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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Monitor ship class...

Author
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#1 - 2014-06-19 16:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Ayeipsia
According to Wiki:
Quote:

A monitor was the class of relatively small warship which was neither fast nor strongly armoured but carried disproportionately large guns. They were used by some navies from the 1860s until the end of World War II,and saw their final use by the United States Navy during the Vietnam War.


Would such ships be viable in eve? Basically, a battleship or even BC size ship mounting 1-3 dread scake turrets. The ships would be slow in warp, maneuverability, and speed, lightly armored/slotted, and be glorified gun platforms. They would be more expensive then a bomber so would not necessarily replace thorn fleets, but would be good for attacking capital ships.

They could possibly have a siege mode that reduces drone damage so carriers could not insta-pop them with sentries, or instead, make them cruiser size with only one or two dread guns, but enough speed to help mitigate drone damage.

These monitors would need a support fleet as anything BS down would chew them apart, and with current mechanics be nearly impossible for thr monitors to hit. On the other hand, capital ships without support themselves would be hard pressed to survive a monitor fleet assuming the monitor fleet had tackle support.


Good idea or worst ever?

Heck, maybe a t2 variant that excels in orbital bombardment with an orbital bombardment siege module.
Elusive Panda
Void Covenant
The Initiative.
#2 - 2014-06-19 16:55:54 UTC
So basically a Tier 3 BC, but at the battleship level?

I like the idea, but I can humbly say that I have absolutely no idea what that would do to capital warfare.
Rage Arjar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-06-19 17:29:56 UTC
This idea has been thrown around a lot, a cap killer that the caps can't fight back against, and that's also very vulnerable to other subcaps. the T3BCs are the main example of something with over sized guns, as are stealth bombers using cruise missiles and torps. A cap killer would be a huge meta changer for null/low sec warfare, plus it would mean you've got capital guns in high sec. So the likely hood of it happening is rather low.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-06-19 18:39:43 UTC
I think the biggest problem with people wanting a cap-killing subcap is that:
A. caps are already vulnerable to subcaps
B. The whole idea itslef can already be achieved with regular battleships, Tier3s

And here is why, Take your Talos or Hyperion for example. You can fit these to do very high dps while sacrificing tank as was suggested to begin with. So this already exists in eve with a simple module switch.

If you want dread damage on a subcap: No. Thats what dreads are for and they have their major drawbacks because of it.

And am I reading this correctly? More expensive than a bomber? I hope you mean billions more expensive.

The basic premise of the capkilling subcap is based on the idea that subcaps cant kill caps, which is wrong.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#5 - 2014-06-19 19:06:56 UTC
The exact same suggestion has been made just 2 or 3 days ago and has been shot down for the same reasons this should be shot down. use the search function.

And no ship class gets implemented 'just because' or 'this would be cool' nowadays, if there isn't a role that's missing (as hinted in some of the comments), it won't even be considered and rightly so.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-06-19 20:06:34 UTC
What you just described sounded like a Black ops battleship
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation
#7 - 2014-06-19 20:19:38 UTC
Capitals to be perfectly honest aren't amazingly powerful... Dreadnoughts and Carriers die to relatively small groups of Battleships, Tech 3 and even HACs on a regular basis; they're surprisingly squishy provided you can catch them at the end of their Siege / Triage to prevent them from jumping out - which tends to be a 50 : 50 gamble who hits the button first.

Actually the massive mess begins and ends with the Supers as really they sit outside the normal Fleet composition.
On their own, actually they're not quite as OP as they might first appear; but the real issue that makes you feel like you're bashing your head against the wall is that there are multiple groups that frankly have become too rich and power that you see entire fleets of them now.

This is a disappointment as it greatly reduces their unique nature and roles, in-favour of an "I Win" button.
Realistically the best thing that CCP can do isn't design a ship specifically to combat them, but actually focus more on forcing them to be ships you can NEVER log-off... but give them "some" measure of safety by providing a Starbase "Docking Port" module that Supers can be "Docked" and "Safely Logged off" at.

Really I hope CCP does look into rebalancing the Capitals as a whole soon, the recent tweaks have been good; but Supers specifically do need to be readdressed; especially as Super Carriers exist because the Mothership wasn't amazing - but since the buff they're now used in such large numbers it might be time to roll them back a bit.

I dunno it's a big issue on the whole because there are a few potential roles; and some ships are "Multi-Tasking" in terms of the roles they play, which should be split up across a few Capitals and Supers.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-06-19 20:32:07 UTC
Rage Arjar wrote:
This idea has been thrown around a lot, a cap killer that the caps can't fight back against, and that's also very vulnerable to other subcaps. the T3BCs are the main example of something with over sized guns, as are stealth bombers using cruise missiles and torps. A cap killer would be a huge meta changer for null/low sec warfare, plus it would mean you've got capital guns in high sec. So the likely hood of it happening is rather low.

It is a neat idea, but has some issues. I would be mostly worried about effects on high sec. If these required a similar investment to build as marauders do, but had a tank similar to blops or non-resist bonused bc's it might be fair. Would need to be t2 with abnormally low resists for a t2 ship to discourage use in incursions or missions. High price would discourage suicide ganking. It might be nice to have something to quickly dispatch of freighters or orcas if caught during wardecs though. Significant cpu and pg decreases on respective capital guns combined with low fitting space in general could keep tanks in check.

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TheMercenaryKing
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-06-19 20:35:21 UTC
RavenTesio wrote:
Capitals to be perfectly honest aren't amazingly powerful... Dreadnoughts and Carriers die to relatively small groups of Battleships, Tech 3 and even HACs on a regular basis; they're surprisingly squishy provided you can catch them at the end of their Siege / Triage to prevent them from jumping out - which tends to be a 50 : 50 gamble who hits the button first.

Actually the massive mess begins and ends with the Supers as really they sit outside the normal Fleet composition.
On their own, actually they're not quite as OP as they might first appear; but the real issue that makes you feel like you're bashing your head against the wall is that there are multiple groups that frankly have become too rich and power that you see entire fleets of them now.

This is a disappointment as it greatly reduces their unique nature and roles, in-favour of an "I Win" button.
Realistically the best thing that CCP can do isn't design a ship specifically to combat them, but actually focus more on forcing them to be ships you can NEVER log-off... but give them "some" measure of safety by providing a Starbase "Docking Port" module that Supers can be "Docked" and "Safely Logged off" at.

Really I hope CCP does look into rebalancing the Capitals as a whole soon, the recent tweaks have been good; but Supers specifically do need to be readdressed; especially as Super Carriers exist because the Mothership wasn't amazing - but since the buff they're now used in such large numbers it might be time to roll them back a bit.

I dunno it's a big issue on the whole because there are a few potential roles; and some ships are "Multi-Tasking" in terms of the roles they play, which should be split up across a few Capitals and Supers.


With the new dev cycle, i hope its 1st or 2nd quarter of 2015. Recons, bombers, Tech 3s, and Black ops will come first and probably a quick repass on everything, then capitals.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#10 - 2014-06-19 21:51:54 UTC
Well, if the issue isn't verse capitals, why not increase the idea...

A BS that fits the racially appropriate Dooms Day? That is the only weapon allowed on the ship. Restrict Doomsdays to low, wormhole, and nul, so no need to bother with hi sec. The doomsday can only target supers and titans (can doomsdays target a structure?). Perhaps to balance (4 BS sized ships killing a titan would be a bit too much), there could also be a damage reduction so say 10 or whatever is balanced would kill a super.

Again, similar niche, would require a support fleet, would certainly liven up nul.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-06-19 23:11:55 UTC
Posting in a stealth freighter ganking buff thread.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-06-19 23:18:14 UTC
So...how much DPS would these things do? T1 or T2 hull?

Why fly one over a T3 BC?