Crime & Punishment

It would let freighter escorts have a shot at blapping the bumper.

That's about all I can think of.


I believe an idea to circumvent trade hub issues which has been previously suggested is that bumping does nothing unless the target is locked - therefore all PvP uses are safe, accidental conkordokken at hubs is also avoided. So long as people turn off auto target back, which is simple enough.

Wouldn't help miners a damn for reasons stated, but the wider aspects might be interesting - perhaps create some interesting opportunities of baiting etc.

make a siege module of mining where u are un bumpable but have to be not moving, and u can cancel the mining siege at any time,

Way to go for resurrecting a dead thread but maybe it needed it.

Does this mean you can't talk about bumping in your bio?

Please look into the bumping of ships.

It doesn't make sense you can use a small ship to bump a bigger ship that are a few times bigger.
It's more reasonable to able bump ships that are almost the same size.

Personally I'd like an answer better then move to another location please. Because in the case of ice this is something both CCP and the GM need to understand. There is not one usually within a reasonable distance.

You can't just jump one system over or change one belt. You have to make 5-7 jump trips, you have to move ships, you have to then haul longer distances. All because of what just happened to me and a corp mate. A character in a maller was ramming every barge in the belt making ice mining impossible, even if you tried to orbit and evade him, his actions were disruptive and made our undertaking playing the game as we desired impossible.

And we have zero recourse against this. He gets away scott free protected by CONCORD. And we are the ones forced to leave because his ship can't be attacked, evasion is a no go, we don't have someone to try and bump him back (which would be an exploit fighting an exploit) There's no point i nwar dec'ing or hiring mercs over a single bumper, and even then you could avoid that by being in an npc corp. All the while he gets off because of CCP's own stupid rule where harassment is only harassment if you are followed. There's no point in him following because he accomplished his goal of insuring people can't mine the ice. Why would he follow?

And then what if I moved the 5+ jumps to another ice belt and find a DIFFERENT pilot bumping there? Do I move back to the first ice system? Hope the bumper left and bumper #2 now doesn't follow a "Reasonable" (HA!) distance? Do I go even further still looking for every 4 hour spawns even more jumps from a base of operations? Maybe I could even find a third bumper if I'm lucky?

So if we can not within the rules of the game take action against someone who is quite obviously to everyone abusing EVE mechanics, is engaging in what for him is (And this is the point that can't be stressed enough given the mentality of EVE players telling people to HTFU and you are "never safe") --CONSEQUENCE FREE-- PVP activity. How is it not abuse of the rules, mechanics, and an exploit?

And when a player is intentionally disrupting other players actions by an activity that serves no benefit to himself, and meant purely to be disruptive? Please explain to me how in the world that is not the classic mmo definition (to everyone but CCP anyway) of griefing, and exploiting the rules of EVE to accomplish his actions?

CCP needs to get it through there heads bumping is an exploit of the highest order, and something needs to be done about it. It is not "emergent gameplay" it is harassment pure and simple, so why will the devs and GM staff not treat it as such?

EDIT: Oh and a fun little thought too if you want to get reeeeallly technical about this. If I'm harassed by a bumper in an ice spawn in a single system, but then later on in the same day or two I'm "followed" and this same bumper continues to harass players in a second or third ice spawn have we crossed that harassment line yet CCP?

And look, bumping isn't on that list. Wonder why?

But please educate me, tell this poor widdle carebear (dripping sarcasm) what tools I have to escape, avoid, or deal with a bumper in an ice belt besides leave, counter bump, or try to war dec an npc corp member?

The whole the devs would have dealt with it years ago defense is an empty argument too. Given the evolving nature of any MMO. It's about on par with complaining about grammar instead of actually addressing the problem.

Could it be because you don't have an actual argument to the point being raised Omar? Come on let's see those tools!

And again even if I did use this magical advice you have but can't give specifics on, you still have the issue of should I use those tools how do we address moving from one bumper and encountering a second? And how many ice belts in a day do I have to be bumped out of before a player crosses the line from "Emergent gameplay" into "Harassment."

Your thoughts?

And if I pay him or not it doesn't change the fact that unlike other anti miner measures. (Suicide ganks for instance) there is still

* No consequences to the bumper for his actions.
* No ability by miners to exact retribution upon the bumper. All loss is on them without any counter.

Granted in the case of bumping you lose time moving back, or time finding a new location over a barge. But compare again to a gank.

* Consequence for ganker in the form of criminal flag, loss of sec status, and loss of cheap cata fit. (Granted all of these are minor, but they are actual consequence)
* Miner has retribution options in the form of kill rights now. Or actual defense counters in the form of various tanking options, spider webbed repper drones with friends, paying CODE pre gank, avoiding known gank zones, combat escorts, logi ship, suicide gank counters in the most extreme cases, etc.

Again if you want to talk about makes eve appealing (to me as well) It's the risk vs reward factor and how actions have consequences. None of which applies to bumpers, it's a 100% risk free behavior that accomplishes the same goal of miner disruption that a gank would. But again unlike ganks zero consequence zero counter within the system and the rules. Even less of one if again you're dealing with an npc corp bumper you can't war dec or sic mercs on. So even if we concede the point that the devs don't consider it an exploit (though imho it fits the definition perfectly) How does it fit into the ethos so to speak of the eve universe?

For all the ragging high sec "carebears" get this would seem to be another version of that as well, given that bumpers are hiding behind the high sec rules and CONCORD even more than those in the barges. =p

And I'll ask you as well, if you are dealing with a fixed location such as an ice belt where movement to a new system is not an option, how does the CCP stance of harassment = being followed apply across multiple ice spawns then?

Hmmmm . . . how should miners deal with bumping and any other security issues in the belts, I ponder.

Please hold on to the arms of your chairs, because I'm about to add to the proposals a very revolutionary and innovative idea:

Talk to and play with others also interested in securing belts for peaceful mining.

I know this will shock some who thought the "MM" part of MMO meant "Mono-play Mining". Clue: it doesn't.

But actually, when you look it up, the "MM" part, especially with EVE, means that there are a whole lot of people with whom you can creatively come up with the solution to your security. Isn't that a whole lot more fun and creative than turning EVE into Hello Kitty with space-ships? I think so.

In order to get into the fun and creativity of beating your opponents and providing your own security you'll have to actually, like, talk to and play with other people.

Welcome to the MMO, welcome to the sandbox. WoW and Hello Kitty ------------------>

I know, right? Traders who manipulate the market are bullies! Miners who mine 24/7 and lower ore prices from dumping all that ore on the market are bullies! But I'm not complaining that they're bullying. I'm looking for a creative way to bully them right back (within allowed game mechanics and EULA, of course).

Yes, Eve is a game full of bullies. In fact, they market that you "can be the villain" in this game. You didn't know this?

u mad bro?