Crime & Punishment

The reason why anti-gank fleets dont work is simple and it has nothing to do with competence, entitlement, etc.... The fundamental reality of eve is that it is a game which players play to entertain themselves. Anti-gank fleets are the opposite of fun --- basically you sit around all day waiting for something that has a very high likelihood of not happening. And when it does happen, its like stamping cockroaches - you have little practical effect on the overall situation.

So basically your saying if you are being harassed and blown up repeatedly move to another area?. If I mine in one area and repeatedly get blown up by the same char or same corp day after day isn't this classed as harassment?.

Also when in local or having a private chat telling a char to have a permit or be blown up and also edit there bio class as harassment?

IE if you chatted to me in local whilst i was mining and you said get a permit and i said no. Then you blew me up. Isnt that a form of demanding with intent which is harassment?. Especially if I come back the same day and mine the same area and you do the same again?

See I understand the bumping bit but this isnt bumping its demanding isk or have your ship blown up. So the CODE isnt correctly written. As originally stated the code was made to bump and take isk. Bumping is totally different to ganking.

also ill quote

You may not submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous or defamatory, So you threatening 10 mill isk or loose your ship not harassment?

Also Edit

If James is in system or even online, the miner can request the Questions Three. It's not on us to offer that option. So are you telling me that you dont accept the CODE which is written by James?

Also your admitting exploiting the game mechanics to benefit yourself

Concord Manipulation
Concord can be moved away from the miners they guard (within a 150km range), enabling further ganks. The nearest Concord squad in the system responds. Multiple Concord can be moved by simultaneous crimes. Undocking with aggression in a rookie ship or shuttle is a quick way to move Concord or even spawn Concord in a neighboring system.

Highsec is a terrible place to be anyways. Go to a really quiet low sec and mine there if you must.

Bumping for the sake of bumping is harassment. Bumping to make the kill is not.

Extortion doesn't have to involve murder.

If I want to sit on a gate and bump away every industrial ship I can as a "blockade" and demand payment to pass, I can.

If I want to bump a mining barge over and over again refusing to allow him to mine and continue to do so until he pays me a mining fee, I can.

Heck, I can "lay claim" to an area and just bump everyone I want, because I want to. Don't want to get bumped? Avoid the system I'm in.


Now, if I were to hunt down and chase an industrial pilot or a miner, stalking them from region to region via locator agents, specifically targeting them after they've made a reasonable attempt to avoid me, that's harassment.

Bumping can be a form of extortion and piracy and that is well within the game rules. It doesn't have to involve setting up a kill.

Pardon my simple and silly response. I was having a very long day RL, and was just trying to inject some humor without making any kind of serious statement. Allow me to fix that.

The simple reason there is no large and well organized community of "counter-code" or "anti-gankers" has already been stated - most players would find the play style to be about as exciting and rewarding as watching paint dry. The very nature of calling it "Counter-Code" says it all right there - the play style itself is 100% dependent on a very small group of players undocking and doing something. It's not an even playing field - as the CODE play style requires a miner, freighter, industrial ship, or really any ship type in the entire game that exists that puts itself in a position to be ganked. The players that my content depends on outnumber the "Counter-Code" playstyle by a very extreme factor.

That being said, I fully support the concept of a "Counter-CODE" movement, and agree with you that keeping us on our toes and forcing us to adapt actually makes us better at what we do, and I value that. In fact, ganking things while some random dude is trying to prevent me from doing it is a ton of fun, in my book.

Finally, there is the issue of reward to consider. At best, in the most perfect situation, a "anti-code" player doing everything to disrupt me has the possible reward of either about 700k isk from my bounty pool and a spot on a killmail worth about ten million ISK. At worst, I lose a ship that was designed to lose in the first place, and that I normally purchase in packs of 500. To most people, taking part in a "anti-CODE" movement seems a bit silly.

And finally, as much as I enjoy when people attempt to disrupt my actions - the simply reality is that the only real "anti-code" movement that will ever do wonderful is a movement that takes place on the player level - there is no need for any type of organized movement in the first place. The OP said it the best (And it's very clear that trying to protect other players who cannot follow these common sense rules would seem very unrewarding and a bit silly to most)

Don't autopilot.
Don't haul goods worth more than it would cost to gank you.
Don't fly expensive ships with paper-thin tanks without proper support.

I'd add a few items to the list such as:

Don't AFK in space unless you really know what you are doing.
Learn to watch local and d-scan.
Combine intel and personal experience with use of the standings system to make the local user list a valuable tool
When flying a freighter use the in-game map and intel channels to determine systems that are high-risk

And there you have it - the entire need for a "movement" or a "anti-code" can be achieved without any organizational efforts in any way, and realized on the individual player level.

And in regards to "that day" in Nakugard where I "failed to innovate" and "ran away" - please consider that on my end it was probably a lot more like "Having a target pool of thousands vs. a target pool of one" and that "innovation" is not defined by using a ship class that you determine to be "innovative", and that what you declare as "running away" was simply innovation by selecting another target from a nearly endless pool of targets that I have a higher chance of success with. I call that "tactics". To be blunt, however, and I mean no offense - I really don't remember the specific situation at all. Folks who try to prevent ganks don't normally stand out that much unless I speak to them a few times or see them a ton of times, as they tend to have little to no actual impact on my game play.

Nothing but the truth. The simple fact really remains that, at least in my experience, playing the role of "Counter-CODE" probably makes mining look exciting :) I admire anyone with the patience to do it, while also having no idea whatsoever how it could be really any fun at all.

And I do get a kick out of when docking up to pay attention to some chat windows while waiting on a GCC timer or hanging loose while a scout is searching for a target is confidently declared by someone as "hiding" or deciding for whatever reason to move to another solar system is "running away" - it's pretty funny :) Reminds me of a guy I used to know in low-sec who, when presented with a situation where a target that was no match at all for him would decide on a strategy of evasion and not getting slaughtered was loudly proclaimed in local every single time as "Being a coward who can't handle a fight!"

Or another player who placed a multi billion bounty on my head while I was on a 39 jump trip in a shuttle who loudly proclaimed in many chat channels that their bounty was causing me to "run all over the universe to try to avoid the bounty hunters". That was a very special day :)

Though, it's nice to feel that your actions are having enough of an impact on someone else, and I would never want to deny anyone the simple pleasure of feeling involved.

And to be fair, I really was not being obnoxious - I totally have no memory at all of the day he speaks of. It's nothing personal, it's just that only two or three "counter-CODE" type players have really stood out enough for me to pay enough attention to take notice of them.

Yes. What's so difficult about that?



I'm not saying it's not harassment...the devs are.




That's some terrible space lawyering. By this, they mean IRL threats, etc, not threatening to blow up your internet spaceship in a game centered around internet spaceships blowing up.



Allow me to quote the Code:
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html

- If a miner does not wish to purchase a mining indulgence, he may still be granted a one-day reprieve, if he is able to correctly answer the Supreme Protector's Questions Three.

I and other agents are not the Supreme Protector. Only the Supreme Protector can administer the Questions Three.



It's not an exploit until CCP says it is.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

I think what they are saying is that getting blown up over and over in the same system, or getting blown up over and over in many systems, or getting blown up in any way that someone can manage to blow you up is not harassment in any way, and has never once been seen as harassment by CCP.



No, it's not. Not even close. I am allowed to shoot any player I want at any time I want - the ONLY exception to that rule is that if you are in a 1.0 rookie starter system. I can follow you all over the universe and shoot you. I can do *nothing but* follow you around and shoot you and make that my entire EVE career. I could even declare myself the "Shooter Of Jove Eden" in my bio and dedicate my entire life to nothing but shooting you until you buy a permit.

Let me help you clear this up. If I see you in space and want to demand ISK from you and claim that I will bump you until you pay up, that's totally fine. If you don't pay me and I continue to bump you out of mining range and prevent you from mining at all in that system, that is fine. If you go one jump over and I follow you, that's also fine. I'm after a goal - and the goal is your ISK. Bumping does have a special rule by CCP, however, which is that if you make efforts to totally leave the area and I use location agents to find you no matter where you go and continue to follow you around through MANY systems bumping you, then I might get told by CCP to knock it off. It's a bit of a gray area, but the general rule is that following someone in a "excessive" way and bumping them sometimes, depending on how CCP feels about it, be something that is not allowed. Ganking = weapon fire. Combat. I can do that at any time, anywhere, against anyone, as often as I want. That's part of EVE.



No, it's not harassment and I am shocked you don't see why. Here's examples of breaking those rules ONLY AS AN EXAMPLE in in a way that is only being typed to you to provide an example, nothing more.

"Harassing" - Me opening up private conversations with you over and over and typing "LOG OFF EVE HATES YOU" in each window, while spamming your inbox with the same thing, and inviting you to fleet over and over even when you decline. That's what they mean by "Harassing"

"Abusive" "Threatening" "Harmful" - Me typing in something in local like "You are a worthless person and I bet that your whole family is nothing but idiots and that everyone in the world hates you, you should just go biomass RL now or I might come do it for you" - that's abusive, threatening, and harmful! (Provided only for example, of course!!)

"obscene" Obvious one. Linking a naked picture of myself in local chat is a good example.

"libelous or defamatory" - Also a easy one - saying anything that harms your reputation as a person. Like, if I knew you worked for a company and I started telling all of local that you were stealing from that company and were a thief, and then shared the phone number of your boss.

Your problem is you are confusing harassing your internet space ship (which I am totally free to do!) with harassing you as a person (which will get me trouble). I can also threaten your IN GAME character or spaceship with harm, or defame your character by making up lies about him or her. I can't do any of this to you as a PERSON, however. Get it?



No, he's telling you that only James can issue the questions three. James is the supreme protector :)



No, we admit to using game mechanics to benefit ourselves. Let's say you undock, warp to a belt, and mine a asteroid to get ore to sell. You are doing the same thing - using game mechanics to benefit yourself. That's all that we are doing.

There is no rule against doing a criminal act just to get CONCORD to move where you want them to move. In fact, the ONLY rule that even applies here is using a alt account to do it until your sec status gets so bad that it's not really doable, and then biomassing that character and creating another to do it again. I've never met anyone in CODE or anywhere else who has ever done this.

I hope this helped out.

Bah, i'm not going to use a Talos or Brutix to hit a retriever - that would be very irresponsible of me, as a agent of the New Order all my losses are replaced by donations from shareholders - so I feel responsible to make sure that I am as careful with my losses as possible and use every last fraction of and ISK in the most effective way possible. Talos and Brutix are for bigger game :P I think I remember you now, in the Falcon! Yeah, I could have used something heavy - but why not just make a jump or two and see what you do? I'm patient, and I hate using anything bigger then my trusty cat for a gank unless I have a serious internet spaceship based reason lol :)

My scout is only obvious if you know the name and see it in local or I screw up and drop cloak somehow, which does happen lol :) As for using a procurer as a scout, not my style. Too slow and when you factor in intel channels that have shared your scouts name with everyone and anyone, it's covops for life for me. Most people who are semi-paying attention will see a red drop on grid with them, but a red in a local when there are 20+ members? Not always :)

And zomg man, yes :) Nothing but fun! Nice chatting with ya :)