These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Starbase changes for Crius

First post First post
Author
Veldar Reku
Wu Xi Holdings
#101 - 2014-06-16 19:24:42 UTC
No problem with these stacking benefits. Maybe have a more logarithmic scaling factor instead of linear, but otherwise it's good.

I don't think anyone is going to go crazy onlining/offlining stuff at a whim just to save a few ISK. The difference will be whether people will scale down to small towers or keep running large ones. ISK for fuel vs. ISK in saving install costs kind of a deal.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#102 - 2014-06-16 19:25:10 UTC  |  Edited by: I Love Boobies
So... any news yet on the Rorqual since you're pretty much screwing them over with the compression changes? Like... you guys have any ideas where you are wanting to head with it? Or are you just gonna leave it as it is for years until you decide something should be done about it like 90% of the crap you do in game?

And yes... I'm bitter.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#103 - 2014-06-16 19:31:18 UTC
Letto Atreides wrote:
Meizu Kho wrote:
concerning the online/offline workarounds for the build cost bonus i would like to remind CCP off what they once told us:

no matter how boring, tedious or time consuming an activity is, if it's the most efficient/safest way of doing it, the players will do it.

If you allow people to take advantage of a 26% build cost advantage without having to risk 13 arrays of the same type because they can offline and unancher then during the job they will do it. they will get freighters with 12 arrays ready and do it every job.

I don't mind the bonus but i do if you can dodge the risk.


In an earlier post I mentioned the idea of changing from 13 arrays to a single array that had to be upgraded (13 times). This mechanic would prevent the hack you are describing here.


This makes a bit more sense. Treat it like a Command Center that has upgrade levels. Anchoring 13 of these things seems a bit silly.

It is also comical that a POS can't build its own POS modules.

I can't say if this is good or not, but its... just odd.

It forces people to mass produce these things for the sole purpose of anchoring them... its.. Wonky.

Yaay!!!!

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#104 - 2014-06-16 19:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
I Love Boobies wrote:
So... any news yet on the Rorqual since you're pretty much screwing them over with the compression changes? Like... you guys have any ideas where you are wanting to head with it? Or are you just gonna leave it as it is for years until you decide something should be done about it like 90% of the crap you do in game?

And yes... I'm bitter.


Understandable. I don't quite see what would cause a fleet to commit a billion isk Rorqual to an asteriod field, unless they decide to give it a reinforce timer like a POS.

Rorqual comes to asteriod belt with friends, begins mining. Has massive bay for collecting the ores.

Enemy gang comes in, kills friends and attack rorqual. Rorqual hits Autobot Transformation mode and reinforces itself for an hour. Enemy gang hangs out waiting for Rorqual to drop out of Reinforce Mode. Friendly's come in and kills gang, Rorqual drops out, everybody continues mining.

Or nobody comes and Rorqual Dies Comically.

I'm just blowing smoke out my Tuccus.

Or the Rorqual now turns into a Bus that can teleport itself and other Mining ships (all barges and the mining frigate), to distant belts (same method as it travels now, person lights Cyno. Rorqual jumps itself and its mining fleet over to destination to begin ninja minings).

It's a very weak version of a Titan bridge (cept the Rorqual jumps too, and it can only jump mining ships).

I actually like that idea. Ninja mining ships with its Ninja Mining Mothership (Rorqual), there to jump it out and save them.

Yaay!!!!

Odin Shadow
ZC Industries
Dark Stripes
#105 - 2014-06-16 19:36:25 UTC
so for a comp assembly array to get max discount you need to anchour 50 of them??

i must be missing something cos that can not be right?
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#106 - 2014-06-16 19:38:19 UTC
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
Chribba wrote:
"In practice, this means that stacking 13 Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Assembly or Subsystem Assembly Arrays will reduce the total cost to start a manufacturing job at any of those structures by 26%."

So if there is no tax at my own POS - what's the deal with the bonus that gives me a reduction to cost? Or did I mistake that for like mineral reduction cost?


Reading through this thread, it appears that POS jobs will have an ISK-sink/payment to NPC cost requirement per job. I believe the multiple arrays will reduce that cost.

Jobs that are run at an NPC station will have an additional 10% tax added on to the total job cost as well as not being able to benefit from the multiple array bonus.

So my original statement that I will now be taxed at my own POS is correct?

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Meizu Kho
Kho Incorporated
The Lone Space Wolves
#107 - 2014-06-16 19:43:23 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
Chribba wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Chribba wrote:
Arrgh dem starbases!

... Veldqual, you shall never compress again Sad

Structure cost scaling - I will have to pay tax at my own starbase? (Haven't followed the discussion on this)

/c


You have to pay the installation (or build) cost where ever you install jobs.

There's an additional 10% tax on top of that for NPC stations.

So, not only will I put out a lot of ISK building a POS with modules, I'm getting taxed on my own production in my own POS (eg tax that is paid to SCC or something)? That sounds stupid...


NPC stations. Not POS, NPC stations. There's an additional 10% tax on NPC station jobs.

Which is why I was asking because this doesn't make sense to me then:

"In practice, this means that stacking 13 Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Assembly or Subsystem Assembly Arrays will reduce the total cost to start a manufacturing job at any of those structures by 26%."

So if there is no tax at my own POS - what's the deal with the bonus that gives me a reduction to cost? Or did I mistake that for like mineral reduction cost?


As i see it there is always a cost for hiring a team, even a standard one without bonuses and it depends on how much is produced in the system. this is also where the 26% reduction is deducted from. if you produce from a station there is an additional tax. If you produce from a pos there is no tax but a pos discount.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#108 - 2014-06-16 19:44:28 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
Chribba wrote:
"In practice, this means that stacking 13 Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Assembly or Subsystem Assembly Arrays will reduce the total cost to start a manufacturing job at any of those structures by 26%."

So if there is no tax at my own POS - what's the deal with the bonus that gives me a reduction to cost? Or did I mistake that for like mineral reduction cost?


Reading through this thread, it appears that POS jobs will have an ISK-sink/payment to NPC cost requirement per job. I believe the multiple arrays will reduce that cost.

Jobs that are run at an NPC station will have an additional 10% tax added on to the total job cost as well as not being able to benefit from the multiple array bonus.

So my original statement that I will now be taxed at my own POS is correct?


well... yes.

Some global job cost scaling effect with modifiers from local system manufacturing job numbers.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#109 - 2014-06-16 19:48:59 UTC
Anders Madeveda wrote:
Congratulations CCP, in your quest to REDUCE the amount of clicks required by Industrialists in the game, you have created a Golem of clicks in the form of stacking arrays for discounts. Just when I thought you were on the right track you pull defeat from the jaws of victory.


Thank the real architects of this, the null sec cartel CSM reps.
They have created a monstrosity that is now some complicated, so nuanced, that only the ones that are deeply involved, deeply committed, will profit. To suggest this new system is simpler than the current system is just Orwell-speak.

This is the death of the high sec casual industrialist, as designed.
Oh, and those same high sec casuals all have alt corps ready to go when the inevitable war dec grief appears.

Just brilliant design.
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#110 - 2014-06-16 19:49:14 UTC
Chribba wrote:
So my original statement that I will now be taxed at my own POS is correct?


Yes, as far as I can tell. I guess there was the need for an additional ISK sink? The market reaction should be interesting to say the least.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#111 - 2014-06-16 19:51:55 UTC
Thanks everyone. Now to figure out if all them Slaves I freed during the years want to return the favor... Lol

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-06-16 19:58:44 UTC
some time ago in the original industry devblogs greyscale said that you would look into allowing the production of towers, pos mods and containers in one of the arrays.

did not see that in the devblog, is there an update for this ?
Kalorian
Lyrix Industries
#113 - 2014-06-16 20:02:51 UTC
I think many are forgetting where eve is heading storyline wise.

I've ready many posts about the faction standings no longer being taken into account being "game breaking" or "taking away from the immersion"

Remember capsuleers have defied the empire factions and are starting to do their own thing. This is another step in that direction in which the empire rules no longer matter.

Not necessarily agreeing with the stacking bonuses and mass components needed. I think the POS UI changes should've come first then have the ability similar to Outposts and install upgrades instead of having a ton of items floating around in space. Or having the POS work like ship fitting works to allow easier configuration and management of the POS. I can see steps going towards that direction just wonder of this 'enhancement' / change was a little cart before the horse.

Being a past industrialist I can agree with some of the insight and concerns brought up in regards to high sec industrialists. You have a good portion of your play base that just wants to run missions and or build something from the ground up. This puts more emphasis in high sec wars for the chances to get shiny BPO drops from POS bashing rather than fixing 0.0 sov mechanics and getting the fights out in lawless space. Empire space, even with the story line / developmental change should still be relatively safe for those that choose to play this game on a casual level.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out post-crius.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#114 - 2014-06-16 20:14:53 UTC
Kalorian wrote:
I think many are forgetting where eve is heading storyline wise.

I've ready many posts about the faction standings no longer being taken into account being "game breaking" or "taking away from the immersion"

Remember capsuleers have defied the empire factions and are starting to do their own thing. This is another step in that direction in which the empire rules no longer matter.

Not necessarily agreeing with the stacking bonuses and mass components needed. I think the POS UI changes should've come first then have the ability similar to Outposts and install upgrades instead of having a ton of items floating around in space. Or having the POS work like ship fitting works to allow easier configuration and management of the POS. I can see steps going towards that direction just wonder of this 'enhancement' / change was a little cart before the horse.

Being a past industrialist I can agree with some of the insight and concerns brought up in regards to high sec industrialists. You have a good portion of your play base that just wants to run missions and or build something from the ground up. This puts more emphasis in high sec wars for the chances to get shiny BPO drops from POS bashing rather than fixing 0.0 sov mechanics and getting the fights out in lawless space. Empire space, even with the story line / developmental change should still be relatively safe for those that choose to play this game on a casual level.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out post-crius.


Those high sec players that you describe, particularly those liked to dabble in industry, are finished. Sure, they can make some product at who knows what cost, but there is zero chance of them being competitive with null sec or low sec hard core players.

All in favour of the "play with lots of alts, or die" trend.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2014-06-16 20:29:10 UTC
there are plenty of things out there with high margins and low overall profit, often more than 30%. Those will remain profitable in highsec :)

the more advanced stuff and the more expensive stuff will move out to null. good changes :)

Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-06-16 20:30:39 UTC
I will admit I have not followed the original threads from the beginning, along with all the changes, but it seems to me most of the early "complaints" players have brought up have not been resolved and CCP is proceeding as usual...
Kalorian
Lyrix Industries
#117 - 2014-06-16 20:31:43 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Those high sec players that you describe, particularly those liked to dabble in industry, are finished. Sure, they can make some product at who knows what cost, but there is zero chance of them being competitive with null sec or low sec hard core players.

All in favour of the "play with lots of alts, or die" trend.


I would hope the objective isn't to get the casual player base to purchase a bunch of alt accounts. The true player base of EVE is currently convoluted with all the alts running around. I hope CCP is considering the balance of these and future changes to not force the casual player into the more complex / complicated dynamics that come with this game. It will alienate a certain segment of the player base and this is not good for the game and definitely not good for business.
GiveMeATry
Storm Chasers.
All My Friends Are Ded
#118 - 2014-06-16 20:36:42 UTC
Some reason I feel like I'm getting F@#$# in the ass. So glad I spent the last year grinding out a 8.0 faction standing with Caldari.

So what does that give me now? A good hand shake.. now any Tom **** or Hairy Gallentee scum can put up a tower in Caldari Space.. Also I feel like as a newly minted solo POS owner I'm getting F@#$#@ed.
Meytal
Doomheim
#119 - 2014-06-16 20:43:15 UTC
Previously, we would queue jobs in manufacturing/research slots when we ran out of empty slots, or because we were only allowed to use certain slots, or just out of consideration for the next guy.

Now, there will be a cost for installing jobs which presumably increases as the number of parallel/simultaneous jobs increase.

Will it be possible to run, say, 5 simultaneous job queues of two 12-hour jobs per queue instead of 10 simultaneous jobs at 12 hours each? This means 5 jobs would complete in 12 hours and the other 5 jobs would complete in 24 hours instead of the 10 simultaneous jobs that all complete in 12 hours for (theoretically) twice the cost? It can be important for many of us to time the completion of jobs to correspond with our gaming times.


In Hisec, Lowsec, and NPC Null, the "taxes" you pay theoretically get sent to the resident governing body. To whom are these "taxes" being paid in Sov Null and especially in Wormhole space? Neither Concord, nor SCC, nor any empire body has any standing or presence in Sov Null or wormhole space; the residents see to that.

Will industry in Sov Null POSes/Outposts and in W-space POSes also require some form of ISK payment to some ethereal empire presence to start jobs?
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-06-16 20:44:26 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Kalorian wrote:
I think many are forgetting where eve is heading storyline wise.

I've ready many posts about the faction standings no longer being taken into account being "game breaking" or "taking away from the immersion"

Remember capsuleers have defied the empire factions and are starting to do their own thing. This is another step in that direction in which the empire rules no longer matter.

Not necessarily agreeing with the stacking bonuses and mass components needed. I think the POS UI changes should've come first then have the ability similar to Outposts and install upgrades instead of having a ton of items floating around in space. Or having the POS work like ship fitting works to allow easier configuration and management of the POS. I can see steps going towards that direction just wonder of this 'enhancement' / change was a little cart before the horse.

Being a past industrialist I can agree with some of the insight and concerns brought up in regards to high sec industrialists. You have a good portion of your play base that just wants to run missions and or build something from the ground up. This puts more emphasis in high sec wars for the chances to get shiny BPO drops from POS bashing rather than fixing 0.0 sov mechanics and getting the fights out in lawless space. Empire space, even with the story line / developmental change should still be relatively safe for those that choose to play this game on a casual level.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out post-crius.


Those high sec players that you describe, particularly those liked to dabble in industry, are finished. Sure, they can make some product at who knows what cost, but there is zero chance of them being competitive with null sec or low sec hard core players.

All in favour of the "play with lots of alts, or die" trend.


How does something that is produced in Null and consumed in Null affect the production of High Sec? If you build something in Null you still have to get it to Jita to sell it, adding transportation cost and effort. Those few %s of advantage they have are quickly negated by transport cost.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums