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Dev blog: Starbase changes for Crius

First post First post
Author
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#141 - 2014-06-16 23:10:35 UTC
probag Bear wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
At what point is a POS supposed to be worth it?

I save 10% taxes, sure, but then I'm paying fuel costs instead. So if manufacturing costs are 10% of sell price (probably overestimating), I would need to produce 20bil/mo worth of goods at a small POS in order to make it worth it vs producing at an NPC station in the same system? That's a total of 27mil/hr...

Seems a little absurd, especially considering that manufacturing costs will probably (hopefully) be less than 10%.


A large POS is currently cost-effective for one character, using all 10 manufacturing slots and no science slots, making T1 items with terrible, sub-par, profits. POS bonuses are already insanely strong. And they're getting stronger.

Except that it's now going to cost a significant chunk of change on top of the fuel costs in order to manufacture things.
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#142 - 2014-06-16 23:18:52 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
probag Bear wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
At what point is a POS supposed to be worth it?

I save 10% taxes, sure, but then I'm paying fuel costs instead. So if manufacturing costs are 10% of sell price (probably overestimating), I would need to produce 20bil/mo worth of goods at a small POS in order to make it worth it vs producing at an NPC station in the same system? That's a total of 27mil/hr...

Seems a little absurd, especially considering that manufacturing costs will probably (hopefully) be less than 10%.


A large POS is currently cost-effective for one character, using all 10 manufacturing slots and no science slots, making T1 items with terrible, sub-par, profits. POS bonuses are already insanely strong. And they're getting stronger.

Except that it's now going to cost a significant chunk of change on top of the fuel costs in order to manufacture things.


That significant chunk of change that is just going to be 10% higher if you don't use a POS.
Flay Nardieu
#143 - 2014-06-17 00:03:37 UTC
Hmm...


  1. Completely Removing Empire Standings for POS operation - Makes about as much sense as having Hun villages deep in the Roman Empire while they are at war
  2. Now we have to pay to use our own equipment? Sorry stupid idea, why pay 'Taxes' or "hire' to run jobs in high-sec you have to have a 'lease' per hour while tower is online, if a man-power aspect is so wanted have appropriate "livestock" group required in the structure's build just like in Outposts
  3. Removal of remote from office in system - wow apparently CCP totally wants to disregard technologies that predate their own company's existence in the real world in their virtual one


Many of the additions are intriguing and make sense, however making the game universe less logical (or intelligent) to add complexity and/or change to it is counter intuitive. Also the new S&I interface as of the last time I was on SIsi is mainly window dressing (soon as recheck it and find proper place for feedback to that I will go into detail there).

My disappointment is every increasing. Truth be told, first and last items won't affect me one iota, I already have characters and corporations that can anchor in high-sec in 2 empires. I am irked on principle.
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#144 - 2014-06-17 00:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: asteroidjas
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Neat little chart with info:
rug Lab, Ammunition Assembly, Drone Assembly, Component Assembly, Equipment Assembly, Rapid Equipment Assembly 0.5% per max'ing at 25%

So, what your are telling me is to get any worthwhile reduction to the extra job cost, i'm gna need to anchor (and keep online) 50 (FIFTY!!!) of each of those arrays at the same tower?!!?!?!???

Is that even possible? That sounds like one of the more bassackwards ideas i've yet to read about related to Crius. Have fun sorting through that list of POS arrays to build from in that tiny little section of the new Industry UI.

-edit-
Umm, just ran the numbers on the example of "13 medium ship arrays"....yeah...thats 2.6m PG and 6.5M CPU Good luck with that.

How did you guys come up with these numbers?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#145 - 2014-06-17 00:41:10 UTC
defenseless tower in a 0.9 packed with arrays is the new thing. the result should be obvious
MaverickG
Monkey Scumbucket Consortium
Shadow Ultimatum
#146 - 2014-06-17 00:42:35 UTC
Theodore Knox wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
Why does it cost to build things at a POS? I built the POS, I'm paying for fuel for it, why am I getting charged again to manufacture things?


There needs to be an ISK sink in every game activity, to spread the sinking of ISK evenly. Wouldn't want one category of player complaining about how other's get off scot-free, would we?

Or are you asking for a "back story" reason? Ugh


The sink is fuel and risk of loosing pos and arrays. Why pos manufacturing at starbase need more than one sink?
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#147 - 2014-06-17 00:53:37 UTC
... Standings clarifications for CRIUS.... needs more "Psssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" ! ! !

Evil




"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#148 - 2014-06-17 00:56:42 UTC
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#149 - 2014-06-17 01:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
asteroidjas wrote:


How did you guys come up with these numbers?


You mean you haven't heard of that "Pssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhh" method now favoured in the upper echelons? Y'know, the one that's very similar to the enormously popular "pulling numbers out of thin air" method... or random orifices, for that matter ?

Cilly bunt

Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

JediRobin
Globaltech Industries
#150 - 2014-06-17 01:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: JediRobin
I do hope CCP makes it easy to unlock and relock down all our 100s of BPO's.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#151 - 2014-06-17 02:00:11 UTC
'I built this factory! Why should I have to pay for any workers or upkeep?!'

Blink

Quote:

I ground up to standing 8.0!

Congratulations. You ground higher than you needed too, for a specific benefit. However, you do have another benefit you're not losing. The reduction of broker fees. (There's a corp fee reduction, and a faction fee reduction)

Considering how easy it is to bypass the limitation, POS standing limitations were bad complexity, limiting mostly newbie, and disinventivizing allowing newbies into corp.



A POS benefit people might not have noticed:

If your POS is in a system without any industrial options, the number of hours of industry in that system will be lower. Which reduces your build costs. Exactly how that works out depends how many of the 2.5 billion minutes of jobs per month are done in system.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Flay Nardieu
#152 - 2014-06-17 02:01:06 UTC
I say the devs, content producers, etc be required to be sober during entire planning and development of releases, apparently Icelandic brew are affecting their judgement Twisted
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#153 - 2014-06-17 02:01:43 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
'I built this factory! Why should I have to pay for any workers or upkeep?!'

Blink

cue the highsec industrialist "you built that" themed 2015 convention
FaeVerite
Perkone
Caldari State
#154 - 2014-06-17 02:03:13 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
With Crius, the next EVE Online release to be published on July 22nd, major changes will come to Industry and with that you will also see tweaks and changes related to player-owned starbases (POS).

A brief overview of the most important changes:
  • Reprocessing POS Arrays will change and be more efficient
  • Compression Arrays will be introduced
  • Other industry related Arrays (eg. for research, invention and manufacturing) will receive a bonus for each additionally similar structure anchored at the same POS
  • Faction standing requirements to anchor POS are removed
  • Starbase Defense Management skill requires only Anchoring 4 instead of Anchoring 5

Much more information and all the details are available in CCP Ytterbium's latest dev blog Starbase changes for Crius.


So despite many pages from a large group of industrial players informing CCP this was a bad idea and players canceling subscriptions,
CCP intends to ignore a large group of players to placate a small group that the industrial players actually enable.

Bad Business Plan. Good Luck with maintaining a game or company when your customers leave.
Flay Nardieu
#155 - 2014-06-17 02:05:39 UTC
FaeVerite wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
With Crius, the next EVE Online release to be published on July 22nd, major changes will come to Industry and with that you will also see tweaks and changes related to player-owned starbases (POS).

A brief overview of the most important changes:
  • Reprocessing POS Arrays will change and be more efficient
  • Compression Arrays will be introduced
  • Other industry related Arrays (eg. for research, invention and manufacturing) will receive a bonus for each additionally similar structure anchored at the same POS
  • Faction standing requirements to anchor POS are removed
  • Starbase Defense Management skill requires only Anchoring 4 instead of Anchoring 5

Much more information and all the details are available in CCP Ytterbium's latest dev blog Starbase changes for Crius.


So despite many pages from a large group of industrial players informing CCP this was a bad idea and players canceling subscriptions,
CCP intends to ignore a large group of players to placate a small group that the industrial players actually enable.

Bad Business Plan. Good Luck with maintaining a game or company when your customers leave.


Apparently yes,
Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2014-06-17 02:52:05 UTC
Just wondering why we don't have, or if we will ever get MINERAL compression in addition to Ore Compression.

Also wondering when we will get a balance to the haulers so that you reprocessed Ice Products can fit in a Kryos, or LO can be 'ammo' if a cyno is fit.

Aresti
Black Eclipse Corp
#157 - 2014-06-17 03:11:32 UTC
Only giving the reprocessing arrays 200k m3 capacity is more than a bit shortsighted. Not even a JF load, much less a freighter, which just adds to the clicks individuals who refine large amounts of ore will have to do.

Are there any plans to adjust this from the stated (and also current) capacity to a larger one more appropriate for the batch jobs players will be doing? 5-10 Mil m3 would be a good start, matching the compression array with 20mil would be awesome.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#158 - 2014-06-17 04:31:57 UTC
Eodp Ellecon wrote:
Just wondering why we don't have, or if we will ever get MINERAL compression in addition to Ore Compression.

Also wondering when we will get a balance to the haulers so that you reprocessed Ice Products can fit in a Kryos, or LO can be 'ammo' if a cyno is fit.



Minerals ARE the refined product... ores... mostly crap that you have to smelt out, so those crazy devs have decided you can squeeze the crap smaller.

Cool, huh ?



"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#159 - 2014-06-17 06:10:20 UTC
GiveMeATry wrote:
Some reason I feel like I'm getting F@#$# in the ass. So glad I spent the last year grinding out a 8.0 faction standing with Caldari.

So what does that give me now? A good hand shake.. now any Tom **** or Hairy Gallentee scum can put up a tower in Caldari Space.. Also I feel like as a newly minted solo POS owner I'm getting F@#$#@ed.




It's not CCP's fault you were too stupid to pay 60m isk to get a POS anchored. You were asked "bumpy ride or horse phallus replica?" and you chose the latter. Now the ass ******* has been removed entirely and replaced with a cake and you're complaining why you can't be violated a bit more to make yourself feel worthwhile.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#160 - 2014-06-17 06:17:31 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Neat little chart with info:
rug Lab, Ammunition Assembly, Drone Assembly, Component Assembly, Equipment Assembly, Rapid Equipment Assembly 0.5% per max'ing at 25%

So, what your are telling me is to get any worthwhile reduction to the extra job cost, i'm gna need to anchor (and keep online) 50 (FIFTY!!!) of each of those arrays at the same tower?!!?!?!???

Is that even possible? That sounds like one of the more bassackwards ideas i've yet to read about related to Crius. Have fun sorting through that list of POS arrays to build from in that tiny little section of the new Industry UI.

-edit-
Umm, just ran the numbers on the example of "13 medium ship arrays"....yeah...thats 2.6m PG and 6.5M CPU Good luck with that.

How did you guys come up with these numbers?



http://i.imgur.com/q1LMZrC.png


...Yes it is clearly impossible to online 13 arrays.