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[Crius] Industry Landscape feedback

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Author
Sigras
Conglomo
#121 - 2014-06-18 19:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
CCP Greyscale wrote:
RAMs are working internally at least, I haven't verified SiSi but they *should* (apparently) be divided up there too.

sorry, apparently I was just looking at the show info window :( my bad...

Any thoughts on the 25% discount I seem to be getting for manufacturing in a POS instead of a station?

EDIT: to clarify, right now I seem to be getting a 25% material discount not a 25% job cost discount. When i put a BPC in for manufacturing at a POS, the build quote is 25% less than when I put that same BPC in at a station.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#122 - 2014-06-19 10:31:15 UTC
Sigras wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
RAMs are working internally at least, I haven't verified SiSi but they *should* (apparently) be divided up there too.

sorry, apparently I was just looking at the show info window :( my bad...

Any thoughts on the 25% discount I seem to be getting for manufacturing in a POS instead of a station?

EDIT: to clarify, right now I seem to be getting a 25% material discount not a 25% job cost discount. When i put a BPC in for manufacturing at a POS, the build quote is 25% less than when I put that same BPC in at a station.


That's almost certainly not by design and should be getting resolved soon.
Kitty Kanyon
Boundless Invention
#123 - 2014-06-19 13:40:33 UTC
I'm getting this error trying to invent:
Quote:

Unable to install job due to the following reasons:
The job cost has changed

Error.MISMATCH_COST (1284, 1020)


This was after successfully ran some invention jobs. I can't invent anything anymore.

From the UI:

  • Please list times as XXd XXm XXh XXs. This 00:00:00:00 in the UI is awful and confusing.
  • The window needs to be resizeable, specifically so it can be wider. Especially since there's no horizontal scroll bar.
  • Filter is nice, but you really should have the inventory filter here with custom filters.
  • Is it me, or has per run copy times for modules actually become longer? And a LOT longer? I thought copying was going to become shorter, not longer!
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2014-06-19 13:58:08 UTC
Copying has become longer on smaller items. However, you're supposed to be able to make a Max Run T2 BPC from 1 invention run from a T1 BPC. Post patch, you only invent 1 run on a T1 BPC, not the entire max run BPC. Or so I was led to believe after a short forum post clarification from CCP Grayscale. As of yesterday, SiSi was still not working as intended for this feature. So while copy time has indeed increased, where invention is concerned it has decreased. However, invention time has nearly doubled too. This isn't a problem for me because I only used one mobile lab and stacked jobs. Now I can do all 10 at once. What does concern me is the manufacturing time of the T2 BPC seems to have increased as well.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP

Captain Davy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2014-06-19 17:59:23 UTC
Just stealing the blue tag on this post.

Since Crius patch is industry stuff... can you guys finally deploy a "sell all" option, that would work similar to contract with checkboxes and each price listed with the respective +- % of the average sell price?

come on guys it is a pain to sell like 300 items. and i am sure this is a piece of cake to implement compared to the new industry UI.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#126 - 2014-06-19 22:28:57 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Droidyk wrote:
It is the opposite for me, every blueprint I invent ends up on 1 run no matter how many runs on tech I copy.


Every run should result in a max-run T2 BPC, subject to decryptors changing this. The runs on the T1 copy should make no difference. Note that T2 modules now have 10 max runs and T2 ships/rigs now have 1 max runs.


Max runs are 10 on Adaptive Invul Field II, I'm still getting 1 run on a T2 BPC after inventing.


I think there's still a bug there that Nullabor's got on his to-fix list.


Confirming this is a known issue, we will push a fix for it next week hopefully.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#127 - 2014-06-20 00:19:17 UTC
Sooo, when can we expect to not essentially pay more than double for T1 items? (job cost being the same or higher than material cost for said item)

Out of curiosity...what is the cut-off date for deciding too much is still broken to attempt to deploy in 1 months time....and or how many of these known (or otherwise obviously broken issues) bugs will be considered acceptable to deploy to TQ anyways.

I only ask because "will push for a fix next week hopefully" with only 5 weeks to deployment (after this whole thing was already pulled out of a release) makes me a bit leery.
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2014-06-20 00:45:21 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:
Sooo, when can we expect to not essentially pay more than double for T1 items? (job cost being the same or higher than material cost for said item)

Out of curiosity...what is the cut-off date for deciding too much is still broken to attempt to deploy in 1 months time....and or how many of these known (or otherwise obviously broken issues) bugs will be considered acceptable to deploy to TQ anyways.

I only ask because "will push for a fix next week hopefully" with only 5 weeks to deployment (after this whole thing was already pulled out of a release) makes me a bit leery.


Sounds like it's fixed internally but hasn't been approved for SiSi.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP

Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#129 - 2014-06-20 04:35:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex Nederland
Soldarius wrote:
Why does this keep coming up? The taxes you charge do NOT come out of players' wallets. They come out of the corp wallet to which that player has been given access. The player that uses the array is not paying for it, unless he/she is donating to the corp wallet. In which case, just have them donate. Or you can charge a nominal membership fee per month. Its the exact same effect without all the extra effort.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being able to set array fees. But until players can pay directly from their own wallet or select from a corp wallet like they can for market transactions, then array taxation does not work.

In order to copy a locked Blueprint in a Corporate Hangar, players have to be given access to a Corp Wallet and the job is a corporate job, regardless of station, starbase, or outpost. They can do this even if the only role they have is Query (fairly low risk). So, even post Crius changes, at least one corporation is going to have an access wallet setup for members to make BPCs from corporate BPO libray.

So, it is a tool others are currently using to manage access/use/funding of corporate assets. It does result in some click-overhead - donate Xk ISK to the Access Wallet to make copies/use array - but it is how we are managing our corps.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#130 - 2014-06-20 08:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
Going at a tangent here...

I have several thousand single-run BPCs that I use for invention. They are single run by the nature of needing single runs for invention, this means I have cans containing nothing but hundreds of them. It's a pain to manage.

Now we're going to be able to use multi-run BPCs can we please get a way of trading in our individual BPCs and getting them combined into higher runs?

Maybe with a contract based system similar to what I describe for fitting ships here where we could just contract a few hundred single-runs to a CCP toon and we'd get a contract back with as many max-runs as possible + leftovers.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#131 - 2014-06-20 10:04:08 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:
Out of curiosity...what is the cut-off date for deciding too much is still broken to attempt to deploy in 1 months time....and or how many of these known (or otherwise obviously broken issues) bugs will be considered acceptable to deploy to TQ anyways.

I only ask because "will push for a fix next week hopefully" with only 5 weeks to deployment (after this whole thing was already pulled out of a release) makes me a bit leery.


We are in really good shape with our current schedule, the issues we are seeing on SiSi are par for the course at this point in development.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Red Rose
Thundercats
The Initiative.
#132 - 2014-06-20 15:37:11 UTC
Is it possible to get any QA support on SISI testserver for upgrading outposts?
Due to the lack of dayly downtime its kinda an issue to upgrade current infrastructure for reserach reasons without support by Dev / GMs.
Chic Botany
Doomheim
#133 - 2014-06-21 06:17:29 UTC
After spending a while getting my reprocessing spreadsheet to work properly it was time to do my cap con sheet.

looked round the S&I interface and while yes it looks pretty, it lacks certain features.

Can't filter for BPO/BPC
No group so can't easily find "Carriers" need to type the ship name into the filter box
Hate the way that moving the scroll wheel on the mouse changes the 'Job Runs'

That aside, I started working on figures.

Started with a ME7% Nidhoggur

Ooh pretty icons on the top left for the components, but they seem to be in a weird order, not alphabetical (Propulsion engine first) thanks for making my life just a bit more difficult grrr

ok, so I need 11 Capital propulsion engines for 1 ship, but wait, I nudged my scroll wheel and now it shows 21, so moved it back and back to 11..... wait a minute, if 1 ship takes 11 propulsion engines, surely 2 ships will take 22, 3 ships take 33 etc...
nope, 11,21,31,41,52,62 so each ship seems to take 10.33333rec capital propulsion engines QuestionQuestionQuestion

When I look at other component figures, they also have some rounding going on and don't just multiply the figures for building 1 ship.

Please don't tell me this is correct? does it want a bug report or will a dev acknowledge this here so I know it's been looked at?



Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#134 - 2014-06-21 16:31:28 UTC
Chic Botany wrote:
After spending a while getting my reprocessing spreadsheet to work properly it was time to do my cap con sheet.

looked round the S&I interface and while yes it looks pretty, it lacks certain features.

Can't filter for BPO/BPC
No group so can't easily find "Carriers" need to type the ship name into the filter box
Hate the way that moving the scroll wheel on the mouse changes the 'Job Runs'

That aside, I started working on figures.

Started with a ME7% Nidhoggur

Ooh pretty icons on the top left for the components, but they seem to be in a weird order, not alphabetical (Propulsion engine first) thanks for making my life just a bit more difficult grrr

ok, so I need 11 Capital propulsion engines for 1 ship, but wait, I nudged my scroll wheel and now it shows 21, so moved it back and back to 11..... wait a minute, if 1 ship takes 11 propulsion engines, surely 2 ships will take 22, 3 ships take 33 etc...
nope, 11,21,31,41,52,62 so each ship seems to take 10.33333rec capital propulsion engines QuestionQuestionQuestion

When I look at other component figures, they also have some rounding going on and don't just multiply the figures for building 1 ship.

Please don't tell me this is correct? does it want a bug report or will a dev acknowledge this here so I know it's been looked at?





Supposedly they are using "Celing" in the formula, so if you need 10.00000000001, it will use 11, but multiple runs will make it be 20.00000000002, so "Ceiling" 21 etc.

I am not sure if they are going to ceiling before after final runs, but this could happen quite a lot and we will spend weeks finding break points on all BPO's to extract the most ships from the fewest resources
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#135 - 2014-06-23 10:01:58 UTC
Chic Botany wrote:
After spending a while getting my reprocessing spreadsheet to work properly it was time to do my cap con sheet.

looked round the S&I interface and while yes it looks pretty, it lacks certain features.

Can't filter for BPO/BPC
No group so can't easily find "Carriers" need to type the ship name into the filter box
Hate the way that moving the scroll wheel on the mouse changes the 'Job Runs'

That aside, I started working on figures.

Started with a ME7% Nidhoggur

Ooh pretty icons on the top left for the components, but they seem to be in a weird order, not alphabetical (Propulsion engine first) thanks for making my life just a bit more difficult grrr

ok, so I need 11 Capital propulsion engines for 1 ship, but wait, I nudged my scroll wheel and now it shows 21, so moved it back and back to 11..... wait a minute, if 1 ship takes 11 propulsion engines, surely 2 ships will take 22, 3 ships take 33 etc...
nope, 11,21,31,41,52,62 so each ship seems to take 10.33333rec capital propulsion engines QuestionQuestionQuestion

When I look at other component figures, they also have some rounding going on and don't just multiply the figures for building 1 ship.

Please don't tell me this is correct? does it want a bug report or will a dev acknowledge this here so I know it's been looked at?





11 * 0.93 = 10.23, so yeah, that's currently working as intended.
Ezeus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#136 - 2014-06-23 11:10:36 UTC
We did some test on SISI to produce ships from Null-sec amarr outposts. The material needed were reduced. It seems the Amarr outpost is applying a ME and PE bonus to production, reducing the amount of material needed. Is this intended or is this a bug ?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#137 - 2014-06-23 11:57:39 UTC
Ezeus wrote:
We did some test on SISI to produce ships from Null-sec amarr outposts. The material needed were reduced. It seems the Amarr outpost is applying a ME and PE bonus to production, reducing the amount of material needed. Is this intended or is this a bug ?



According to the dev blog and probably 50 dev replies over the past 4 weeks, it is most certainly working as intended
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#138 - 2014-06-24 19:53:57 UTC
Chic Botany wrote:

Ooh pretty icons on the top left for the components, but they seem to be in a weird order, not alphabetical (Propulsion engine first) thanks for making my life just a bit more difficult grrr


If you've done any industry in EvE before, you'll know that things are not sorted alphabetically. I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason for why they are the way they are, perhaps their entry numbers in the database or something like that, but I find it hard to believe that EvE following old patterns makes your life harder, not easier.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#139 - 2014-06-24 22:13:11 UTC
Any news on how will the wastage related skill change?
Bitter Fremlin
Heimatar Enhanced Fleet Industries
#140 - 2014-06-25 10:01:48 UTC
Dumb question time... Please humour someone with no access to Sisi.

We can find out a system's job cost variation post-Crius by starting to install a job at a facility there. But what happens when a system has no publicly available facilities? Will I have to visit each system under consideration, drop and anchor a small tower, anchor and online a lab (and maybe an assembly array), fake the job, then offline and unanchor everything and move on to the next?

Or will there be a Manufacturing Cost Index and Research Cost Index available in each system's info box, viewable by everyone from anywhere?