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Low/null sec gate to gate warping questions.
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Rascal Jackson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-07-04 12:38:01 UTC
I get it, it is a bad idea. Being that I dont have a ton of experience in such areas, I am curious as to why. I made a break for nullsec, and made it just fine, even with multiple bubble camps, and that makes me curious. I get that you shouldnt warp to zero, but what is the issue with warping to, say 50km if you have a cloak? (Cov Ops) Warping to 30km/50km worked like a charm through 4 bubble camps, so maybe I am overlooking something.

Also, on one of them I landed just inside of a bubble (likely pulled me out of warp, since I was a bit further off than planned) but since I was cloaked, I just slow boated out of it. I saw multiple camps with drones everywhere, so that is likely the reason, but can I just quickly get away from those in a small frigate? If I was within 14.3AU I knew there would be bubbles before entering warp, but even from farther away I just dscanned while flying, so I knew what I was landing in, and was ready to make a break if needed.

Is the "dont gate to gate" just general advice in case you land on a can, in a bubble, and just so happen to not be able to get away fast enough, and an instalock gets you? Or is there something else? Thanks!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-07-04 12:41:09 UTC
You've pretty much got the right idea.

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-07-04 12:54:01 UTC
If there's a bubble on grid with your destination when you enter warp, you'll land in the bubble IF your warp path intersects the bubble.

Warping gate-to-gate is a very predictable warp path, for somebody to place a bubble.

Warping @0, 50 or whatever makes no difference.

The exact point that you will land within the bubble is a little less predictable (iirc) but something could be waiting there to decloak you.

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Rascal Jackson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-07-04 12:56:50 UTC
I get that for people without a cloak, but it seemed to me that unless the bubble was filled with cans/drones/whatever, I would simply land in the bubble, cruise out of it, and jump in the gate. It was much worse once I got to the other side, and saw the 2-3 Sabers coming through and spreading out trying to decloak me.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2014-07-04 12:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Abrazzar
So if I have a bookmark 255km perpendicular away to the gate to gate warp I could warp there and avoid a bubble set on the gate to gate path? Or will the angle be too small to avoid the bubble radius?

EDIT: Wait, should be 155km so I'm still on grid and within warp distance.

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-07-04 13:06:21 UTC
A part from bubbles, another danger of warping gate-to-gate are smartbombing ships. This applies to lowsec, too.

Typically a smartbomber will sit around 10km from a gate, again in-line with the warp-path from another gate or station. The cannot smarbomb the gate itself, they need to sit at range.

He may be cloaked, and decloak as soon as he sees you on dscan. Smartbombs don't need a lock, so they can be activated immediately after decloaking.

A single smartbombing battleship can insta-kill a frigate and pod if you warp 'through' them. Yes, smartbombs will hit while you're exiting warp.

In this case, warping at range will keep you alive. It's even safer to have a 'tactical bookmark' 200-300km off the gate. In the latter case, you may safely warp from the bookmark to the gate if you're sure the smartbomber isn't in-line with your warp path.

If you're cloaked, you may or may not be safe to warp @0. The smartbomber won't see you on dscan, but may attempt to blindly activate his smartbombs anyway.

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-07-04 13:08:16 UTC
Rascal Jackson wrote:
I get that for people without a cloak, but it seemed to me that unless the bubble was filled with cans/drones/whatever, I would simply land in the bubble, cruise out of it, and jump in the gate. It was much worse once I got to the other side, and saw the 2-3 Sabers coming through and spreading out trying to decloak me.
Yes, if nothing decloaks you you're fine.

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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#8 - 2014-07-04 13:14:17 UTC
I use 'travel bookmarks'. They are basicly gate-to-gate midwarp bookmarks, where the following conditions apply:

1. The gate is within 1 AU.
2. The gate can be singled out on 5 degree d-scan.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-07-04 13:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Gully Alex Foyle
Abrazzar wrote:
So if I have a bookmark 255km perpendicular away to the gate to gate warp I could warp there and avoid a bubble set on the gate to gate path? Or will the angle be too small to avoid the bubble radius?

EDIT: Wait, should be 155km so I'm still on grid and within warp distance.
Up to 300km you should still be on-grid.

I'm not sure about the angle, actually.

Anyway, this dude surely knows better than me. Big smile

EDIT: trying to remember some geometry, since the warp distance will likely be far greater than 200km, the gate-to-gate warp path will be almost parallel to the gate-to-bookmark warp path, so yeah warping to the bookmark will always be ok if you're sure it's roughly perpendicular.

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Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#10 - 2014-07-04 13:27:34 UTC
Well it's upto you, personally if I am say, flying around with 2 billion in exploration loot then I would rather spend the 30 or so seconds to bounce to a spot where I can dscan the gate before warping to it, rather than relying on the slim chance of a quick getaway.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2014-07-04 13:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
I use 'travel bookmarks'. They are basicly gate-to-gate midwarp bookmarks, where the following conditions apply:

1. The gate is within 1 AU.
2. The gate can be singled out on 5 degree d-scan.

You can go a step further and make "perches" or "tacticle" bookmarks at a distance off gate so you can see the stuff on grid (and still warp in)without committing to a run on the gate.

Edit: derp,I missed abrazzars post. That's what I'm on about.

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Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-07-04 13:39:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Rascal Jackson wrote:
I get that for people without a cloak, but it seemed to me that unless the bubble was filled with cans/drones/whatever, I would simply land in the bubble, cruise out of it, and jump in the gate. It was much worse once I got to the other side, and saw the 2-3 Sabers coming through and spreading out trying to decloak me.


It's worth remembering that a sensible gate-camper wont clean up the wrecks of previous kills. Anyone warping gate-to-gate will be landing in virtually the same point on the bubbles edge, and if a previous tripper wasn't so lucky or well-equipped, and were small enough to get insta-blapped, their wreck is going to be damn close to where you will be dropping out of warp. And the wreck isn't the worst danger. Did you remember to have corpses on overview? If not, there is some invisible trouble floating out there to decloak you.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2014-07-04 13:43:21 UTC
Rascal Jackson wrote:
I get that for people without a cloak, but it seemed to me that unless the bubble was filled with cans/drones/whatever, I would simply land in the bubble, cruise out of it, and jump in the gate. It was much worse once I got to the other side, and saw the 2-3 Sabers coming through and spreading out trying to decloak me.

No, you won't land somewhere inside the bubble, but at a specific spot (wihin a few meters maybe) from your warping direction. So if they set up a drag bubble for a specific direction they know where you will land and simply drop a can there to decloak you.
It requires a bit of training, but its no rocket sience.

Abrazzar wrote:
So if I have a bookmark 255km perpendicular away to the gate to gate warp I could warp there and avoid a bubble set on the gate to gate path? Or will the angle be too small to avoid the bubble radius?

EDIT: Wait, should be 155km so I'm still on grid and within warp distance.

Yes having a bookmark somewhere above or below the gate from where you can warp to the gate will help you to not land in the drag bubble.
Rascal Jackson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-07-04 14:00:38 UTC
I get the idea with the bookmarks, but such perches and specific area bookmarks are for when you have been there before. Flying through new space doesn't leave me with that luxury.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#15 - 2014-07-04 14:04:32 UTC
Don't forget to use the other celestials to alter your flight path.

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-07-04 14:09:09 UTC
Rascal Jackson wrote:
I get the idea with the bookmarks, but such perches and specific area bookmarks are for when you have been there before. Flying through new space doesn't leave me with that luxury.
If you need to scan a gate that is farther than 14 au from everything else, you can cap yourself out by repeatedly initiating and cancelling warp.

Warp only when you get the warning that you haven't got enough cap to make the whole warp. Remember to stop your ship when landing or it will auto-rewarp. :)

Also useful for making odd-angle safespots close to a gate that appears to have very few possible warp paths from system celestials (you can check this on solar system map).

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Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-07-04 14:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Rascal Jackson wrote:
I get the idea with the bookmarks, but such perches and specific area bookmarks are for when you have been there before. Flying through new space doesn't leave me with that luxury.


True, but a fairly simple quick-and-dirty method is to warp to a celestial sufficiently off-plane from the gate-to-gate line, and then warp to the gate. Since most quick camps will only bubble the most common directions, and bubbles only effect you if your warp line passes through them, if you are warping in from a random planet, odds are high you will not get caught by any drags, and there wont be obstructions on your arrival-point if they have bubbled at 0. This isn't fool-proof, and certainly not best-practice, but it is better than nothing.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#18 - 2014-07-04 20:03:27 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
So if I have a bookmark 255km perpendicular away to the gate to gate warp I could warp there and avoid a bubble set on the gate to gate path? Or will the angle be too small to avoid the bubble radius?

EDIT: Wait, should be 155km so I'm still on grid and within warp distance.

Yes, a lot of people call these tacticals, where you have on grid safes that arent in direct line gate to gate, be them above, below or to the sides of gates, you can safely warp to these even on bubbled gates, allowing you to warp down to the gate (likely being on a different angle from the bubbles.)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#19 - 2014-07-05 02:53:54 UTC
General Bubble Discussion.

Always good to be refreshed on bubble mechanics, as I live in a very safe place with them

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