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A message regarding reported layoffs at CCP

First post First post First post
Author
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#301 - 2014-06-15 12:19:52 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:

The irony here is less than a month before being let go, CCP thought enough of his vital role within eve that they gave him the developer spotlight!

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/developer-spotlight-xhagen/

Somehow he became non essential three weeks later. :p

CCP: "Hey players! This is Xhagan! He is very very important and you should all love him and hug him and call him George!"

"OK thats enough of that! Say goodbye to Xhagan! And please return the lollipop we gave you as well!"


I hope their top management had done some damage controls by holding meetings to discuss layoffs with employees. Assure the value of remaining employees to the company. Assure employee's future with the company.

Good luck with that. Who the hell would believe any of this?

My buddy at work was presented with his 15 year pin, a nice plaque and a handshake from the Company President.

4 days later he got his lay off notice along with 40 others.... LOL...
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#302 - 2014-06-15 23:56:40 UTC
Just a reminder, this is all speculation until June's new financials. But I have the feeling this thread, or one like it, will double in size in the first 24.
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#303 - 2014-06-16 09:19:32 UTC
Luca Lure wrote:
Othran wrote:
The Guardian article is spot on the money - its a description of a Scandinavian management culture which permits no dissent or criticism of management, and like the vast majority of Scandinavian companies that culture fails once they expand beyond their own country.


Like Nokia, IKEA and Volvo.


How are those SAAB shares doing? Big smile

@Thread: Arguing about whether or not a Valkyrie is a sim or a FPS? does it really matter ?

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#304 - 2014-06-16 23:41:31 UTC
Domina Trix wrote:

Arguing about whether or not a Valkyrie is a sim or a FPS? does it really matter ?


Because until the 6 month financials come out everyone is just speculating.

Speculating leads to shitposting, shitposting leads to trolling, trolling leads to thread lock.


Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#305 - 2014-06-17 10:02:07 UTC
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:


Another instance: think about how wardecs work. Through wardecs, PvPrs can easily and risklessly force their playstyle on PvErs at any time. But they never risk being forced to PvE when PvErs fight back. The very idea looks silly, right? Yet this is how every year, thousands of players are driven out of the game.



Bullshit, how do you think we make the money for the several billions of isk we need to pay to get those war decs every week? We do economical and non pew stuff so that we can pew pew. The carebears on other side want to not have to do pew pew to be able to do their stuff. Your understandign of the double standard is reversed!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#306 - 2014-06-17 10:05:48 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:


Another instance: think about how wardecs work. Through wardecs, PvPrs can easily and risklessly force their playstyle on PvErs at any time. But they never risk being forced to PvE when PvErs fight back. The very idea looks silly, right? Yet this is how every year, thousands of players are driven out of the game.



Bullshit, how do you think we make the money for the several billions of isk we need to pay to get those war decs every week? We do economical and non pew stuff so that we can pew pew. The carebears on other side want to not have to do pew pew to be able to do their stuff. Your understandign of the double standard is reversed!


Fiction:

PvP Corp vs PvE Corp for purposes of griefery and tears

Reality:

PvP Corp supported by PvE Corp vs PvE corp for purposes of reducing competition, increasing profit and enjoying gameplay.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Neesa Corrinne
Nyx Legion..
Breakpoint.
#307 - 2014-06-17 19:18:38 UTC
A thread about suicide ganking freighters has received more replies than this one.

The apathy is strong with the remaining player base.

I guess suicide ganking has more... Pshhhhh.
Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#308 - 2014-06-17 20:40:07 UTC
Neesa Corrinne wrote:
A thread about suicide ganking freighters has received more replies than this one.

The apathy is strong with the remaining player base.

I guess suicide ganking has more... Pshhhhh.


Arguably, a thread about things happening in the game will mean more to players who are actually playing the game than a thread about the developer's staffing choices. While CCP's layoffs are regrettable, this is as it should be.
Tilly Delnero
Doomheim
#309 - 2014-06-17 22:00:24 UTC
Neesa Corrinne wrote:
A thread about suicide ganking freighters has received more replies than this one.

The apathy is strong with the remaining player base.

I guess suicide ganking has more... Pshhhhh.

Unfortunately a lot of people only take to the forums to vent or chestbeat due to something that happened to them in the game. If I wasn't skimming the forums out of boredom, I would never have even known about the layoffs. I honestly hope everyone involved land on their feet and are sucessful in their future enterprises.

With regard to WoD, I was really looking forward to that game as I grew up RPing in that setting with Vampire and Wraith. But to be honest, with CCP's screwing the pooch on Ambulation/Incarna (which I also was extremely excited about) I can't say with any honesty I'm surprised.
Pj Harvey
Red DUST Industries.
#310 - 2014-06-18 01:27:20 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Just a reminder, this is all speculation until June's new financials. But I have the feeling this thread, or one like it, will double in size in the first 24.


No it won't. Nobody cares apparently.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#311 - 2014-06-18 02:27:45 UTC
Good luck to all the duders losing their jobs, and indeed those staying at CCP.

Business is all fun and games until some c*nt puts a hotel on Mayfair...
Xenuria
#312 - 2014-06-19 00:33:20 UTC
if CCP needs money so badly that they would cut all these jobs, how then can we as the player base help?

Can we donate money directly to CCP?
How much money spent on PLEX goes to the costs that CCP now has to deal with?
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#313 - 2014-06-19 02:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Companies have control over their payroll.

When "crunch time" comes, usually because a product fails to meet market expectations or a product just doesn't make it out of development, a company exercises that control.

We've seen the layoffs. The rest is still speculation.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#314 - 2014-06-19 08:34:28 UTC
Pj Harvey wrote:
Nobody cares


Correctamundo!

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Khadanne
Perkone
Caldari State
#315 - 2014-06-19 13:16:04 UTC
Terranid Meester wrote:
Get rid of some of the executives.

What value for money and for CCP can they provide given their obvious failures?


THIS
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#316 - 2014-06-19 17:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Abernathy
You kids don't get the new business model do you?

You milk the cow until it falls over dead, then you take a couple years off with the money you made.

Rinse and repeat. Lol

Oh, almost forgot...

Another successful expansion? http://eve-offline.net

"Fighting CCD since 2139"

Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#317 - 2014-06-19 20:08:14 UTC
Thomas Abernathy wrote:
You kids don't get the new business model do you?

You milk the cow until it falls over dead, then you take a couple years off with the money you made.

Rinse and repeat. Lol

Oh, almost forgot...

Another successful expansion? http://eve-offline.net


I think that the stakes are on Crius and the industry rework. But that's not an attempt to increase PCU, actually, jsut a necessary step down the road to the next Jesus feature, coming in 2015 or whenever it's done.

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.

Maz Ngomo
#318 - 2014-06-19 21:34:53 UTC
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:

I think that the stakes are on Crius and the industry rework. But that's not an attempt to increase PCU, actually, jsut a necessary step down the road to the next Jesus feature, coming in 2015 or whenever it's done.

There will be no more 'Jesus features'. CCP have stated as such and CCP never lie.

Of course, there will bo no more 'Interesting features' either, and the 'Innovative features' have had to be delayed until 2025 due to code spaghetti and API issues or something.
Serene Repose
#319 - 2014-06-19 22:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
I'm happy to "discuss" this. I'd preface my remarks with the observation that, given CCP's descent into the abyss of corporate mentality, even sending a Dev here to post this as a sort of "mea culpa" reeks of deception.

I've been saying for four years now this corporation has lost its ever-lovin' mind. The Aura (reference intended) with which we began has slowly spoiled over time. You can track the disappearance of the original spirit, the generation of the present one and Hilmar's ego expansion on the same graph. Many is the time I likened the management of CCP to little boys who never quite left daddy's garage. I wasn't joking. I thought it was the most appropriate analogy, and still do.

I lifted some quotes from articles in major news organs to amplify and vicariously endorse my assessment:

"Without the time or resources to properly do so, many things were left half-delivered, to be iterated upon later -- which never happened. CCP has an extensive track record of promising to return to features and never doing so."

This reminds me so much of what I used to say to my son when he was a boy growing up. You dads out there know what I mean. You young men should recall having heard such things said to you as you matured. Thing is, this is being said about full-grown men engaged in what we're supposed to consider to be "serious business."

"Worst of all, according to Nick Blood (a former CCP dev and GM), the entire point of the expansion (walking around in space stations) was let down by the Reykjavic office's art team. It took them nearly the entire development time to create one faction's captain's quarters. Yet again, WoD team was asked to crossover in order to bail out an EVE expansion."

Rob Peter to pay Paul long enough and they both go broke. Anyone with credible management experience KNOWS what's behind this sort of thing. Invariably it's symptomatic of biting off more than one can chew, or, the eyes too big for the stomach. Again, admonitions that belong in child-rearing, not serious corporate management.

However, is there evidence other than this mistake made in trying to start a new enterprise? Yeah, there was that expansion - which was in itself a disaster within an already up and running enterprise. There was a PLAYER RIOT? After denying there was a problem, and seeing subscriptions plummet, CCP offers an apology:

"Eventually CEO Hilmar Veigar Pétursson issued an apology to players...[he] didn't actually write.... He was either so out of touch, so arrogant (or perhaps both) that he couldn't find the words to say himself."

How like them. How their reputation fell from soaring heights through the drainpipe in the basement floor. And, of course, the "sister" project to EVE, DUST 514, allegedly an accompaniment to EVE but actually a project being piggy-backed off EVE:

"When Dust 514 was finally released...reviews generally praised the concept, but savaged the well below par execution.
It flopped."

How did a group of guys with such an auspicious and audacious start manage to hurl themselves into the banal and pedestrian mentality of the corporation? Let this be a lesson to you young'uns out there. You can't get good fruit from a bad tree. Once the tempted take a bite of the poisoned apple, the result is always the same. It's just sad, and a shame to see it happen to the ones we once loved so dearly.

Finally. This is the second layoff in four years. The irony of sending to the unemployment line fifty loyal troops the same DAY the state of Georgia enacts a tax break for game developers to foster growth in the industry - GEORGIA of all places???? I just can't believe my eyes. I need a stiff drink, and quit drinking likker fifteen years ago.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Tilly Delnero
Doomheim
#320 - 2014-06-19 23:02:15 UTC
Well to be fair CCP Goliath is a community manager so it's his job to tell people about this kind of situation, I don't see any issue with that. He may also have been affected by this personally.

With regard to Hilmar's 'ego' I can honestly say that, having watched a lot of fanfests over the years, that's one thing I truly miss about him. Years ago he had this almost boyish enthusiasm about him regarding EVE and what he wanted it to go, he had an idea and an amazing ability to get people excited about that vision. Almost a cult-like personality. I always found myself grinning when he came on stage. He could jokingly suggest an invasion of the US with nothing but pitchforks and broken beer bottles and I'd have jumped up and screamed, 'F-YEAH!'

Nowadays he seems like a shell of his former self, almost like the bullied boy in school who doesn't dare to speak his mind anymore because he's afraid of what the other kids might do to him. Unfortunately he's given the power to the overly vocal and antagonistic EVE players and in the process lost his 'vision'. We need to remember that it was CCP's (and Hilmar's) ideas and sheer bloody-mindedness that built EVE from nothing and kept it unique from all the other MMOs that came out and died in the meantime.

Now I'm not saying the business side of the company has been sensible, or even competent in some cases because there have been some genuinely 'WTF?' moments in recent years. But CCP, as with all companies, need to make mistakes and learn if they are to improve. The things I've been frustrated by have been the 'broken promises', and I just wish CCP as a whole would keep certain ideas under wraps until they are verified to be workable and will definitely be implemented rather than shown in press releases or at fanfest and then never seen again.

Besides all that, I can't really form a real opinion on the situation surrounding the layoffs because we don't have enough information. Was it poor management? Maybe. Was it a series of unfortunate and unaviodable events that culminated in the losses? Perhaps. Is this proof of falling subs that CCP can't afford to fund other projects outside of EVE? It's possible... maybe. Ugh

More info would be nice, but at the same time it's not really any of our business.