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[Summer 2014] Starbase tweaks

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#441 - 2014-06-21 10:16:12 UTC
This wouldallow for sticks to be maintained relatively cheaply by restocking stront though. I still preferthe idea of shields goingdown when the tower is offlined and continual damage being done by meteorite strikes etc
that way the owner not onlly has to online again but has to repair the tower.
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#442 - 2014-06-21 11:46:22 UTC
It dot have to be to costly to maintain, but HAVING to maintain is a large step in the right direction
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#443 - 2014-06-21 16:29:17 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
This wouldallow for sticks to be maintained relatively cheaply by restocking stront though. I still preferthe idea of shields goingdown when the tower is offlined and continual damage being done by meteorite strikes etc
that way the owner not onlly has to online again but has to repair the tower.

Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
It dot have to be to costly to maintain, but HAVING to maintain is a large step in the right direction


Exactly, as long as someone is actually maintaining it, visiting it once every month to keep it from being taken is an acceptable level of activity. It is the same for secured cans in space.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#444 - 2014-06-21 20:33:37 UTC
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Would that not detract from the need to take more moon space by force?


It would, it would also make a large POS that more painfull to attack. Remember that highsec dont have dreads doing 10-15k dps, but are left with 1k or less per ship in a reasonable pvp fit.

You're not selling this idea to me.

The idea that modules could be used to upgrade tower capabilities instead of upgrading the tower to a larger size would just make the larger sizes redundant. On top of that, it would detract from the process of taking other moons to aquire more capacity, which would detract from POS's as a combat driver.

And lastly, (I may be wrong, as I have not done any moon mining of any kind as yet,) it could also allow a single POS to aquire even more moon goo per cycle. If that is the case then I think quite a few people would agree with me when I say that it would be a HUGE mistake to implement the idea.

Anyway...

CCP have already stated in other posts that they are looking at ways to remove inactive POS's. I am personally quite hopeful that there will be a means of stealing them. Failing that I would be happy to see the hull resistances of inactive POS's degrade the longer they are inactive, as though the backup power keeping the resists up slowly diminishes over time - unless it is recharged by the generator that runs on fuel blocks. A bit like the battery in your PC that keeps the internal stuff ticking over while it's turned off.

Friends
SalubriousSky Rinah
Cryptic Spear
#445 - 2014-06-21 20:55:03 UTC  |  Edited by: SalubriousSky Rinah
Can someone just verify my maths for me? (On night shifts at the moment, so not sure what time of day it is either Shocked)

For a small Caldari tower:

Structure HP = 1,000,000 HP

So, with 99% resists, this equates to (1,000,000)/(1.0-0.99) = (1,000,000)/0.01 = 100,000,000 HP

For a large Caldari tower:

Structure HP = 4,000,000 HP

So, with 99% resists, this equates to (4,000,000)/(1.0-0.99) = (4,000,000)/0.01 = 400,000,000 HP

So, if I am correct, why does it matter whether offlined towers have shields or not? Since the 'effective' HP of their structure is so darn high? So, an effective and easy way to deal with the removal of old POSes would be to reduce their structure resists significantly.

I also like the idea that these offlined towers should be maintained in some way to prevent degradation over time, so if CCP does not deem it worthy to reduce the resists, maybe the degradation should occure to the POSes structure instead?

Sal

Edit: btw, when do the 99% resists on the tower actually come into force? I'm assuming that they are there when a tower runs out of fuel and becomes offlined.

Edit: bashed a high sec tower...found out the answer lol
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#446 - 2014-06-21 21:00:12 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Would that not detract from the need to take more moon space by force?


It would, it would also make a large POS that more painfull to attack. Remember that highsec dont have dreads doing 10-15k dps, but are left with 1k or less per ship in a reasonable pvp fit.

You're not selling this idea to me.


That may have something to do with me agreeing. I jsut mentioned that it would also make a POS harder to take, not only less needed
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#447 - 2014-06-23 09:58:32 UTC
SalubriousSky Rinah wrote:
Can someone just verify my maths for me? (On night shifts at the moment, so not sure what time of day it is either Shocked)

For a small Caldari tower:

Structure HP = 1,000,000 HP

So, with 99% resists, this equates to (1,000,000)/(1.0-0.99) = (1,000,000)/0.01 = 100,000,000 HP

For a large Caldari tower:

Structure HP = 4,000,000 HP

So, with 99% resists, this equates to (4,000,000)/(1.0-0.99) = (4,000,000)/0.01 = 400,000,000 HP

So, if I am correct, why does it matter whether offlined towers have shields or not? Since the 'effective' HP of their structure is so darn high? So, an effective and easy way to deal with the removal of old POSes would be to reduce their structure resists significantly.

I also like the idea that these offlined towers should be maintained in some way to prevent degradation over time, so if CCP does not deem it worthy to reduce the resists, maybe the degradation should occure to the POSes structure instead?

Sal

Edit: btw, when do the 99% resists on the tower actually come into force? I'm assuming that they are there when a tower runs out of fuel and becomes offlined.


The 99% hull resist is given to anchored modules while the tower is online. The tower itself does not have 99% hull resists.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#448 - 2014-06-25 00:45:44 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Sigras wrote:
"Oh No! I actually have to do some work to get the results I want which include freeing up a moon in high sec and blowing up a 3-400 million isk asset of my enemies! Why cant CCP just let me be lazy and do it for me???!!!"


There is a large diffrence between CCP helping to remove towers, and CCP changing mechanics around tower removal. We have no idea what they end up doing, but killing a dickstar in highsec is far from what anyone would call fun.

Thats fair, i cant criticize a mechanic that I havent observed yet...



Sigras, this is what I meant... No I do not want CCP to 'do it for me' I just want a different mechanic that (1) is more fun and (2) gives us chance to TAKE the tower and mods. Not just shoot at it for hours only to assplode (and waste) it.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#449 - 2014-06-25 01:06:46 UTC
SalubriousSky Rinah wrote:
Removing deadsticks is already possible, as stated by other posts in this thread.

To reiterate, you simply get in a big ship, load some big ammo into big guns, gather a big group of players and open fire at said big target. Then sit back on comms, ping d scan, share war stories and adult content, crack open some beer and 12 hours later watch the said POS explode.

If CCP want to make this easier for players to remove offlined towers without making it a simple 'right click on offlined tower and scoop to cargo mechanic', then why don't they just reduce the hull resists on offlined towers...instead of the bizarre 99% resists they have at the moment.

Sal


First... wow... you can shoots them? really?? =\

Ok, with that outta the way... what the ALL rest of us are taking about it a new mechanic to allow players to actually take control of deadsticks. Something OTHER than a beer laden half DAY of wasted time ending only in the destruction (IE more waste) of said spike.

Oh and if you actually enjoy POS bashes you probably would really love mining.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#450 - 2014-06-25 20:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:
SalubriousSky Rinah wrote:
Removing deadsticks is already possible, as stated by other posts in this thread.

To reiterate, you simply get in a big ship, load some big ammo into big guns, gather a big group of players and open fire at said big target. Then sit back on comms, ping d scan, share war stories and adult content, crack open some beer and 12 hours later watch the said POS explode.

If CCP want to make this easier for players to remove offlined towers without making it a simple 'right click on offlined tower and scoop to cargo mechanic', then why don't they just reduce the hull resists on offlined towers...instead of the bizarre 99% resists they have at the moment.

Sal


First... wow... you can shoots them? really?? =\

Ok, with that outta the way... what the ALL rest of us are taking about it a new mechanic to allow players to actually take control of deadsticks. Something OTHER than a beer laden half DAY of wasted time ending only in the destruction (IE more waste) of said spike.

Oh and if you actually enjoy POS bashes you probably would really love mining.



58 mil hitpoints on a large tower. that's 21 hours for 2 800 dps ship or 2 hours for 11 ships.
medium tower is at 29 mil hp
small is at 15 mil hp

its really only a half day activity if you try to do it solo

Edit: forgot passive recharge
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#451 - 2014-06-25 22:49:16 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:



58 mil hitpoints on a large tower. that's 21 hours for one 800 dps ship or 2 hours for 10 ships.
medium tower is at 29 mil hp
small is at 15 mil hp

its really only a half day activity if you try to do it solo


Still 21 manhours to remove something thats already abandoned (its not online, so its not active), and thats after you wait 24hours for the war to start. So 24hr5min if using a full fleet, or 45hours solo
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#452 - 2014-06-25 23:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakan MacTrew
Lady Rift wrote:
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:
SalubriousSky Rinah wrote:
Removing deadsticks is already possible, as stated by other posts in this thread.

To reiterate, you simply get in a big ship, load some big ammo into big guns, gather a big group of players and open fire at said big target. Then sit back on comms, ping d scan, share war stories and adult content, crack open some beer and 12 hours later watch the said POS explode.

If CCP want to make this easier for players to remove offlined towers without making it a simple 'right click on offlined tower and scoop to cargo mechanic', then why don't they just reduce the hull resists on offlined towers...instead of the bizarre 99% resists they have at the moment.

Sal


First... wow... you can shoots them? really?? =\

Ok, with that outta the way... what the ALL rest of us are taking about it a new mechanic to allow players to actually take control of deadsticks. Something OTHER than a beer laden half DAY of wasted time ending only in the destruction (IE more waste) of said spike.

Oh and if you actually enjoy POS bashes you probably would really love mining.



58 mil hitpoints on a large tower. that's 21 hours for one 800 dps ship or 2 hours for 10 ships.
medium tower is at 29 mil hp
small is at 15 mil hp

its really only a half day activity if you try to do it solo


You've forgotten to take into account the fact that the tower regens HP like a passive shield.

On one of my alts I have actually participated in a POS bash in highsec and it took 6 or 7 of us, with a 500 dps average, about 20 hours to drop a large caldari tower.

I can quite honestly say that it is impossible to blow a tower solo in highsec.

Friends
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#453 - 2014-06-26 14:41:19 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:
SalubriousSky Rinah wrote:
Removing deadsticks is already possible, as stated by other posts in this thread.

To reiterate, you simply get in a big ship, load some big ammo into big guns, gather a big group of players and open fire at said big target. Then sit back on comms, ping d scan, share war stories and adult content, crack open some beer and 12 hours later watch the said POS explode.

If CCP want to make this easier for players to remove offlined towers without making it a simple 'right click on offlined tower and scoop to cargo mechanic', then why don't they just reduce the hull resists on offlined towers...instead of the bizarre 99% resists they have at the moment.

Sal


First... wow... you can shoots them? really?? =\

Ok, with that outta the way... what the ALL rest of us are taking about it a new mechanic to allow players to actually take control of deadsticks. Something OTHER than a beer laden half DAY of wasted time ending only in the destruction (IE more waste) of said spike.

Oh and if you actually enjoy POS bashes you probably would really love mining.



58 mil hitpoints on a large tower. that's 21 hours for one 800 dps ship or 2 hours for 10 ships.
medium tower is at 29 mil hp
small is at 15 mil hp

its really only a half day activity if you try to do it solo


You've forgotten to take into account the fact that the tower regens HP like a passive shield.

On one of my alts I have actually participated in a POS bash in highsec and it took 6 or 7 of us, with a 500 dps average, about 20 hours to drop a large caldari tower.

I can quite honestly say that it is impossible to blow a tower solo in highsec.


its peak recharge on a large is like 600hp/s 3/4 of one ship at 800dps.

also note I used 800 dps for my numbers as that's an easy to reach in many ships.

and ya i'll revise my numbers to include the passive recharge. (which is just me going to be adding one ship)
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#454 - 2014-06-26 18:57:21 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
its peak recharge on a large is like 600hp/s 3/4 of one ship at 800dps.

also note I used 800 dps for my numbers as that's an easy to reach in many ships.

and ya i'll revise my numbers to include the passive recharge. (which is just me going to be adding one ship)


And as I said, it took about 20 hours, (I think it was more actually,) @3000 dps.

Even with 2400dp, (3 ships @800dps average,) let alone 2 ships @800 each (and on a related note you can top out at 1270dps using lasers and drones with a T2 fit Armagedon without using rigs @ all lvl 5 skills,) you will not be able to break the tower before server shutdown, where it will start to regen again through the downtime.

Friends
A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
#455 - 2014-06-27 19:48:12 UTC
Please allow the anchoring of reaction arrays in any security status solar system, not just < 0.4. While you are at it, allow the same for Small Mobile 'Rote'/'Hybrid' Siphon.

Thank you.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#456 - 2014-06-27 22:24:20 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
its peak recharge on a large is like 600hp/s 3/4 of one ship at 800dps.

also note I used 800 dps for my numbers as that's an easy to reach in many ships.

and ya i'll revise my numbers to include the passive recharge. (which is just me going to be adding one ship)


And as I said, it took about 20 hours, (I think it was more actually,) @3000 dps.

Even with 2400dp, (3 ships @800dps average,) let alone 2 ships @800 each (and on a related note you can top out at 1270dps using lasers and drones with a T2 fit Armagedon without using rigs @ all lvl 5 skills,) you will not be able to break the tower before server shutdown, where it will start to regen again through the downtime.



thats what the blob is there for
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#457 - 2014-06-29 09:40:52 UTC
Putting a pos in 0.9 to try out the research lab changes.
Large Caldari with 7 Research laboratory
Online everything, place BPO in Corp hangar in No 1 lab.

Open Industry tab - Facilities, Corp owned facilities, Material effeciency research.
Shows 3 X Mobile Laboratory - None of which shows the BPO I placed in there.

And really?? If your going to require 7 Labs to get maximum Benefit, make it so only 1 of them shows in the interface.
As it is, the interface does not show the name given to each lab and only shows the total labs (in this case 3 of 7), all named by type as Mobile Laboratory. If nothing else, include a tab for names


NB; The industry tab needs to be able to be resized. To see Install Date and End Date requires resizing other info sections. Makes the whole thing look really untidy.

Not being able to bid on team auctions is getting blo*dy annoying

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#458 - 2014-06-29 09:44:31 UTC
A'Tolkar wrote:
Please allow the anchoring of reaction arrays in any security status solar system, not just < 0.4. While you are at it, allow the same for Small Mobile 'Rote'/'Hybrid' Siphon.

Thank you.

Why ?
If lowsec is too dangerous for you - Don't moon mine, that's easy.
You want the isk - Take the risk.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
#459 - 2014-06-29 21:53:18 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
Please allow the anchoring of reaction arrays in any security status solar system, not just < 0.4. While you are at it, allow the same for Small Mobile 'Rote'/'Hybrid' Siphon.

Thank you.

Why ?
If lowsec is too dangerous for you - Don't moon mine, that's easy.
You want the isk - Take the risk.


I never said anything about allowing a moon harvesting array to be anchorable in any sec status. I can refine ore and reprocess modules and process ice come Crius (any sec status). Why not be able to run reactions as well?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#460 - 2014-07-04 09:47:58 UTC
A'Tolkar wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
Please allow the anchoring of reaction arrays in any security status solar system, not just < 0.4. While you are at it, allow the same for Small Mobile 'Rote'/'Hybrid' Siphon.

Thank you.

Why ?
If lowsec is too dangerous for you - Don't moon mine, that's easy.
You want the isk - Take the risk.


I never said anything about allowing a moon harvesting array to be anchorable in any sec status. I can refine ore and reprocess modules and process ice come Crius (any sec status). Why not be able to run reactions as well?


I like the idea of allowing reactions in any space, this would encourage more sneaky goo theft with siphons...