EVE General Discussion

I don't think the fact that people are using alts has anything to do with the timing of the plex spawns. It has much more to do with the fact that no one wants to keep track of where, in the 200 systems of fw, the alts are plexing.

I am not sure I understand what you want. Did you not agree that pretty much all the plexes should not just spawn at downtime. Now that they have them spawn at other times you are saying it's worse? What do you think the spawn mechanics should be?

That's the problem, a chunk still spawns at DT and can stack like stupid just like before. All they did was add a steady stream to the pile .. find a system with a DT stack of ten plexes and system goes vulnerable after camping it with a speedtanking alt for 6-7 hours once the automated spawning kicks in.

Ideally I want plexes to spawn on command; suggested previously that bunker could be hacked and thus "provoke" a spawn or an anchored module be deployed (consumed when spawned). Automatically spawning plexes should be kept at a minimum, as in one at a time throughout the day with say 15 minutes from despawn to respawn.

The concept I am currently working with is:
- One random plex spawns automatically per system at DT. Closing it starts a 15-30minute timer before another spawns.
Offence:
- Deploy an Assault Pod (AP) with a breaching crew of guerilla fighters, marines or whatnot on a hostile bunker (under livestock on market I think) .. after a while a small series (3-5 of varying sizes) of plexes spawn and the AP is retrieved minus a percentage of the soldiers .. got to have casualties!
- Limit number of AP that can be deployed onto the same bunker to say once every 1-2 hours .. should take 2-3 days or so to flip a system (dependant on defensive operations).

Defence:
- Deployment of AP shows up as an alert in revamped militia interface with number and size of plexes as well as location (obviously).
- Closing a defensive plex takes but a few minutes on "button" (ie. NOT a full timer). Reason being that slamming a door shut is considerably easier than breaking the damn thing down, offensive operations now have to be organized and fit-for-fight to get anywhere.
- Interfacing (hacking, webbing, pointing whatever) with bunker can spawn one addtional plex that has to be closed before it can be done again .. defensive operations can repair immense amounts of damage in a very short time if allowed meaning offence becomes a 23/7 affair.

Combine with revision of NPCs (remove, balance, nerf, whatever) and the era of alt plexing comes to an end and 8 hours blobbing per day gets nothing. Add carrots/sticks for occupancy to taste.

PS: Still keen on the border concept, just not relevant to spawn mechanics which you asked about

These are some good ideas, but again, having previously talked about CCP as having poured cow dung onto dog ****, I can guarantee you the developers are already taking you less seriously. Respect is a huge part of communication, and many developers have been frank that when a person strays into troll territory, any interest in listening to them and their ideas goes out the window.

I urge all of us participating in the feedback here to keep the tone respectful and constructive. Rants will get us no where.

Maybe do FW like alliances, and take it to the next level.
I mean, allow them to take sov in nullsec, and everything going with it. It would be fun to see the Gallente Federation in Cloud Ring and the Caldaris in Pure Blind, fighting each other for REAL sov warfare, not only a "Contested" status in losec systems. They wouldn't be able to build supercaps anyway, but they would have access to more PvP tools - like JBs and cynojammers -
IMO if it happens i would be the first one to join FW

Oh and
Fix the FW plexs, put a reward on it - maybe with LPs ?
And make it MOAR interesting for everyone that wants to PvP but that doesn't like blobs. Scanning all day long to found a f*ckin FW plex that would give me anything really worthy and fighting for totally virtual sov, sorry but no. Just, no.
Maybe do FW systems like "semi-nullsec" systems ? Like real sov warfare but without timers ? Station bashing ? Something ?

Why would we be able to hold nullsec Sov but NOT be able to build supercaps?? That would ensure we are simply crushed by the surrounding powers. I dont even think its possible to hold sov in nullsec for any length of time without a supercap fleet.

Besides, I don't really know that the various factions would even want to fight out in nullsec if they were given the chance. I for one hate the style of PvP that exists out there - supercap battles or 300 person battleship attrition wars involving zero pilot skill is not my idea of fun.

There are plenty of ways to make faction sovereignty meaningful in lowsec regions, I truly believe if most of us wanted nullsec gameplay we'd simply join a nullsec alliance. I can't speak for everyone though.

By op I meant "original post" not "original poster". And yes I agree you did a good job sorting through the concerns and finding those that surface the most. Players definitely did allot of hand wringing about pirate ships in minor plexes and your op reflects that.

I think the pirate frigate issue is now moot with destroyers making all other ships that can enter minor plexes obsolete. I think in general we just want ccp to look at what is allowed into minor plexes. Personally I think they should create a rookie plex that allows t1 frigates and maybe faction frigates (not pirate faction) and then the minor plexes should let in destroyers pirate frigates and t2 frigates.

"snide comment" as in singular? If CCP stops listening to people after snide comments then they will surely not listen to any of us who have been posting about fw for more than 6 months. I guess its time to visit the character bazarr.

A few things here, and a few things from Hans' proposal I wanted to comment on:

PvE is still an issue, but I don't think the solution is very complicated. The problems are simple:
-PvP ships (particularly passive tanks) are not ideal for plexes
-individual alts can speed-tank them

To fix both problems, rebalance the NPCs. Make there be ONE set of them to clear out, and balance their total EHP so that (for example) 2 players with PvP ships, appropriate for the plex size, could wipe them out fast enough to avoid screwing up their tanks. Also give them webs, or some other anti-frig buff.

If done correctly, the result should be that:
-PvP ships can steam-roll the NPCs without changing out your fit, and then be free to PvP
-the rebalanced NPCs prevent single alts in cheap ships from running larger plexes

Also (depending on balance) it could promote small groups by keeping it practical as a solo'er, but making that much more smooth with a partner.

Remember that if we remove NPCs entirely, that it will be even EASIER for alts to run the plexing war. It needs to be harder for them, and easier for PvPers. This may not be a flawless proposal, but I'm sure many will agree on the results that need to be achieved.

On the same subject was a suggestion that plex timers should be based on the number of players running it. I think there is potential there if all possibilities are considered. It could definitely nerf alt plexing, but it would also inadvertently nerf the solo playstyle. To ensure it doesn't totally unbalance something, my take on it is something like this:

-with one player inside, timer starts at something like 150% of current timer values
-2 players drops in to 100%
-3 players or more drops it bellow 100%

And something else that might help in this subject, either in place of, or in addition to the timer-value-modifiers above, is if the timer would count down faster and faster as long as no opposing ships entered the plex.

As an attacker, obviously you want one of two things: get a fight, or complete the plex. If no one is showing up to defend, why should you have to wait the full time to close the plex? And if a defender does show up, they are hindering you that much more by resetting the rate at which the timer counts down.

Ok, other comments in a new post... gotta work on my text-walling :P

I was quick to jump on Hirana, only because I feel like the work we're doing here is so fragile and I want so badly for it to pay off, making me overly sensitive to people cursing the Dev's in our feedback.

I wanted to say though, that I should have given this concept more credit to begin with, as it is a fantastic base model for a plexing revamp. I actually love the Assault Pod idea, and maybe they can be shot out of ships like bombs or probes, and i also like the idea of stacking them. Instead of just orbiting the button, you gotta get in there and launch more marines to win the fight....

The only way this could be EVEN BETTER is to simply use Dust 514 mercs. Why not build some maps that are space bunkers? something a little more close quarters to break up the monotony of planetside warfare. Whenever you launch an Assault Pod, your paid merc friends get to spawn in the bunker and do their thing. Dust matches could easily be fought and won in the amount of time it takes for fleets to orbit the button. And here's the bonus - with cross platform comms, orbiting that button would be WAY more fun if you actually heard troops getting slaughtered inside. Effing GLORIOUS 'twould be.

Dust 514 matches in an internal bunker map would address the limit on troops (you'd have to actually get real people to assist, there might be a player cap in a map as well), and the timer issue - timers would be variable depending on the skill of your hired hands. If they're ruthless, your team can GTFO and escape in ships quickly - if you go the cheap route you may be orbiting a while waiting for a victory, and have to stave off enemy fleets in the mean time.

Of course, all this would work just as well planetside, you would have to make transport of mercs to and from the planet take a bit of time, to force you to hold a fleet alongside the planet while their troops are beamed up. You either hold the field, and get your troops out alive, or you bail and your troops get slaughtered (remember that trailer??)

And Hirana, I absolutely agree with reducing spawn rates to a steady pace, and ONLY having one launch at DT (Ok, maybe one of each size in play in the warzone at any time) If there's a bunch spawning at once post downtime, clearly that's an issue to be fixed.

Cmon FW junkies - tell me you dont want to see Assault Pods with paid Dust bunnies duking it out over a plex while you protect the getaway ship, with cross platform chat so you can yell at them to hurry the eff up, cause fighting would be happening in space while ***** going down with the bunnies, either side could be losing and calling for retreat....tell me that wouldn't be a rad alternative to button orbits on preset timers.....

If you're looking at the act of plexing as an activity, then reward balancing is important. And I do think it should be done, regardless of other modifications. But my comment is coming from a strictly PvP mindset.

Plexes already have arena properties. The ship restrictions are meant to keep you from getting wildly overpowered. I would consider it an iterative improvement to simply add a numbers restriction to compliment the ship restriction. I can't think of a negative effect of such a change. I can only imagine that it would reduce the variety of circumstances where players have to run from overwhelming enemy forces, and where players engage in what they feel is not a fair fight, neither of which is fun.

Keep in mind that this suggestion doesn't have to apply to all plexes. If we're concerned about the sandbox, we should be creating more choices for players. Right now there are the standard plex rules, but they are so basic that they actually reduce the number of ways you can go about plexing. If there were more types of plexes in terms of restrictions, NPC execution, layout, timers/objectives... then players could choose what types suit their play-style and likely encounter enemies that share their style which in turn will lead to more satisfying fighting.