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A Crowdsourcing Goodbye, w/Stuff.

First post
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#121 - 2014-06-18 10:15:42 UTC
I will never buy the whole "nerf hi-sec so people will go to low/null". Thats because I never left h-sec for isk. What appeals me is less forced mechanics. Sandbox ftw.

The longer you play, the more you will have done. There's not a whole lot I havent done yet. But I do enjoy sci-fi, less talk, more shooting and the company of other people. So I'm good to go as long as there's more than 1 EVE subscription (mine).

If you're bored, you're bored. It happens. I had "breaks". Couldn't come up with a new story for a while. Others too, read about that right here. So forget about old players. Unless we go all "themepark" and add new missions, new incursions etc every month, they'll keep running into the same issue: Been there, done that, dont care anymore. Bored.

New players are a bit more tricky. On the one hand I don't think this is a game for everyone. If it was, I doubt it would have many depth or meaning. It has to cater to all and thus has to be bland to make sure nobody is confronted with stuff they don't like. That would not be my game.
When you start EVE, it may be prudent to explain more how it really works in tutorials. I haven't done them in a while, but I started with a "combat" tutorial. Which involved shooting NPC's. Thats not really combat. Thats missioning.

I sometimes think it takes too long to figure out that getting a kick out of things requires you to come up with something to get a kick out of achieving. The rest are just mechanics handing you options. It wouldn't hurt to explain that to new players.

My proposal:

Revamp the tutorials into what they really are: explanations on mechanics. So:
Tutorial one: Ships and modifications - fitting tutorial
Tutorial two: Using your ship - undocking, moving, warping, shooting etc
Tutorial three: Skills and their progression
Tutorial four: Making ISK - mining, missioning, trading etc
- probing

Explain during the tutorial what each step is about and finish everything eventually with a fast recap:
"You have now learned to use your ship and how to make money. You can use these skills to expand your assets and abilities. You are now ready to make your own path in EVE. You can experiment a while or join up with others a learn of their plans. And never forget capsuleer: When in doubt; right-click."
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy
Caldari State
#122 - 2014-06-18 10:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Smacks
I get a little giggle for people saying there is more pvp than ever. First off more pvp in lo-sec? Are you serious?
More from when? If there is so much, why is there so few ships destroyed with comparison of just a year ago and even HUGER difference from 2 years ago? You can say wormhole space has more activity all day long but this fact can't be proven so its just too easy to say.

The reality is in EvE, the older players get, the less likely they are to seek out other older players. In reality what is in essence going on is the Developers have created this world where they have all the very old accounts just actively seeking out the very young accounts.

Now who in their right mind would actually want to start a game where they will be picked on constantly unless they are forced into a group of people they may not like (a corporation) so they can achieve safety so they can sit around hoping to pick on new people one day? Is it really so unimaginable that people are not standing in line for this?
Is it really so hard to understand that of the average MMO gamers EvE is most likely to appeal to maybe 1 in 10?
Is it further hard to understand that every MMO gamer knows at least 1 other MMO gamer?
Do you really believe EvE is getting loads of positive responses from others experiences?

Eve had many things going for it while the other MMO's were behind but that's all changing. From theft of good content to just horrible PR from old players this games life is heading down a negative path. Other games are catching up now, with their "player controlled markets" to "players make all the real changes in the world". These are not new concepts, but they sure were while EvE was succeeding. I can directly point to Archeage, which is ripe full of EvE concepts and although it is in Alpha has at least 3 former EvE players I know myself.

The real problem seems CCP's lack of a ideas, or fear of implementing ideas that will scare off the top tier. That is the amusing part, as the top tier are whats scaring off the new players. But apparently they believe now new players are not as important as the old, and are willing to risk them. Let me remind you Ultima Online tried this very idea, which has now been sold for the 4th time, it didn't work and it wont work for you.
Marcus Gord
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2014-06-18 11:06:32 UTC
something to bring in new players/bring back old ones?

do something with the CQ to make it actually have a use beyond staring at your character and sitting on the couch.

give us one of those games that were talked about long ago to be played against other people for ISK, just put the table for it in the CQ. that's one idea. playing blackjack vs other players, with us all in our own CQs, playing for ISK? i might actually use the CQ for that.

In a few moments you will have an experience that will seem completely real. It will be the result of your subconscious fears transformed to your conscious awareness.

T'amber Demaleon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2014-06-18 12:01:23 UTC
you can't ever leave, trust me... :(
Marcus Gord
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#125 - 2014-06-18 12:13:55 UTC
'you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.....'

In a few moments you will have an experience that will seem completely real. It will be the result of your subconscious fears transformed to your conscious awareness.

Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#126 - 2014-06-18 12:25:42 UTC
I posted earlier about retaining newbies with new tutorial tricks. Now an idea to keep vets and maybe even newbs.

CONCORD run capsuleer tournaments.

I pay an entry fee through an interface to concord based on the class of ship I wish to participate in. Say it costs me 50 mil to get in with an assault frigate and 150 mil to get in with a battleship.

Tournaments are only run in systems with a tournament office in a station. Once entered I get a bookmark to deadspace as does my opponent. Concord insures the match is kept fair with no outside participants. If I win, I continue facing opponents. Winner takes the others entrance fees minus concord's cut for the service. (Money sink)

The entry fees should line up with what it costs to field a tech 2 variant of the class which means you could bring a shiny ship but the payout will not be several times the shiny, just several times the tech 2 cost.

Dex Lysia
#127 - 2014-06-18 16:23:10 UTC
Thank you for donation - OP is indeed one of the good guys.
Sheila Kiran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2014-06-18 18:29:21 UTC
The tutorial missions could use a bit more polish, but trying to engage players into pvp using pve elements is tough.

Further missions which dig deep into what makes eve so tough with perhaps multiple ways of completing an objective, for instance there is a plex that the new player warps into. Then they can either begin attacking a structure which spawns npcs, do some hacking or salvagin of some object. Begin teaching the player from when they start there is always more than one path to take and it should be encouraged.

Keep talking about how you as a player must take fate into your own hands and do whatever you want.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#129 - 2014-06-18 20:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Brujo Loco
Only idea I have supported for a LOOOONG time is the need to add new landmass NON CONQUERABLE by current Status Quo holders (and this was in 2007 so no hard feelings to anyone these days) , they can keep their current known universe, whoever the status quo holders are, add some islands in the Caribbean open to all with safe ports but dangerous surrounding waters.

People have debated this , said yes, nay, what, ugh, carebear, nullbear, hater, etc, it´s just an idea.

But I still dream of a set of safe hi sec islands, with sustainable mission/mining/fw hubs surrounded by low sec and now, K-Space holes.

Something to breathe away from Null for those that enjoy other aspects of the game and Capital Ships online with Jump Bridges Online with twitch livestreams to show 3000 ships lagging at the same time and get adrenaline jolts for slo-mo stuff and then count imaginary money "lost".

In this Hell we all share, not everyone enjoys the same tortures of others.

But that´s just me. Waiting for that since 2007, and 7 years later all I see is the same, and I have been here since 2005 waiting for a LOT to change, but I´m a patient one Big smile, perhaps in 7 more years?

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco:

All Kill No Skill
#130 - 2014-06-18 21:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Brooks Puuntai wrote:

Hmmm... I consider you one of the better good-trolls, compared to the flood of bad-trolls in forums. More thought less strong arming. Ah well o7

Remove highsec. Lowsec too..
Expand newbie areas a little, the only protected areas, but impose diminishing returns so that they don't continue to inhabit that area for extended periods of time.
Remove most of the NPC corps that players can join, just one common per race, and one per FW militia npc corp. Increasing tax over time.
Taxation against any player corps with less than 20 members.
To spam space from an NPC trade hub, well you can't, you need to exit the hub and float in space to spam, making you vulnerable to attack. No NPC station chat at all.
Hmm... short but all related as you can see. And of course no thought or request towards ever working on WiS again, it's EVE heresy.

edit: such as from a cross-post: just remove high/low and don't let players hide in NPC stations any longer, no more hiding behind the system for anyone, no CONCORD nor any such system as such. Let alliances bloody well police their own territory. Let alliances determine auto-penalties for attacking other alliance members. Break a lot of the existing gates, more choke points, more defensible system chains for alliances. Turn the map into basically a lot of islands.

So yeah, this effectively puts more sandbox into the sandbox.

I'm in it for the money


Christus Estnatus Hemanseh
#131 - 2014-06-18 22:04:16 UTC
EVE is a gerontocracy, with all the bads from it. Management is old, devs are old, players are old. They mostly stick with this game because of each other. Noobs are not really wanted nor liked.

Whatever a noob begins in EVE today, he's in a massive disadvantage to veteran players. He doesn't knows the game, the mechanics, the unwritten rules. He doesn't knows the tools, which are not in EVE. He's learniing a game where everything has been learned, weighted, measured to the point that just shifting the well-established stats is deemed "worthy" by the savvies.

The only way a noob haves a real chance, is in doing totally new stuff that hasn't been exploited to boredom. But even that CCP has got it wrong: they're adding new space to the current endgame of sov nullsec. The chances a noob will have to see new space will be zero. They are not wanted there unless they're friends of friends from outside the game.

Station content was a good idea. Stations can be accesed by everyone, everywhere, just as wormhole space. Puting gates in sov space and new content behind the gates it's the stupidest idea ever -new content is where new players can shine, build themselves a name, learn something nobody learned before. Hiding it behind the depths of the gerontocracy is going to serve nothing.

So, tL;dR: if there's no other chance but to build stargates to new space, make them accesible right from the start, for even the greenest noobs. Don't hide it behind the greedy dead hands of the elder players.

All Kill No Skill
#132 - 2014-06-18 22:19:03 UTC
Christus Estnatus Hemanseh wrote:
Whatever a noob begins in EVE today, he's in a massive disadvantage to veteran players.
You're new, eh? Newbies have it better than ever before. And now with multi-training, most vets even run low-SP alt characters, have a blast. Newbies at a disadvantage is a misnomer, something you more would experience in a level-progression themepark game.

I'm in it for the money


ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#133 - 2014-06-18 23:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
While I won't go as far as biomassing, removing liquid assets would deter me from randomly plexing only to troll forums. Which I'm sure the ISD and CCP will be grateful for.
Yes, yes we are...Big smile

But I rather have you trolling on the forums and playing EvE at the same time.

I have also removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
The Rules:
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.

Oh and OP, you wanted a redirect? I have arranged that for you.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#134 - 2014-06-19 00:04:26 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
But I rather have you trolling on the forums and playing EvE at the same time.

Ezwal stared in horror at his monitor. What have I done? It was too late to do anything about it now. Even if he did edit his own post with his ISD powers, he knew that the trolls would have already viewed his comment, many of them vowing to make him regret those fateful words.

Ezwal pushed his keyboard forward and slowly stood up. He walked slowly to the window, placed his palms on the cool glass and stared out at the sprawling city beyond. I cant believe I said that. What have I done?

He reached into his pocket and pulled out a crumpled cigarette. He did his best to straighten it before placing it in his mouth and fumbling around in his pocket for the lighter he knew was there. After a brief search he found his prize and used it. Ezwal slowly inhaled the smoke and savored it for as long as he could before slowly exhaling. I better get back in there.. he said in his head before turning back to the computer.

Trolls were coming, at least he was able to get a smoke before the onslaught...

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Sadar Ovaert
#135 - 2014-06-19 00:48:49 UTC
Remove missions and mining. That should thin out the people that really don't want to play this game
Squirrel Team
#136 - 2014-06-19 02:12:53 UTC
Remove local chat as an intel source.

Dum Spiro Spero

Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2014-06-19 02:22:31 UTC
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2014-06-19 03:17:20 UTC
One of the biggest issues is its hard for new players to understand or get into the meta game. (which imo is where the fun is)

I propose -->

Use captains quarters tv screens to have a in character news show of what is happening in eve.

- null sec battles / poltics
- high sec ganking / miner bumping etc etc
- eve tornament coverage
- WH space ganks / pvp battles
- Profiles on player corporations and how to join/find.
- industry stats show etc, how much produced etc biggest trade hubs etc

Eg - have a immersive ingame way of showing all the player vs player content. Currently the only way to tell what is happening player vs player is via the forums or 3rd party sites. New players arnt likely to see these. (they might see the forums but once they read GD they gunna back away fast lol.)

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

#139 - 2014-06-19 04:12:20 UTC
Confirming OP offer is valid.

ISK received.

Thank you.
Majuan Shuo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2014-06-19 05:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Majuan Shuo
Add a casino service to stations.

A lot of us have way to much money and not enough time to blow it. A lot of us also like poker. And slots. And drinks with umbrellas in them.

Make it an optional part of walk-in-stations and you may just see people use that feature... EVE is about being in a cold, heartless universe - what is more heartless than a casino?

Seriously, when I ~first~ heard about walk-in-stations I was sure casino bars where a shoe-in, years later: just that damned door...

EVE Poker and BLINK is fun, but an in-game service is far more accessible.

PS - it also tackles ISK inflation.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar