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Interdictor Bubbling on Station Undock OR Allow Smartbombs Again

Author
Kurita I
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-07-09 21:17:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Kurita I
Interdictors bubbling the undock on NPC stations is one of the lamest tactics in this game right now. They undock and wait out their session change timer. Bubble the undock and re-dock never once becoming killable. How is this not an abuse of the game?

Currently the solution is to bomb the undock on the station. However this is not possible on certain stations because the bombers can not position themselves while cloaked because of the station dock range.

To top it off smartbombs in 0.0 can't activate next to a station. (for some god unknown reason) This makes killing the bubbles nearly impossible.

How can CCP allow 1 single inderdictor to lock down a system for an entire group of pilots with the pilots having no way to react?

This is a baffling mechanic that has gone on far too long now.
Ryuu Towryk
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-07-09 21:24:21 UTC
Kurita I wrote:
Interdictors bubbling the undock on NPC stations is one of the lamest tactics in this game right now. They undock and wait out their session change timer. Bubble the undock and re-dock never once becoming killable. How is this not an abuse of the game?

Currently the solution is to bomb the undock on the station. However this is not possible on certain stations because the bombers can not position themselves while cloaked because of the station dock range.

To top it off smartbombs in 0.0 can't activate next to a station. (for some god unknown reason) This makes killing the bubbles nearly impossible.

How can CCP allow 1 single inderdictor to lock down a system for entire group of pilots with the pilots having no way to react?

This is a baffling mechanic that has gone on far too long now.


If you can, put the guy on your watch list and leave while they aren't on. It's how I usually get out of station camps.
The other being asploded, of course. Pirate Yes, it is a lame tactic. But it is what it is.
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-07-09 21:40:54 UTC
From the goons

"...HOBOJAMMING

Adding to our arsenal of methods to **** with NPC dwellers, let's not forget hobojamming: where an interdictor pilot repeatedly undocks, bubbles, and redocks as an enemy fleet helplessly tries to use their capitals. Capital-heavy alliances are particularly vulnerable to this when staging in NPC territory, so when we visit Delve let's make sure to have hobojammers in PR-8CA (where PASTA currently stage) and KFIE (where NCdot are staging); other capital midpoint locations the enemy uses are A-ELE and Z3V. One pilot with a stack of interdictors and a grudge can ruin an entire fleet's evening. 
..."
Mittani

"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."

Kurita I
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-07-09 21:58:47 UTC
"One pilot with a stack of interdictors and a grudge can ruin an entire fleet's evening."

I think this sums up the problem nicely.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#5 - 2014-07-09 22:42:49 UTC

First off, smart bombs on the station / gate were removed for a reason. Put a few smartbombing BS's on the undock of a station, and they can effectively destroy any sub BC ship before it can redock. This would be bad, especially given how station guns work now.

Next, your bomber doesn't need to be cloaked if you control the undock.

The real solution is to bring back aggression timers on prohibitive dictor bubbles. It used to be, that if you attempted to warp while inside a dictor/hictor bubble, you gave the pilot an aggro timer that prevented jumping/docking. Bring that back, and the problem is completely solved.

Do NOT, under any circumstances, bring back the "you launch a bubble and get an aggro timer" mechanic though. If someone isn't actively attempting to warp in the bubble, it should not give an aggro timer.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-07-10 00:31:19 UTC
Are you serious?

First of all, the fact you can't use bombers because you can't keep them cloaked up until the exact moment you fire is sad. You might want to re-evaluate your strategy.

Secondly, are you telling me you can't control the undock of your home station? In lo sec, pirate alliances love to fight on their home undock because they can provide a nearly unlimited supply of replacement ships, and switch ships or get safe very quickly.

Finally, are you telling me that you can't get out of your carriers and dreads long enough to get into some alpha ships and just remove them from grid the next time they undock? I've played docking games with people who thought they could just redock fast enough, but if you have a sufficiently high scan res they can't.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-07-10 00:39:05 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Are you serious?

First of all, the fact you can't use bombers because you can't keep them cloaked up until the exact moment you fire is sad. You might want to re-evaluate your strategy.

Secondly, are you telling me you can't control the undock of your home station? In lo sec, pirate alliances love to fight on their home undock because they can provide a nearly unlimited supply of replacement ships, and switch ships or get safe very quickly.

Finally, are you telling me that you can't get out of your carriers and dreads long enough to get into some alpha ships and just remove them from grid the next time they undock? I've played docking games with people who thought they could just redock fast enough, but if you have a sufficiently high scan res they can't.



How does one control the undock against someone who presses one button and redocks, repeatedly? And who has a large stack of dictors ready and waiting even if they do manage to lose one? And, frequently, their med clone set to that very same station as well?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-07-10 00:44:19 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Are you serious?

First of all, the fact you can't use bombers because you can't keep them cloaked up until the exact moment you fire is sad. You might want to re-evaluate your strategy.

Secondly, are you telling me you can't control the undock of your home station? In lo sec, pirate alliances love to fight on their home undock because they can provide a nearly unlimited supply of replacement ships, and switch ships or get safe very quickly.

Finally, are you telling me that you can't get out of your carriers and dreads long enough to get into some alpha ships and just remove them from grid the next time they undock? I've played docking games with people who thought they could just redock fast enough, but if you have a sufficiently high scan res they can't.



How does one control the undock against someone who presses one button and redocks, repeatedly? And who has a large stack of dictors ready and waiting even if they do manage to lose one? And, frequently, their med clone set to that very same station as well?


How did they get into your system in the first place? Maybe you should be covering all gates with mountains of large t2 mobile disruptors and keeping an eye on them.

And beyond that, you just keep blowing up the interdictors until they are gone. It really is that simple.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#9 - 2014-07-10 00:55:26 UTC
Sure, it is a lame tactic. But, it only works if: you lack the willpower and resolve to kill the offending ship. But I think you left out something: the offender is not alone, if they were, the extra distance to travel out of the bubble would not be an issue. You don;t need to be cloaked if the guy is alone to launch a bomb their direction.

While I would love to smart bomb the entrance of any station, I understand why they don't allow it.

You should simply ask CCP to add a backdoor to stations. That might achieve better results.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#10 - 2014-07-10 05:12:18 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Sure, it is a lame tactic. But, it only works if: you lack the willpower and resolve to kill the offending ship. But I think you left out something: the offender is not alone, if they were, the extra distance to travel out of the bubble would not be an issue. You don;t need to be cloaked if the guy is alone to launch a bomb their direction.

It's not possible to kill the ship without bombs or smart bombs.
They aren't there to kill, they're there to keep caps from coming out for the other side; a probe's range is a very, very long ways for a cap.
You can't be decloaked for the shot if you intend to actually hit them.
Thorr VonAsgard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-07-10 09:11:38 UTC
It's AOE, so make it like smartbomb.
When using a SB, even if you are alone in a safe, you got a weapon timer.

You miss blink ? Come and play with us at EVE-Lotteries.com !

Envie de fraicheur ? Frugu, le forum fruité est fait pour toi !

Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-07-10 09:40:08 UTC
Kurita I wrote:
Interdictors bubbling the undock on NPC stations is one of the lamest tactics in this game right now. They undock and wait out their session change timer. Bubble the undock and re-dock never once becoming killable. How is this not an abuse of the game?

Currently the solution is to bomb the undock on the station. However this is not possible on certain stations because the bombers can not position themselves while cloaked because of the station dock range.

To top it off smartbombs in 0.0 can't activate next to a station. (for some god unknown reason) This makes killing the bubbles nearly impossible.

How can CCP allow 1 single inderdictor to lock down a system for an entire group of pilots with the pilots having no way to react?

This is a baffling mechanic that has gone on far too long now.

if smartbombing was enabled on station would'nt it be abused in the exact same mode?
Kurita I
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-07-10 14:02:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kurita I
masternerdguy wrote:
Are you serious?


Yes. You have no idea what you are talking about.

masternerdguy wrote:
First of all, the fact you can't use bombers because you can't keep them cloaked up until the exact moment you fire is sad. You might want to re-evaluate your strategy.


Sometimes being cloaked is not an issue. However many times the person doing the interdictor bubbling will also run an unprobable sniper ship like a tornado or loki and pops bombers if they are not cloaked. Also the bombing itself must be timed perfectly with the fleet escaping the station because even if you blow up the bubble the interdictor comes out every 20-30 seconds and it will be back up right after you destroy it. It takes multiple bombers in position to stop this tactic and yes normally sitting without moving in uncloaked bombers is a good way to die.

masternerdguy wrote:
Secondly, are you telling me you can't control the undock of your home station? In lo sec, pirate alliances love to fight on their home undock because they can provide a nearly unlimited supply of replacement ships, and switch ships or get safe very quickly.


This statement is just blatantly off. The undock can be perfectly in control and the interdictor CAN NOT BE KILLED. He undocks... waits out his timer..... bubble.... dock. You can not lock this person before they dock.

masternerdguy wrote:
Finally, are you telling me that you can't get out of your carriers and dreads long enough to get into some alpha ships and just remove them from grid the next time they undock? I've played docking games with people who thought they could just redock fast enough, but if you have a sufficiently high scan res they can't.


Same as above. No scan res will get you high enough to catch this person. The server ticks are too slow.
Kurita I
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-07-10 14:05:47 UTC
Sara Tosa wrote:
if smartbombing was enabled on station would'nt it be abused in the exact same mode?


If smartbombs hit anything they will give an aggression timer. So it would not be an issue to kill a smartbomber compared to a bubbler who can dock immediately.

Also I need to say that smart-bombing radius should NOT be changed in low-sec and high-sec I am purely talking about 0.0 where bubbling can happen.
Kurita I
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-07-10 14:08:20 UTC
Also I think it is important to note that this tactic is a barrier to 0.0 entry for new entities.

Sov holding entities are doing this tactic to NPC 0.0 alliances.

The NPC alliances can not do the same tactic back because they can not dock in the sov holders station.

With no viable way to stop the tactic it is a blatant advantage to the sov holder.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#16 - 2014-07-10 14:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
Kurita I wrote:
Also I think it is important to note that this tactic is a barrier to 0.0 entry for new entities.

Sov holding entities are doing this tactic to NPC 0.0 alliances.

The NPC alliances can not do the same tactic back because they can not dock in the sov holders station.

With no viable way to stop the tactic it is a blatant advantage to the sov holder.


there's a cost you have to pay to have and keep sov.

OP, would bombing (stealth bomber) interdictor bubble followed by fleetwarp work?
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-07-10 14:42:26 UTC
Last time I checked you could just fly away from the station to get out of the bubble, if he chases you get your friends to kill him with you off station.
TheMercenaryKing
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-07-10 15:17:09 UTC
It would be great if launching an interdiction bubble acted like weapons and prevented people from jumping/docking.
Kurita I
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-07-10 21:25:17 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


The real solution is to bring back aggression timers on prohibitive dictor bubbles. It used to be, that if you attempted to warp while inside a dictor/hictor bubble, you gave the pilot an aggro timer that prevented jumping/docking. Bring that back, and the problem is completely solved.

Do NOT, under any circumstances, bring back the "you launch a bubble and get an aggro timer" mechanic though. If someone isn't actively attempting to warp in the bubble, it should not give an aggro timer.


I think this is a perfect solution. That way interdictors can still bubble a gate and jump through to the other side. But it would destroy their ability to spam bubbles on station once someone warped inside the bubble.

I definitely don't think just launching a bubble should give an aggro timer.

Or like I said in my subject we could simply eliminate the smartbomb radius rule in 0.0. I would still love an explanation on why this exists in 0.0 and how it would possibly be abusive.
Iain Cariaba
#20 - 2014-07-10 21:52:35 UTC
Kurita I wrote:
I would still love an explanation on why this exists in 0.0 and how it would possibly be abusive.

Really? You can't see a fleet of SBing battleships sitting on an undock wiping everything that undocks as soon as the invul timer is gone? You really can't see that.
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