO when the job finishes.


Ah, it looks like that section of the patchnotes has gotten messed up. The line quoted is accurate, pricing and time stay constant, but it's not explaining level changes properly. The process as described to me today by the person who wrote the upgrade script is that all blueprints everywhere, including those currently in a job, will be increased using the described mapping (so 5-9 -> 9) during downtime, and then existing jobs will continue as normal, taking their full existing time to finish and delivering as many runs of improvement as they're queued up to do, capping at 10. Therefore an ME8 blueprint in research will be bumped to ME-9% as per the mapping, and then it will finish its current research run, which will add one at the end of the job, taking it to -10%. I'm pretty sure this is accurate, but my math has been rubbish all day :/ I'll try and get the patchnotes amended tomorrow so they make more sense!

Ok great, thanks for the fast response Greyscale. Seems like you guys are working flat at the moment so it is no wonder you make the occasional mistake.

That is very interesting then if indeed true. I was planning on getting everything to ME 10, but it seems that is not necessary now. The question is, how do they work out what your current level of the BPO is though, is it the level the BPO started research at, or is it the level at which the BPO would be if the job suddenly cancelled, and if so is that rounded up or down. Gets kind of complex in this scenario.

Will wait for the updated patch notes before committing anything else to the research ques anyway then.


The level it was at when it was installed.

Medalyn Isis wrote:
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!

What? That doesn't correlate to the patch notes. According the the patch notes only a BPO which is researched to ME 10 pre crius, will come out as perfect.

If they put it in to research pre crius to ME 9, then surely that is converted to ME 9% post crius. That is according to the patch notes anyway unless there is some kind of extra bonus I've missed.

from the patch notes

"Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered"

So if it is ME 5 when delivered, that should equal an ME -9% BPO when the job finishes.


According to what's been said in thread, the blueprints will convert in progress, then increment when delivered. As such:

-I put a ME 5 blueprint into the oven, researching to ME 6 (spanning crius update).

-Crius goes live, converting the ME5 blueprint to ME9, with the job still going

-Job finishes as originally scheduled and is delivered, +1'ing the ME to 10


At least that's as I understand it. Note that's a bit different than most folks seemed to be assuming the in-job transition would happen, which is exactly why I kept asking for the details :p



Edit: Whoops, missed that the thread hit a 3rd page, but it looks like what I described is inline with what was said above.

So what is confusing, is what happens if the BPO is in research from ME 0 to ME 10. How it has been explained, I am guessing that will be converted to ME0, and then the ten increments will bump it up to ME 10 upon completion.


Correct.

Yvonne Paaltomo
Chanuur
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2014-07-19 14:03:24 UTC
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!

What? That doesn't correlate to the patch notes. According the the patch notes only a BPO which is researched to ME 10 pre crius, will come out as perfect.

If they put it in to research pre crius to ME 9, then surely that is converted to ME 9% post crius. That is according to the patch notes anyway unless there is some kind of extra bonus I've missed.

from the patch notes

"Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered"

So if it is ME 5 when delivered, that should equal an ME -9% BPO when the job finishes.


According to what's been said in thread, the blueprints will convert in progress, then increment when delivered. As such:

-I put a ME 5 blueprint into the oven, researching to ME 6 (spanning crius update).

-Crius goes live, converting the ME5 blueprint to ME9, with the job still going

-Job finishes as originally scheduled and is delivered, +1'ing the ME to 10


At least that's as I understand it. Note that's a bit different than most folks seemed to be assuming the in-job transition would happen, which is exactly why I kept asking for the details :p



Edit: Whoops, missed that the thread hit a 3rd page, but it looks like what I described is inline with what was said above.


Although that seems to be true, that seems wrong. A blueprint that was researched to me 9 will be me-9% after patch. A blueprint that is in research from 5 to 6 (and thus had 33% less research) will have me-10%.
Bonus tip: get a me 2 blueprint, research it to me 5 during the patch, get a me-10% blueprint for only half the research.

Maybe you should have went for the other option, if you put in a blueprint from me 2 to me 5, you'll end up with a me-9% blueprint. If you cancel it, you get a me-7%. Sure, research from 5 to 6 will yield nothing, but neither did it for those that put in 33% more time earlier....
iwannadig
Doomheim
#69 - 2014-07-19 14:04:26 UTC
I have a couple of things about manufacturing UI:
1. Jobs tab: can we have an item "Owned by me or corp" in addition to "Owned by me" and "Owned by corp"?
2. Upper panel should be collapsable, not unly bottom one. I have 1366x768 resolution at my note, so this part of window occupies the most part of the screen, very frustrating.
Keisha Malthari
Kuzani Innovations
#70 - 2014-07-19 14:18:23 UTC
After testing this morning with a new POS, found out that i have to be in a 3000 meter range of a assembly Array or laboratory to acces it

Thought that this range was removed if your were in the POS buble.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#71 - 2014-07-19 14:26:07 UTC
Keisha Malthari wrote:
After testing this morning with a new POS, found out that i have to be in a 3000 meter range of a assembly Array or laboratory to acces it

Thought that this range was removed if your were in the POS buble.



From the "Known issues" thread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4769087#post4769087

Keisha Malthari
Kuzani Innovations
#72 - 2014-07-19 14:30:44 UTC
thanks, missed that one reading the forums.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#73 - 2014-07-19 17:26:12 UTC
Can the reprocessing window be given a prediction mode. Figuring out what the ore in your cargo hold will refine to without doing the calculation your self would be a great add.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#74 - 2014-07-19 17:59:51 UTC
Is multiple job delivery going to be fixed before release? Doesn't work on SiSi.

Can select multiple jobs, but hitting deliver only delivers the top one.

Can deliver as many jobs as you like at once on TQ; removing bulk deliver adds a new clickfest.

--

Maruk Ihnati
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#75 - 2014-07-19 18:05:10 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Maruk Ihnati wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:

Also, since SiSi is still not up.

Are you absolutely sure that all of my already invented T2 BPC's will not actually cost me more materials to produce after tuesday? Or is that just another guess? Last time i looked on SiSi, everything used 20-50% more than it did on TQ. Or are we just going to have to trust you on this one?

-edit- Can we trust the "show info" yet?



This. And some T2 BPC had 100% material increase on SiSi.

What is it CCP?


The Show Info is now correct with one outstanding issue (ME levels are not correctly updating the material requirements).

As to material requirements on blueprints, whatever is on Singularity at this point is what will go out in Crius (final updates are happening as we speak).

Also as CCP Nullabor stated, the entire team is here for July and into August to cover the Industry release.


I am now on SISI, still100% increase.

BPC's I had invented are at -8% ME and still have double the material requirements.

All decryptors give the same outcome for said BPC's.

Thing is, I really don't want prices to go up as the elasticity of this is not that great. I want volume.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#76 - 2014-07-19 18:10:10 UTC
Ydnari wrote:
Is multiple job delivery going to be fixed before release? Doesn't work on SiSi.

Can select multiple jobs, but hitting deliver only delivers the top one.

Can deliver as many jobs as you like at once on TQ; removing bulk deliver adds a new clickfest.

Does the deliver all button at the bottom work for you? Or are you trying to deliver a sub set.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Hashi Lebwohl
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#77 - 2014-07-19 18:16:27 UTC
BUG: clone jumping from a clone without a Beancounter implant to one with a BX-604 did not update the production time - remained at 24% rather than the expected 27%. Undocking and changing systems did not resolve the issue but re-logging did.

Plus, Any chance you could make skills + implants for production time reduction additive rather than accumulative.

ie 20% industry + 5% advanced industry + 4% BX-604 = 29%

rather than

20% + (100-20)% x 5% + (100-20-4)% x 4% = 27%.
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#78 - 2014-07-19 18:20:28 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Ydnari wrote:
Is multiple job delivery going to be fixed before release? Doesn't work on SiSi.

Can select multiple jobs, but hitting deliver only delivers the top one.

Can deliver as many jobs as you like at once on TQ; removing bulk deliver adds a new clickfest.

Does the deliver all button at the bottom work for you? Or are you trying to deliver a sub set.


I didn't see that button since it's not styled like the big flashing DELIVER button that's blinking for attention.

But I want a subset; think corp jobs; not all are mine, don't want to deliver all.

--

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#79 - 2014-07-19 18:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Can we get an on route highlight like the market has for jobs.

One use case is to see if where the items are can support the type of manufacturing you are trying to do.

Stations show info does not show what type of industry is available. The all facility list is not all facilities.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#80 - 2014-07-19 18:35:39 UTC
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
BUG: clone jumping from a clone without a Beancounter implant to one with a BX-604 did not update the production time - remained at 24% rather than the expected 27%. Undocking and changing systems did not resolve the issue but re-logging did.

Plus, Any chance you could make skills + implants for production time reduction additive rather than accumulative.

ie 20% industry + 5% advanced industry + 4% BX-604 = 29%

rather than

20% + (100-20)% x 5% + (100-20-4)% x 4% = 27%.


That would make them inconsistent with how every other skill works.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones